Is Navigate on autoPilot supposed to slow down on a Highway Exchanges

[mswlogo]

I swear when NoA first came out that if I was in the right most lane (suggested earlier by NoA) for an Exit Ramp it would slow down and take the ramp at a reasonable speed and speed up coming out of the ramp. It was always hit or miss. Many times it would abort out. But occasionally it worked impressively good.

Lately it never works, it rarely slows down approaching the ramp and tries to take the ramp way to fast.

Was it ever supposed to do this or not? It may have been either cars ahead of me that it was following or that ramp was "designated" at low speed/noNoA and was really slowing down for that reason. And I had a false impression that it was NoA doing it all.
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What's NoA supposed to do?

And if NoA doesn't do that. All NoA feels like, is "Lane Suggestion" added to AP (which already knew how to change lanes).

 

[Daniel in SD]

The one time I used it there was a huge line of cars behind me on the exit because it was going so painfully slow. I guess I should try to use it again and see.

 

[swaltner]

Currently, NoA, which is only available on limited access highways, does three things:

• Suggest lane changes in and out of the passing lane due to slower moving traffic (confirmation required)
• Suggest lane changes for highway interchanges to follow current route (confirmation required)
• Automatically turn on signal and take exit ramp off the highway coming to a stop at the end of the ramp. For these, I don’t get it to work when there is an exit lane that you need to shift over into, only when the exit ramp diverges right off the outside lane.

This is the type of exit ramp that it seems to automatically work on.

I’ve never seen it automatically make a lane change to switch from one highway to another.

Future updates should allow you to configure to auto-change without confirmation, but I won’t be activating that feature right away.

TACC will automatically slow down if it determines that the curve ahead is too tight for your current speed. This is not tied to either the NoA or autosteer features. If no one is behind me, I generally let it do its thing. If people are behind me, I generally press the accelerator pedal to keep the speed up. It’s also not very smooth on the speed adjustments, so I sometimes override it when I have a passenger.

 

[ewoodrick]

I swear when NoA first came out that if I was in the right most lane (suggested earlier by NoA) for an Exit Ramp it would slow down and take the ramp at a reasonable speed and speed up coming out of the ramp. It was always hit or miss. Many times it would abort out. But occasionally it worked impressively good.

Lately it never works, it rarely slows down approaching the ramp and tries to take the ramp way to fast.

Was it ever supposed to do this or not? It may have been either cars ahead of me that it was following or that ramp was "designated" at low speed/noNoA and was really slowing down for that reason. And I had a false impression that it was NoA doing it all.
​

What's NoA supposed to do?

And if NoA doesn't do that. All NoA feels like, is "Lane Suggestion" added to AP (which already knew how to change lanes).

The ramps are where you are supposed to slow down, not the highway. That then allows the highway traffic to continue at normal speed.

 

[mswlogo]

Currently, NoA, which is only available on limited access highways, does three things:

• Suggest lane changes in and out of the passing lane due to slower moving traffic (confirmation required)
• Suggest lane changes for highway interchanges to follow current route (confirmation required)
• Automatically turn on signal and take exit ramp off the highway coming to a stop at the end of the ramp. For these, I don’t get it to work when there is an exit lane that you need to shift over into, only when the exit ramp diverges right off the outside lane.

This is the type of exit ramp that it seems to automatically work on.

I’ve never seen it automatically make a lane change to switch from one highway to another.

Future updates should allow you to configure to auto-change without confirmation, but I won’t be activating that feature right away.

TACC will automatically slow down if it determines that the curve ahead is too tight for your current speed. This is not tied to either the NoA or autosteer features. If no one is behind me, I generally let it do its thing. If people are behind me, I generally press the accelerator pedal to keep the speed up. It’s also not very smooth on the speed adjustments, so I sometimes override it when I have a passenger.

Are you talking about the "exit" your already on in that photo and goes straight ahead or it will properly take the smaller exit on the right.

I can believe a "fork" could work (as long as you stay away from lanes adjacent to the "divider"). But not an "Exit Ramp".
Not an Exit to another Highway or an Exit that takes you off the highway.

It used to slow down (for what ever reason, both approaching it and while on the ramp). Lately it's done that horribly.
It hits the exit way to fast and takes the ramp to fast, so I end up canceling out before I give it a chance to possibly correct itself.

I think it did the right thing ONCE, like back in January?

 

[mswlogo]

Update on 2019.8.5

Still not using exit ramp speeds.

Sometimes when it switches to the exit lane it does slow down when in exit lane before the ramp (sometimes rather late). But then once on the ramp itself it speeds up to highway speed.

Sometimes it falls out of NoA in the middle of the ramp even though both highways I’m getting off and on are NoA supported.

Not sure if it’s map errors/omissions,NoA bugs or simply not implemented yet.

What’s frustrating is Elon portrays NoA handling highway exchanges, you just need to keep your hand on the wheel. I find it’s not even close (separate from the obvious complexity of merging over to the exit in busy conditions, which we know is hard and probably requires HW3)

I think we’ve all seen the sketchy merges to over to the exit lane and realize how complex it can be and how impressive NoA can be sometimes.

But how hard is it to slow down to exit ramp speed while on the ramp. Even if the map is missing data how hard is it to have a backup calculation based on gforce or radius or do something dumb like half the highway speed. It’s taking 30 mph ramps at 65 mph !!!

Also don’t fool yourself into thinking it does handle it if your right behind someone else. Because in that case it’s using ACC and speed is regulated by the moving obstacle in front of you.

Will try 2012.12.1 tonight. I don’t expect any difference.

Do folks believe it generally does use exit ramp speeds or not?

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Do folks believe it generally does use exit ramp speeds or not?

Mine certainly does. The TACC speed setpoint changes by itself during the entire exit maneuver to something appropriate for the curve.

As an example, if I go from one freeway to another on an elevated ramp, the TACC setpoint will go from 72 MPH (my setpoint) down to 65 after it gets onto the initial straight portion of the ramp (called the distributor section), drop the setpoint down to 60, then 55, then 50 as it takes the curve, goes back to 55, then 60, then 65 on the final straight portion of the ramp (called the collector section), then merge onto the new freeway, then once established will go back to 72.

Each time the setpoint changes, the car drops speed or accelerates to that setpoint. The exception is that there is additional logic in there that if the turn rate is too high, the car will further drop speed even under the setpoint.

If yours isn't doing this for one ramp in particular, then that's likely a mapping error. If your car never does this on any freeway ramp, then something's wrong with your hardware.

 

[mswlogo]

Mine certainly does. The TACC speed setpoint changes by itself during the entire exit maneuver to something appropriate for the curve.

As an example, if I go from one freeway to another on an elevated ramp, the TACC setpoint will go from 72 MPH (my setpoint) down to 65 after it gets onto the initial straight portion of the ramp (called the distributor section), drop the setpoint down to 60, then 55, then 50 as it takes the curve, goes back to 55, then 60, then 65 on the final straight portion of the ramp (called the collector section), then merge onto the new freeway, then once established will go back to 72.

Each time the setpoint changes, the car drops speed or accelerates to that setpoint. The exception is that there is additional logic in there that if the turn rate is too high, the car will further drop speed even under the setpoint.

If yours isn't doing this for one ramp in particular, then that's likely a mapping error. If your car never does this on any freeway ramp, then something's wrong with your hardware.

Mine actually did slow down on a ramp tonight. But on a another ramp it didn’t. It must be a map error on that one. It certainly is not Detecting to high a turn rate. It tries to take a 30 mph ramp at 60 mph.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Latest manual from December 20th, 2018, admittedly for TACC, but I think it may capture the behavior on NoA as well (since we're talking about just the speed here...). It's not clear to me that the set speed override will function at all the same in NoA mode, though, and I have limited experience with it (the behavior in the NoA situation is not mentioned in the manual as far as I can tell).

The times I have used it, generally I feel that the car is going too slow on the interchanges and override with the accelerator (hoping that it will speed up other Tesla vehicles in the future - see below!). To me it seems like the other MA drivers are just too fast for you.


"When enabled while on a highway interchange or off-ramp, Traffic-Aware Cruise Control may reduce your set speed in 5 mph (5 km/h) increments – to as slow as 25 mph (40 km/h) – to better match the reported speeds of other Tesla vehicles that have driven at that specific location. To override this and continue cruising at your set speed, tap the accelerator pedal or touch the plus (+) or minus (-) button on the touchscreen. The new set speed is maintained for the duration of the interchange or off-ramp (unless you override it or cancel Traffic-Aware Cruise Control). After the interchange or off-ramp, the set speed may revert or change as necessary based on the new location. For example, if you merged onto a different highway, the set speed reverts back to the set speed that was in use before driving on the interchange.

Warning: In some cases (such as having insufficient data), Traffic-Aware Cruise Control may not automatically reduce the set speed on the highway interchange or off-ramp. Do not rely on Traffic-Aware Cruise Control to determine an appropriate driving speed. Tesla recommends driving at a speed that is safe for road conditions and within posted speed limits."

 

[mswlogo]

Latest manual from December 20th, 2018, admittedly for TACC, but I think it may capture the behavior on NoA as well (since we're talking about just the speed here...). It's not clear to me that the set speed override will function at all the same in NoA mode, though, and I have limited experience with it (the behavior in the NoA situation is not mentioned in the manual as far as I can tell).

The times I have used it, generally I feel that the car is going too slow on the interchanges and override with the accelerator (hoping that it will speed up other Tesla vehicles in the future - see below!). To me it seems like the other MA drivers are just too fast for you.


"When enabled while on a highway interchange or off-ramp, Traffic-Aware Cruise Control may reduce your set speed in 5 mph (5 km/h) increments – to as slow as 25 mph (40 km/h) – to better match the reported speeds of other Tesla vehicles that have driven at that specific location. To override this and continue cruising at your set speed, tap the accelerator pedal or touch the plus (+) or minus (-) button on the touchscreen. The new set speed is maintained for the duration of the interchange or off-ramp (unless you override it or cancel Traffic-Aware Cruise Control). After the interchange or off-ramp, the set speed may revert or change as necessary based on the new location. For example, if you merged onto a different highway, the set speed reverts back to the set speed that was in use before driving on the interchange.

Warning: In some cases (such as having insufficient data), Traffic-Aware Cruise Control may not automatically reduce the set speed on the highway interchange or off-ramp. Do not rely on Traffic-Aware Cruise Control to determine an appropriate driving speed. Tesla recommends driving at a speed that is safe for road conditions and within posted speed limits."

There is no way other cars can take this 30 MPH Ramp at 60. In the Model 3 I could probably do it at 50 (but a "normal" car could not).
I'd probably comfortably do it at 40 MPH.

I kind of thought NoA (especially no confirmation NoA) would use the same source they use for Posted Speed Limit on the highway. Which is not always perfect but good 98% of the time. If they are relying on other Tesla cars to obtain that data perhaps it just has not learned that yet.

And it's kind of catch 22. If everyone is using NoA who is the reference?

When it does slow down, it was right at 30 MPH and felt slow. And it was a little wobbly going around the bend.

If you have to keep changing speeds for ramps, it would be just as easy (if not easier) to cancel and resume. Which is what I have been doing unless I'm testing how well a new release is doing.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Mine actually did slow down on a ramp tonight. But on a another ramp it didn’t. It must be a map error on that one. It certainly is not Detecting to high a turn rate. It tries to take a 30 mph ramp at 60 mph.

It's normally fine to take a 30mph ramp (recommended yellow limit I assume?) at 60mph. Though I would not advise it under NoA control!

In the Model 3 I could probably do it at 50 (but a "normal" car could not).
I'd probably comfortably do it 40 MPH.

If it's a yellow 30mph sign, I am fairly sure it is possible to go around it at 60mph in a Model 3, with PS4S and dry conditions, anyway. Not saying it would be relaxing, though. Who knows, though; I don't know this ramp you are speaking of specifically - I am only speaking in general terms!

In general I do feel that I have to baby the speed on ramps. Lightly turning ramps I feel it is too slow, and tightly turning ramps I am not comfortable trusting it at the speed it is doing - though if I were in control I would have no problem going much faster. I just don't trust these computer thingies.

 

[mswlogo]

It's normally fine to take a 30mph ramp (recommended yellow limit I assume?) at 60mph. Though I would not advise it under NoA control!



If it's a yellow 30mph sign, I am fairly sure it is possible to go around it at 60mph, with PS4S and dry conditions, anyway. Not saying it would be relaxing, though. Who knows, though; I don't know this ramp you are speaking of specifically - I am only speaking in general terms!

In general I do feel that I have to baby the speed on ramps. Lightly turning ramps I feel it is too slow, and tightly turning ramps I am not comfortable trusting it at the speed it is doing - though if I were in control I would have no problem going much faster. I just don't trust these computer thingies.

Maybe for you it's fine, it is not "normal" to hit a 30 mph (yes yellow sign) at 60 mph. Yes there are some you might. But if it's properly set at say 30, 45 mph might be fine, but not 60 mph. My passenger would be in my lap if I did.

That's like saying if the highway speed is 65 MPH then a 130 MPH is "normal".

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

it is not "normal" to hit a 30 mph (yes yellow sign) at 60 mph

Definitely "normally" is not the criteria one would want to use, to just plunge into every 30mph turn sight unseen at 60mph. I recommend a few trial runs until a comfortable speed is determined first, for sure.

 

[mswlogo]

Definitely "normally" is not the criteria one would want to use, to just plunge into every 30mph turn sight unseen at 60mph. I recommend a few trial runs until a comfortable speed is determined first, for sure.

I use this ramp all the time. I know it. I try to let the car handle, just to how it does. It is dangerously too fast and I have to abort.
When it does seem to "have control" it's exact the ramp speed (yellow sign).

How I would personally choose drive it (speed wise), is moot.

I'm just chalking it up to a map error (or lack of learned data for Tesla, which is essentially the same thing)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I use this ramp all the time. I know it. I try to let the car handle, just to how it does. It is dangerously too fast and I have to abort.
When it does seem to "have control" it's exact the ramp speed (yellow sign).

How I would personally choose drive it (speed wise), is moot.

I'm just chalking it up to a map error (or lack of learned data for Tesla, which essentially the same thing)

From what you're saying, it sounds like sometimes it picks an appropriate speed and sometimes does not, which is odd.

 

[mikef137]

I use this ramp all the time. I know it. I try to let the car handle, just to how it does. It is dangerously too fast and I have to abort.
When it does seem to "have control" it's exact the ramp speed (yellow sign).

How I would personally choose drive it (speed wise), is moot.

I'm just chalking it up to a map error (or lack of learned data for Tesla, which is essentially the same thing)

I have also experienced NoA attempting to take exits which would have been impossible at NoA speed.

There are many ramps in MA that can be quite tight. Some are as described above with two straight sections connected by a curve in the middle, but many are straight into a curve. To make matters worse, most are not constant radius, they decrease and or increase in radius throughout the exit.

I am also concerned about the initial turn into the exit lane. Several times I am fairly certain it would have put me into the guardrail if I had let it complete the maneuver.

I am impressed with the progress of autopilot and look forward to future releases.