If you've had dealings with Carbon One, please read.

[Big Top GT]

Obviously, I/we aren't trying to hide anything from anyone. I've made all my personal information public and left a trail of bread crumbs directly to my door.

To clarify my involvement and position on the matter:

We're not soliciting nor accepting offers of new business from either the Lotus nor Tesla communities until we can clear the back log. (If anyone is even interested in doing business with us from that point forward.)

I currently have a capital investment approaching $5000 dollars and, like the rest of the affected parties, I expect to recoup my money.

So, while we work through the back log for you guys, we're also working on building a profitable business. (And making a living, while we're at it.) Fortunately, I don't have to rely on selling carbon parts to pay a bill, but I'm not doing this for free any more than you guys should expect to not get your parts.

While this isn't vital to my existence, I also don't have an unlimited supply of funding available to take on John's mess. I can clean it up slowly and methodically, but I simply can't afford to front the entirety of his back log without selling more product.

It's probably also worth mentioning that we haven't sold, nor taken a single dollar, from anyone. This entire first month has been dedicated to basically getting set up and getting the infrastructure put in place to make this a sustainable venture.

Seem reasonable? :smile:

As for the G3 thing; thanks for the heads up. I searched the name as thoroughly as I could, but it's a great, wide world. We'll roll with it until such a time it becomes an issue.

Once it does, we can setup a DBA (doing business as) AFDLK#W)(#LDKJSFC

Which are all COMPELTELY random keystrokes. :biggrin:

 

[dpeilow]

It does seem a bit off that when you have people waiting for parts in the Tesla / Lotus communities, you are dedicating limited production capacity to making parts for Corvettes and Mustangs on a speculative basis, when basically telling us otherwise.

That having been said; without satisfying existing orders, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable offering to sell more product, though.

It'd seem disingenuous at best and sleazy at worst

.

As for not finding the company in Salt Lake, it's the top hit on Google when you put in G3 Composites...

 

[Big Top GT]

Dude, why do my threads keep disappearing after I post them?

Getting a little annoyed here...

 

[dpeilow]

What have you posted that has since disappeared?

 

[Big Top GT]

Let me try this again:

Prior to my raising my hand and offering to make good on a situation in which I have zero responsibility, there was little to no hope of anyone getting anything from John. People can try to sue him, but there's no blood from a turnip, so to speak. So, while I do okay, I'm not in a position to drop thousands of dollars in a lump sum to fix a problem, overnight, that I didn't have a hand in creating.

With a finite financial resource, I can't think of another way to do this for you guys. So basically, if someone has a way to get all of your parts made and for me to not run out of money, I'm all ears.

I'd like to think I've been nothing but transparent about my position, but if I somehow lead anyone to believe I was going to simply open up my check book and not earn a return on my investment while I work to deliver upon the things for which a lot of you already paid, I sincerely apologize.

When I said I don't want to solicit more business as it'd be a sleazy move, I meant within the Tesla and/or Lotus community.

So, in the effort of total disclosure, in the event I wasn't clear prior to this conversation: I don't have an unlimited financial backing, but I'm going to do what I can to get everyone here their parts, even though it is absolutely not my responsibility.

It isn't going to happen over night, though. So, if you guys can bear with me, I'll do my best to make it right.

Fair enough?

 

[Big Top GT]

What have you posted that has since disappeared?

I posted a complete reply and then it disappeared. (unless I can't see it for some reason.)

 

[qwk]

You should have specified "within the tesla/lotus community" from the beggining. Since you didn't, it seems like you are hiding something thus ruining your credability. Teaming up with a known scammer also isn't going to help.

 

[ipdamages]

While I agree that it would have been better for Alan to have said "within the Tesla/Lotus community," I also think that people should be realistic and reasonable insomuch as Alan is creating an outcome that makes the people in the Tesla community with unfulfilled past orders with Carbon One better off than where they would have been without him. That seems irrefutable. Is it reasonable to expect him to do that with all of his effort, time and money, such that he is not keeping the lights on? I say no. While I suppose it is possible to sink tens of thousands of dollars into building the parts to fulfill all of the past Carbon One orders before seeing any revenue to pay for the raw materials that are required to make the parts for people in this community, I don't think that's realistic.

All that said, I agree that it is easy to say "Aha!" It is also easy to feel misled, because I agree that obviously the pace of progress on Tesla parts at G3 will be slower with John working on building parts for others. And I agree that the exclusion of "within the Tesla/Lotus community" does materially alter what we should expect. But I still say we are better off with Alan on the scene, and by the time we are in a position to make future purchase decisions we will have a lot more data on which to base these evaluations. For now I suggest that this is all found money/parts for our community and the past victims.

As for trademark registrations and infringement, while the normal protocol is for a trademark owner to send a cease and desist letter and/or seek an injunction, I'm sure the last thing anyone wants is to incur damages or have a finding of willfulness, treble damages, or a requirement to pay the plaintiff's attorney fees. The point is that this is not an issue to just disregard.

My $0.02...

 

[dpeilow]

Well, ultimately there is a bunch of money (and it seems parts) that was sent to John. He should have that to buy the raw materials to fulfil those orders or pay those creditors back. It's not like there are lots of staff to pay and other overheads. When you take over a failing business, one of the costs you incur is taking on its debt.

 

[ipdamages]

I have no dog in this fight, but it seems that:

a) John spent that deposit money long ago, so be angry at John if you like, but I didn't get the impression John was contributing working capital. Rather, Alan moved him down there, presumably on his nickel. So yes, I think Alan is fronting the money to build parts.

b) I don't think Alan is taking over Carbon One. He hired John. He is using John's expertise. I don't see how there is any successor liability or any fraudulent conveyance here, nor any alter ego, assuming he didn't get Carbon One assets. So no, he wouldn't be liable for Carbon One/John debts. Even if he did get some assets (e.g., molds) that likely wouldn't be dispositive if there wasn't any impairment of the likelihood of someone getting parts. And it seems that things were pretty grim, so it would be hard to argue that people would have gotten parts but now will not.

 

[doug]

within the tesla/lotus community

I'm still left wondering about all the other car communities over the years that never got parts nor refunds. Was Carbon One (or any of the previous iterations/aliases) ever set up as an LLC or some such? Did he ever file for bankruptcy protection? Was there ever any civil or criminal action taken?

I'm just curious what makes "the Tesla/Lotus community" eligible for long promised parts and not the other folks.

 

[benji4]

I think that Alan is being much more than fair here. He has generously offered to take on Carbon One's backlog, but he certainly has no obligation to do that so he deserves a lot more consideration and understanding than some people are giving him here. How can anyone expect that he does no other business than working on Carbon One's backlog? He didn't mean he was not going to do any other business whatsoever while working on the backlog, that is just absurd to think that. It should be obvious whether he stated it explicitly or not, because like all of us he needs to make money to earn a living or he and his business will die. Just think about it, if he does no other business than the backlog, how long do you think he'll be in business for? Not very long at all. He absolutely needs to work on other business lines at the same time so that his company can be strong enough to survive and actually take care of the backlog.

Also, please note that he told everyone plainly and clearly that he would be working with John Perez. If he had any hidden agenda whatsoever why would he have done that? He has been completely up front and transparent about all of this. I for one really appreciate what he is trying to do here and I understand completely why he is a bit upset at some of the attitudes here. Let's not unfairly saddle him with Carbon One's baggage. Carbon One is gone now. Rest in peace. Anyway, the good news is that my air vents are on the way, and people should be seeing door sills delivered very soon. Had Alan not stepped in here, none of it would have been possible. He really created something out of nothing here and he has my complete support for what he's doing.

 

[felixtb]

I second that! why are we at all questioning if he is taking up all the problems that john perez has put himself into. that has nothing to do with him. he is acting as a super standup guy by coming to us. that he is also taking on seemingly anyone that comes to him and complains about john's previous dealings, is even more standup. so stop complaining. and just be happy that he has taken on john perez and realizes his potential as a CF guy but also his total lack of business acumen. let's just wait patiently for our stuf and let him run with it.

 

[doug]

Who's complaining? I think it's only prudent to raise such issues. It is certainly brave and generous of Alan to help John Perez with his backlog. But I don't think it's fair to say Carbon One is gone, just like SpawnAero or iKONA etc. is gone. John still has an ethical and financial responsibility to a lot of folks, based on the moderators' armchair research (which unfortunately came too late to prevent our members from losing money). He shouldn't be able to just change names and walk away from it, unless perhaps he filed for bankruptcy or some such.

Alan has chosen to help set things right with the Tesla and Lotus community (again why only those two?). Will John ever fulfill his obligation to all the others?

 

[dpeilow]

I think the point here is that this is a business partnership and not an employer/employee relationship. So while am not trying to take away from Alan's attempt to provide a steady hand, I think it was also a smart move to become the mouthpiece.

It is therefore not just a nice gesture that they are sorting out the mess from Carbon One - it is a surely a legal obligation. Carbon One seemingly owes thousands if not tens of tens of thousands of dollars of goods to customers. He can't just draw a line under that and start earning new revenues while saying he will fulfil those orders when he gets time.

 

[benji4]

...I don't think it's fair to say Carbon One is gone, just like SpawnAero or iKONA etc. is gone. John still has an ethical and financial to responsibility to a lot of folks, based on the moderators' armchair research (which unfortunately came too late to prevent our members from losing money). He shouldn't be able to just change names and walk away from it, unless perhaps he filed for bankruptcy or some such.

Alan has chosen to help set things right with the Tesla and Lotus community (again why only those two?). Will John ever fulfill his obligation to all the others?

John is currently working for all intensive purposes as an indentured servant until the backlog gets cleared. He realizes he has an obligation to get these orders taken care of an as you can see, that is starting to finally happen now at last after months and months of broken promises. The reason things are changing of course is that Alan has stepped in, put up some much needed cash, and is running the business end of things which John could not handle. If you look back at the tone of the posts on this thread over the past couple of days, I think you will agree that the content has been less than respectful toward Alan and what he is trying to get done here.

John didn't just change his name and walk away. His name is still John Perez and he now works with Alan, but it's not Carbon One anymore. You can't pin John's former sins on Alan, that's just not right. And sure, anybody who wants to sue John Perez can go ahead and do so, but good luck with that, it would be a total waste of time. Alan didn't have to say upfront that he was working with John, he didn't have to say he would take care of the backlog, and basically he owes nothing to anyone here. But in order to make things right, he's agreed to the best of his ability to get the backlog done and take this on. Hats off to him for that.

As far as other forums than Tesla and Lotus are concerned, that's Alan's call as well. If and when he wants to share what he'll do about other forums, he can decide that. If for example, Alan has decided strategically that he wants to take care of these two first, then so be it, again that's his call. However, if he leaves people on other forums out in the dark, it's obvious what would happen -- they'd slam him all over the web and turn G3 Composites into another Carbon One. No place to hide on the internet and by being transparent and forthcoming you can see he is not trying to hide, and neither is John Perez. Alan understands all of this, and he knows the only way to get this business right is to make his customers happy. Sometimes people actually are honest and try to do the right thing. This seems to me to one of those times. Let's get behind Alan and give him support rather than doubting him and questioning him. He just started for goodness sake, and he deserves much more than the lukewarm reception he received on some of the posts in this thread.

 

[benji4]

It is therefore not just a nice gesture that they are sorting out the mess from Carbon One - it is a surely a legal obligation. Carbon One seemingly owes thousands if not tens of tens of thousands of dollars of goods to customers. He can't just draw a line under that and start earning new revenues while saying he will fulfil those orders when he gets time.

First of all, he's not just drawing a line under that backlog and saying he is going to get to it when he has time. They are actively producing Telsa parts right now in order to get the backlog cleared, albeit slower than Alan had hoped. The door sill molds John brought along were cracked, they needed to make brand new ones, they needed to order a whole batch of new materials that were late, etc., etc. On top of that, Alan is learning now that this stuff is time consuming to make and it's going to take some time to get it worked out. But that kind of stuff always happens when a new business starts up.

Anyway, the air vents are done and ready to ship, and door sills are close to production now, probably it will start within days. And do you see Alan taking any orders here for new stuff? No, you don't. Until the backlog is cleared, you won't see another part sold here. But do you think it's fair that you can tell him not to do any other work than the backlog John brought along with him? No way, that's not way to run a business and nobody has the right to tell Alan how to run things.

 

[AnOutsider]

Anyway, the air vents are done and ready to ship, and door sills are close to production now, probably it will start within days. And do you see Alan taking any orders here for new stuff? No, you don't. Until the backlog is cleared, you won't see another part sold here. But do you think it's fair that you can tell him not to do any other work than the backlog John brought along with him? No way, that's not way to run a business and nobody has the right to tell Alan how to run things.

I didn't see anyone say that, they said it was a bit disingenuous to state he wasn't when he clearly is. I have no horse in this race, but seeing this fiasco and others like it (and I for one, DID read his posts as they were cleaning up the backlog, THEN moving on to new orders), I can say its always smart to be cautious - and that's what these guys are going. They're asking questions and trying to keep things clear. It's no more fair for you to chastise them for it than them to chastise you for being far too trusting giving the circumstances.

The questions have been raised, and Alan answered them. Whether they were satisfactory or not, all that can be done is to wait and see if/how/when they make good on their promises.

 

[Big Top GT]

I'm a little put off by what are starting to feel like attacks on my person by those who have done zero business with John Perez.

Also, since everyone is pretending that I never offered to take care of the entirety of his back log, please go REREAD my very first post in this thread

Maybe it'd be helpful for you to start at the bottom of that thread and read up.

I'll be back later...

 

[benji4]

I didn't see anyone say that, they said it was a bit disingenuous to state he wasn't when he clearly is. I have no horse in this race, but seeing this fiasco and others like it (and I for one, DID read his posts as they were cleaning up the backlog, THEN moving on to new orders), I can say its always smart to be cautious - and that's what these guys are going. They're asking questions and trying to keep things clear. It's no more fair for you to chastise them for it than them to chastise you for being far too trusting giving the circumstances.

The questions have been raised, and Alan answered them. Whether they were satisfactory or not, all that can be done is to wait and see if/how/when they make good on their promises.

Point taken, I didn't mean to chastise them. My apologies if that's the way it came off. Let me make the point that John and Allen are trying to have a number of parts going at the same time. While they work on Mustang door sills, they'll have a couple sets of Roadster sills curing, etc. They need to work smartly and efficiently in order to make this all work. Give them some time and let's see what happens to the backlog, that's when we'll know for sure if this is going to work out. It's much better to err on the side of being "too trusting" then doubting people and their motives all the time. Maybe that's just the way I am, but I've built a successful business for myself based on that premise. I trust people and they trust me. Sure, I get burned now and then, but on aggregate it all seems to work out better trusting people and keeping an open mind about things.