Full FSD Free Trial: Why I'd never buy it . . . ever.

[CarGo]

FSD rant aside Is that something to be proud of? Maybe don’t drive like a twat on a public road ?

First thing I thought was....DBAG!!!

 

[beatle]

You are mixing apples and oranges.

The new speed control is what is handling the speed, it's brand new and needs some tuning. Previously and if you turn it off, the car follows too closely. AT 75 mph, it stays back maybe 3 car lengths, way too short.

And I'm sorry, but leaving enough space for a bus to pull in front of you tends to be the appropriate distance. Sure, it may not be optimal for rush hour driving, but it is the right distance. But setting the driving style to aggressive can fis this a little.

But, the ironic thing is that you are complaining about the speed of the vehicle, not the driving. Speed may have been a little better in some cases in previous versions, but driving was far from as good as it is today.
If speed and following distance is all that you are complaining about then the Engineers are having a huge celebration! Speed and gap are easy.

I'm not complaining about the speed. It could be better, sure, but it's not the main fault. Speed is relative to what traffic is doing, and it's the chief benefit of TACC.

If speed and gap is easy, it is a shame they are sacrificing it for whatever they're doing now. A bus length is not the "right" following distance. Nobody drives like that, especially around here, and you'll be overtaken on the right and honked at for leaving such a gap.

 

[Togg]

They pushed their flaky FSD free trial onto my Y. I don't want it! I won't even try it, not even once! And here is why:

I'm all for hi tech, but that's not what Tesla is delivering. They are delivering a lie. (And a lie is an insult that says that they think I'm too stupid to know better.)

Autopilot, with it's sudden unexpected and for no reason hard-scary-ass-breaking, that some call phantom, but I call bullshit-breaking. If they can't even get simple reliable cruse control working on my $65k car, then I don't want any of their crummy AI, period.

And to make matters worse, now with their recent FSD "update" (which is really a "downdate") they broke something that used to work: Now the speed limit sign on the display never shows more than 55 mph, even on 65 mph roads. ever! Now it NEVER works properly on any 65 MPH roads !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Oh yes, this makes me very angry. I feel like they broke my car with their software pushed onto it!)

Their updates are suppose to IMPROVE things, not BREAK things.!

I like / love the electric car!. But, I have started to hate how Tesla's software team is arrogant.

In regressive.

 

[comanchepilot]

FSD rant aside Is that something to be proud of? Maybe don’t drive like a twat on a public road ?

Who says you’d even notice me? Cops don’t.

 

[Bp25]

That slow acceleration and late braking behavior makes it pretty unusable in stop and go traffic, for me.

When I got my MY, I enjoyed the ability to find a gap in traffic, quickly accelerate and get into the gap if I needed to, because I was quicker than most cars. That ability slowly diminished over last two years with so many Teslas on the road. Now FSD on other people’s Teslas are giving me that ability again. I can tell who is using FSD and safety cut in front of them.

So I like FSD. I don’t have to pay for it but I still can take advantage of it.

 

[ewoodrick]

I'm not complaining about the speed. It could be better, sure, but it's not the main fault. Speed is relative to what traffic is doing, and it's the chief benefit of TACC.

If speed and gap is easy, it is a shame they are sacrificing it for whatever they're doing now. A bus length is not the "right" following distance. Nobody drives like that, especially around here, and you'll be overtaken on the right and honked at for leaving such a gap.

Yes, you are correct, a bus length isn't the right distance, it's actually much longer. How would busses or semis ever be able to move right otherwise?

Just one infographic, there are many. It's the 3 second rule.

So yes, you are following too closely and are a bad driver if you think that it is the correct distance.

 

[ewoodrick]

They pushed their flaky FSD free trial onto my Y. I don't want it! I won't even try it, not even once! And here is why:

I'm all for hi tech, but that's not what Tesla is delivering. They are delivering a lie. (And a lie is an insult that says that they think I'm too stupid to know better.)

Autopilot, with it's sudden unexpected and for no reason hard-scary-ass-breaking, that some call phantom, but I call bullshit-breaking. If they can't even get simple reliable cruse control working on my $65k car, then I don't want any of their crummy AI, period.

And to make matters worse, now with their recent FSD "update" (which is really a "downdate") they broke something that used to work: Now the speed limit sign on the display never shows more than 55 mph, even on 65 mph roads. ever! Now it NEVER works properly on any 65 MPH roads !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Oh yes, this makes me very angry. I feel like they broke my car with their software pushed onto it!)

Their updates are suppose to IMPROVE things, not BREAK things.!

I like / love the electric car!. But, I have started to hate how Tesla's software team is arrogant.

In regressive.

Could you just add "old-fart, unble to change" to your description?

You can't talk about something if you don't experience it.

 

[Raisin45567]

Never in a million years. Like many I received the free FSD trial in my 2023 Model 3 Performance. I accepted. And though I still have a few days left will not sign up for it - and - from a safety perspective - would never use it.

Opinion: [Yes - opinion based on my driving it all over town]
[My driving experience - I am an aggressive driver. I have owned a 911 for ten years. I own an FX4 3.5L 2019 F150. I also own a 2013 off road upgraded Wrangler JK. I have done Bondurant. I have road driving skills and off road driving skills. I am an instrument rated pilot and have a tail wheel endorsement - I am used to having a fast OODA loop and drive the same way. I have never had an accident, and have never been convicted of a moving violation - my insurance record is pristine. That said - I don't want anyone monitoring my driving because an insurers bot would determine after 50 years of perfect driving I'm a horrible risk. Competence is shown by facts, not actuarial conclusions based on G force and throttle use.]

FSD stinks. Two words. Its slow, buggy, inefficient, operates last second, scares the crap out a driver who is looking three cars ahead, and, sometimes, disconnects when it gets confused.

Specifics:
We have an intersection where there are three lanes. I come in from the T. There are two travel lanes. The right lane coming from the left exits right and there is a physical barrier to prevent people from continuing. The entry lane from the T is dedicated for 100 yards - with rubber traffic cones preventing anyone from exiting the lane or coming into the new lane. FSD literally gives up and disconnects at this intersection every single time. While many humans also hesitate here because they cannot process what they are seeing - FSD gives up, after approaching the intersection at 10 mph and being unable to process the lanes and entry.

Next, changing lanes. FSD is like a blind and deaf 85 year old in a 65' Coupe D'Ville. If there is a gap in the lane next to you that requires a simple 3-5mph acceleration, you'll never make it - the car ALWAYS slows down first and will not speed up and will not make a lane change in less than 10 seconds - it takes FOREVER to decide its safe to go. If you've ever been in LA or NYC traffic and needed to change lanes you need to jump in the lane before the other car occupies the space - FSD would NEVER do that.

Curves: If you are coming arounbd a curve with an empty lane in front of you but the other lane or lanes are backed up, FSD will slam on the brakes to stop 'seeing' a car in front of you even though there is no one in your lane. This is not a complex algo - 'see the lane,' see where the vehicles actually are - a computer that it 10,000x faster than a human mind should be able to do this.

Speed limits: Yes - I exceed the limit occasionally along with 95% of other drivers - beeping to get my attention that FSD will not brake is not helpful. All the beeping for every little thing is annoying - and distracting as hell.

Following distances: FSD is jerky - it wants to maintain a distance but is slow to accelerate and then slow to decelerate. In the average scenario where I could simply remove my foot from the accelerator and coast to a stop /hold - the car continues to use throttle and hits the brakes once it ascertains the closing rate is increasing. Likewise, on the highway, it slows down when it sees a faster vehicle and then takes its sweet time accelerating back up to speed - and sometimes never does. even basic autopilot has this issue. This is atypical to how a driver operates a vehicle. I see a red light I start to feather a throttle to come to a stop before coming to the light or line of cars - thats efficient driving.

To anyone who likes their self driving program - I'll dare you to a trip. Anywhere - rush hour, not rush hour. We start from the same point and same time - and I'll bet you that even if we drive the same speeds I'll still beat you to the destination and have more power remaining. . . . and not have to see my BP jump up because the car turns into a turn slow or disconnects or comes roaring up on group of stopped cars and slams on the brakes.

This is not how a trained driver drives - and certainly not how most humans drive either.

Agree with most of this. But there’s also an element of getting used to it and learning to tolerate a new style of driving. I say this as a longtime user and fan of FSD.

All that said, I winced when Elon recommended every one to try it. It’s the furthest thing from a consumer-friendly product. He’s insane. And the free trial will probably turn off a bunch of drivers.

 

[comanchepilot]

When did it become the three second rule? It was two seconds when they taught me how to drive and that works just fine if you’re paying attention. If you’re texting or shaving or blow drying your hair the ten second rule won’t help.

 

[RichAZ/CapeCod]

Find the various views on FSD interesting. Been using current version on our MY LR for the past month. Like it a lot. Funny thing is, we're located just south of Tucson (where the OP is located) and have used FSD on a couple of 80 mile round trips into and out of the city (Green Valley to Lee Lee Market was one the other day). Worked just fine. Wife drove the car and was comfortable and she's a "nervous Nelly" if there ever was one!

End of May we're doing a 2,800 mile ride from AZ to Cape Cod, and will use FSD. Will decide then if we're buying the app or just continuing to subscribe.

Anyway, to each their own!

Rich

 

[dachshund]

Agree with most of this. But there’s also an element of getting used to it and learning to tolerate a new style of driving. I say this as a longtime user and fan of FSD.

All that said, I winced when Elon recommended every one to try it. It’s the furthest thing from a consumer-friendly product. He’s insane. And the free trial will probably turn off a bunch of drivers.

A couple of my friends tried it, and as expected, hated it. I hated it, too, initially. Something else is driving my car. It's counterintuitive. I was a complete skeptic, I thought it was illegal to put robots on the road, etc.

The automatic updates are a mixed bag. You're driving and suddenly something is different. I don't agree with the way FSD Supervised was rolled out. I had FSDb and there was no warning about the single-pull change. I used the TACC a lot, and suddenly it was lane-centering. Yikes. And, yeah, I can imagine people who are new to the car misunderstanding the system and making mistakes. That's legit.

The v12.3.x is obviously a big improvement. Consider what the 10.x.x was like! I find it useful now. They'll figure out the speed limit thing, and the last few problems.

 

[beatle]

Yes, you are correct, a bus length isn't the right distance, it's actually much longer. How would busses or semis ever be able to move right otherwise?

Just one infographic, there are many. It's the 3 second rule.

So yes, you are following too closely and are a bad driver if you think that it is the correct distance.

View attachment 1042284

I'm not an outlier here. Following at such absurd distances, especially while in the passing lane, is less safe as it turns you into a rolling chicane as you are perceived to not be moving with the flow of traffic. Plus, as I said, an ADAS system does not need the 3/4 second reaction time that a human does, so the distance can be even closer and still be safe. Choose a more conservative following distance if you like, but as it stands, even the most aggressive setting is nothing like a human following at a distance that won't frustrate those that follow him or her.

 

[golfpilot]

People qualifying their own opinions is one of the funniest things on this forum.

 

[Jagular]

I’ve found that I need to keep in mind what FSD is supposed to do: get its passengers from point A to point B safely with no accidents. If I summon an Uber to take me somewhere and the driver doesn’t drive fast, maybe even cautiously, and the driver doesn’t take the route I would take, it doesn’t matter to me. What matters most is that I get to my destination safely, no accidents, and if I’m a couple minutes later than what the route planner said, it’s no big deal. That’s FSD, right now, and it’s probably being tuned for Robotaxis - not our preferences. But driving safely is not a race. I stopped expecting FSD to drive exactly like I do. The only difference, again currently, is that I have to supervise that it’s not going to make a mistake. Eventually, that necessity will go away, too.

 

[Patrick66]

I think the late braking and scary closing distance is a fatal flaw that cant be fixed with current hardware. It just cant see far enough down the road.

Both are really down to training data. They need to train with hyper-miler drivers on that behavior and not aggressive drivers there. I have only seen a handful of things that might be hard to solve gracefully with current hardware-- they tend to be things that are also hard for a regular driver, things you might ask a passenger to keep an eye on while pulling out. When it is down to a badly designed intersection I am not sure what the long term solution would be.

 

[chermle]

Never in a million years. Like many I received the free FSD trial in my 2023 Model 3 Performance. I accepted. And though I still have a few days left will not sign up for it - and - from a safety perspective - would never use it.

Opinion: [Yes - opinion based on my driving it all over town]
[My driving experience - I am an aggressive driver. I have owned a 911 for ten years. I own an FX4 3.5L 2019 F150. I also own a 2013 off road upgraded Wrangler JK. I have done Bondurant. I have road driving skills and off road driving skills. I am an instrument rated pilot and have a tail wheel endorsement - I am used to having a fast OODA loop and drive the same way. I have never had an accident, and have never been convicted of a moving violation - my insurance record is pristine. That said - I don't want anyone monitoring my driving because an insurers bot would determine after 50 years of perfect driving I'm a horrible risk. Competence is shown by facts, not actuarial conclusions based on G force and throttle use.]

FSD stinks. Two words. Its slow, buggy, inefficient, operates last second, scares the crap out a driver who is looking three cars ahead, and, sometimes, disconnects when it gets confused.

Specifics:
We have an intersection where there are three lanes. I come in from the T. There are two travel lanes. The right lane coming from the left exits right and there is a physical barrier to prevent people from continuing. The entry lane from the T is dedicated for 100 yards - with rubber traffic cones preventing anyone from exiting the lane or coming into the new lane. FSD literally gives up and disconnects at this intersection every single time. While many humans also hesitate here because they cannot process what they are seeing - FSD gives up, after approaching the intersection at 10 mph and being unable to process the lanes and entry.

Next, changing lanes. FSD is like a blind and deaf 85 year old in a 65' Coupe D'Ville. If there is a gap in the lane next to you that requires a simple 3-5mph acceleration, you'll never make it - the car ALWAYS slows down first and will not speed up and will not make a lane change in less than 10 seconds - it takes FOREVER to decide its safe to go. If you've ever been in LA or NYC traffic and needed to change lanes you need to jump in the lane before the other car occupies the space - FSD would NEVER do that.

Curves: If you are coming arounbd a curve with an empty lane in front of you but the other lane or lanes are backed up, FSD will slam on the brakes to stop 'seeing' a car in front of you even though there is no one in your lane. This is not a complex algo - 'see the lane,' see where the vehicles actually are - a computer that it 10,000x faster than a human mind should be able to do this.

Speed limits: Yes - I exceed the limit occasionally along with 95% of other drivers - beeping to get my attention that FSD will not brake is not helpful. All the beeping for every little thing is annoying - and distracting as hell.

Following distances: FSD is jerky - it wants to maintain a distance but is slow to accelerate and then slow to decelerate. In the average scenario where I could simply remove my foot from the accelerator and coast to a stop /hold - the car continues to use throttle and hits the brakes once it ascertains the closing rate is increasing. Likewise, on the highway, it slows down when it sees a faster vehicle and then takes its sweet time accelerating back up to speed - and sometimes never does. even basic autopilot has this issue. This is atypical to how a driver operates a vehicle. I see a red light I start to feather a throttle to come to a stop before coming to the light or line of cars - thats efficient driving.

To anyone who likes their self driving program - I'll dare you to a trip. Anywhere - rush hour, not rush hour. We start from the same point and same time - and I'll bet you that even if we drive the same speeds I'll still beat you to the destination and have more power remaining. . . . and not have to see my BP jump up because the car turns into a turn slow or disconnects or comes roaring up on group of stopped cars and slams on the brakes.

This is not how a trained driver drives - and certainly not how most humans drive either. I''m

FSD is no longer Beta. I'm not down with helping fix a dead end product that should never be released.

Tesla had one chance to convince me, they went all in, and failed.

I've also had no accidents in over 600k lifetime miles. I keep FSD from actually crashing almost every time I use it.

One anecdotal safety disengagement proves FSD failed. 1000 perfect drives proves squat.

People who can't understand that have no business making any predictions about anything FSD.

I purchasd a Model "Y" a few days ago, and I've been using the FSD trial. It's doublful I'll buy, rent or lease it. Out of principal, I'm not buying/renting a product that doesn't have all of it's itemized sales points working . I also pretty convinced that vison only isn't going to able to resolve all of the FSD' issues. I also think the Lord Elon was taken posession is 9/10ths of the law a bit too seriously. FSD a great software and hardware comingling, but it's ot its namesake. I also feel quite strongly that driverless autotomous cars should need to get Federal regulatory approval before the product is rolled out. Assuming that there won't be Federal requlations in place is perhaps is a nice way of pushing a product to market, but I'm not sure it's the best move.

 

[Unclepaul]

Most guys consider them selves to be great drivers, but statistically 50% of them are below average.
FSD was not designed to be the fastest through congested traffic, but with safety at the higher priority. It is not yet as good as the highest level drivers when alert and focused. It is more designed to take some of the driving burden off the average owner when traveling long distances or in daily commuting traffic.
Likewise, airline pilots consider themselves to be pretty proficient at handling aircraft, but they also know when to and when not to use autopilot.
Fighter jet pilots suffer, as well, from long boring cruising flights between point A and point B. They would welcome assist to allow them to remain alert, relax and maintain their energy and stamina for when a dog fight breaks out. Even here, the latest remote driven drones, can outfly them in aerial combat situations.
Take away is that many drivers are great, but none are perfect.

 

[SilverString]

OP objections are legit and common. Mostly based on personal driving preference, and FSD does still make mistakes. However, if you've been driving the beta for a few years and saw how slowly things progressed up to this point, and then got this version, you might change your mind about saying "Never".

 

[Yelobird]

They pushed their flaky FSD free trial onto my Y. I don't want it! I won't even try it, not even once! And here is why:

I'm all for hi tech, but that's not what Tesla is delivering. They are delivering a lie. (And a lie is an insult that says that they think I'm too stupid to know better.)

Autopilot, with it's sudden unexpected and for no reason hard-scary-ass-breaking, that some call phantom, but I call bullshit-breaking. If they can't even get simple reliable cruse control working on my $65k car, then I don't want any of their crummy AI, period.

And to make matters worse, now with their recent FSD "update" (which is really a "downdate") they broke something that used to work: Now the speed limit sign on the display never shows more than 55 mph, even on 65 mph roads. ever! Now it NEVER works properly on any 65 MPH roads !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Oh yes, this makes me very angry. I feel like they broke my car with their software pushed onto it!)

Their updates are suppose to IMPROVE things, not BREAK things.!

I like / love the electric car!. But, I have started to hate how Tesla's software team is arrogant.

In regressive.

“ I don't want it! I won't even try it, not even once!” “It’s a lie” “they think I’m stupid”. One of these statements is true lol. Most useless post ever.

 

[Leftlane22]

It’s “braking”, not “breaking”. Man, that drives me crazy.