Yup it's far from useful at this point. Just leave it on autopilot and tell it when you want to change.
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Issue with the NOA suggested lane changes
- Thread starter Garlan Garner
- Start date
Fernand
Active Member
Sheesh, I just got HW3. I hope it doesn't make my car as bad as that.
NOA under HW2.5 EAP had been great since Jan 2019.
NOA under HW2.5 EAP had been great since Jan 2019.
C141medic
Active Member
I think NOA has a ways to go before it’s truly useful. I rarely use it. TACC and auto steer is more useful to me on the highway.
On AP when i have turn signal on i noticed the autosteering will disengage with extremely slight turn of the steering wheel and maintain TACC.
Agree with all of the disadvantages above - one benefit for me is that by trying to navigate to my destination, NoA reminds me to take the right exits, rather than blowing past them, which unfortunately I have a habit of doing. If it reminds me by causing me to grab the wheel in sheer terror, that's all the more effective.
Fernand
Active Member
Oh, you people. Take the time (and the initial terror
and discomfort) to really understand and control what
it does - that does take a good while - and you'll be a
lot happier. This isn't a bash/don't bash issue, but after
giving things a chance to adapt, I'm just very happy
with all the M3's automation, especially NOA.
So with the people who try it and reject it, I tend to think
they didn't really take the time to "sync up with the AI".
It's a different way to drive.
It isn't for dozing or not paying attention. It's an assist
that you can delegate a lot of functions to. When you're
walking, you don't have to consciously operate every
muscle. You can think "i'm walking to over there" and
your body does it. But if you don't pay attention, you
can get in trouble, I broke a tooth on a fence that way.
With every update, a little more can be delegated. And
of course we get occasional new "regression" bugs.
Garlan's excess lane changing sounds like one of those
new bugs.
Garlan, what does it claim? Does it think it's "changing
out of passing lane" or "changing lane to follow route"?
Or what?
We'll have to wait for them to figure it out and fix it.
.
and discomfort) to really understand and control what
it does - that does take a good while - and you'll be a
lot happier. This isn't a bash/don't bash issue, but after
giving things a chance to adapt, I'm just very happy
with all the M3's automation, especially NOA.
So with the people who try it and reject it, I tend to think
they didn't really take the time to "sync up with the AI".
It's a different way to drive.
It isn't for dozing or not paying attention. It's an assist
that you can delegate a lot of functions to. When you're
walking, you don't have to consciously operate every
muscle. You can think "i'm walking to over there" and
your body does it. But if you don't pay attention, you
can get in trouble, I broke a tooth on a fence that way.
With every update, a little more can be delegated. And
of course we get occasional new "regression" bugs.
Garlan's excess lane changing sounds like one of those
new bugs.
Garlan, what does it claim? Does it think it's "changing
out of passing lane" or "changing lane to follow route"?
Or what?
We'll have to wait for them to figure it out and fix it.
.
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Next time it happens see if there were any entrance or exit ramps nearby. A year or so ago I noticed it doing that even though I was the only car on the highway. Every time an off ramp or on ramp was coming up it would change lanes regardless that there were no cars on either and no cars around me.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
The NN doesn't "learn" on the car... ever.
It can collect data (regardless of AP being on or off) like if Tesla pushes a campaign for "show me pictures of stop signs" or whatever- but that's it.
This data gets sent back to HQ, which has humans review it to label it correctly (since computers can't) and then THAT properly labeled data is used to train the master NN stuff at HQ- which eventually gets pushed back as a software update to the fleet.
The only time your cars behavior changes is when they push an update, and it never 'learns' locally.
Check out greentheonlys debunking of shadow mode not really doing half the stuff Elon implies it does on twitter sometime.
Who said NN was was in-car?
All I was saying was we don’t have to live on the edges of our personal envelopes just to get used to the way the “AI” drives if we’d rather wait for it to get better. Our driving patterns will be added to the mix, to whatever degree, and, someday, we’ll learn it is capable of what we may deem a comfortable level. That’s why most of us test it after updates and check on our concerns.
Based on your second and third paragraphs, we’re on the same page. What prompted the rest?
Yup that's actually really useful to me. Makes lane changes super easy. Don't have to mess with the pedals at all
I agree. And I would prefer this to NOA's random lane changes or nagging lane change confirmation alert.
Just have to agree to disagree. NOA made my commute more painful because I was constantly having to tell the car No. Even worse is the car was like a toddler and kept asking after telling it No over and over. Then eventually you just give in and get in a lane that doesn't make sense in order to shut it up
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
When you said-"The neural net learns when ap is off"
If you didn't mean something happening in-car, AP being on or off wouldn't be relevant at all so I'm unsure how else to read that if you didn't mean something happening in the car.
Well, you said exactly the same thing just phrased differently: “it can collect data (regardless of AP being on or off)...”
Not getting into debunking of shadow mode or whether Tesla’s computers have gotten to the point of doing the bulk of learning yet without human flagging but, we seem to both be saying that, with or without AP engaged, continued driving will serve to improve the system.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Well- yes, but some folks seem to think it does that based on driver behavior.... like "Oh, it knows the human did X in this situation but the NN thought it should've done Y, so it'll "learn" using that difference"
which is the (incorrect) reason many folks give for why they want to use AP, especially in places AP isn't currently meant to work anyway- and besides not being how it works is also WAY WAY WAY more advanced a system than they actually have.
What "some folks" think really has nothing to do with what I wrote and, since we're saying the same thing and preaching to the co-preacher, I'm gonna just let this dialogue fade away.
Thanks for the insight.
Fernand
Active Member
@Garlan Garner you started this thread with a specific issue.
Can you please clarify. When it makes these unwanted changes:
Does it indicated it's "changing out of passing lane" or
Does it say "changing lane to follow route"?
Or what?
Thanks
@Stickboy46 Honestly that's not my experience. I wonder,
when you say "I was constantly having to tell the car No"
what exactly is it doing that you have to keep saying No to?
What is your NOA lane change set to? Inter-car distance?
What is your max speed set to, relative to the other cars?
There are practical ways to tune its behavior, within limits.
E.g. if I want my car to get really pushy in dense traffic, I set
the speed to way above ambient, w/ short inter-car distance,
and lane-change to Mad Max of course. The car tries to reach
top speed, but can't, so it aggressively changes lanes looking
for any chance to gain speed. Conversely you can tune it down
to lazy "live in your lane" style.
.
Can you please clarify. When it makes these unwanted changes:
Does it indicated it's "changing out of passing lane" or
Does it say "changing lane to follow route"?
Or what?
Thanks
@Stickboy46 Honestly that's not my experience. I wonder,
when you say "I was constantly having to tell the car No"
what exactly is it doing that you have to keep saying No to?
What is your NOA lane change set to? Inter-car distance?
What is your max speed set to, relative to the other cars?
There are practical ways to tune its behavior, within limits.
E.g. if I want my car to get really pushy in dense traffic, I set
the speed to way above ambient, w/ short inter-car distance,
and lane-change to Mad Max of course. The car tries to reach
top speed, but can't, so it aggressively changes lanes looking
for any chance to gain speed. Conversely you can tune it down
to lazy "live in your lane" style.
.
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