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Lightweight trailers a Model 3 might be able to tow

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I definitely want to be able to tow with my Model 3. I will buy a smallish utility trailer. This will take care of 100% of reasons to own a pickup truck. Lowe's is only 10 miles away so range is a complete non-issue for me while towing. There is a Home depot 70 miles away so it would be nice to do 140 miles round trip too.
 
Put theses overlapping hard shell campers in the mix:

This one uses one extra gallon of gas to go 100 miles:

2720 Series

This one is bigger:

3124 Series
"one extra gallon of gas to go 100 miles" Well there are a LOT of assumptions with that kind of blanket marketing statement from TrailManor.

...but did you know the Model 3 "gas tank" is less than 1.8 gallons?

One gallon is equivalent to ~34 kWh, so a 60 kWh battery is about 1.76 gallons.

If you go 100 miles and the trailer takes 34 kWh, that leaves 25 kWh to move the car 100 miles. If you assume the car needs 250 Wh/mi (or 4 mi/kWh), which is convenient but close, then the battery would be expended after 100 miles.

Yes only "one extra gallon of gas to go 100 miles" reduces Model 3 range by about 2.5x from 240 to 100 miles. These are all rough numbers...
 
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I definitely want to be able to tow with my Model 3. I will buy a smallish utility trailer. This will take care of 100% of reasons to own a pickup truck. Lowe's is only 10 miles away so range is a complete non-issue for me while towing. There is a Home depot 70 miles away so it would be nice to do 140 miles round trip too.
We're diverting from the OPs inquiry about travel trailers, but I am planning the same. A 6' x 8' utility trailer like these peak between 2400 - 3000 max weight and cost $1000-$1300.

Utility Trailers | Pipe Rail Trailer | Light Duty | Big Tex | Beaumont
Carry-On Trailer 6 ft. x 8 ft. Open Wood-Floor Trailer - For Life Out Here

They should be able to be towed by the Model 3 for your 140 miles without too much worry.

(This assumes the Model 3 tow capacity is at least 3,000 lb.)
 
"one extra gallon of gas to go 100 miles" Well there are a LOT of assumptions with that kind of blanket marketing statement from TrailManor.

...but did you know the Model 3 "gas tank" is less than 1.8 gallons?

One gallon is equivalent to ~34 kWh, so a 60 kWh battery is about 1.76 gallons.

If you go 100 miles and the trailer takes 34 kWh, that leaves 25 kWh to move the car 100 miles. If you assume the car needs 250 Wh/mi (or 4 mi/kWh), which is convenient but close, then the battery would be expended after 100 miles.

Yes only "one extra gallon of gas to go 100 miles" reduces Model 3 range by about 2.5x from 240 to 100 miles. These are all rough numbers...
You can look at it another way... Assuming the vehicle that travels that distance while towing is only about 20% energy efficient... Only 6.8 kWh or so would be added to complete the distance. If the vehicle in question gets 20 MPG while towing, that means it actually expends 170 kWh (five gallons of fuel) over 100 miles (instead of 'only' four gallons) but only uses 34 kWh worth of energy as the motive force. The rest is used up in noise, vibration, heat, light, and smoke. And let's face it, it more than likely gets more like 12 MPG while towing, right?
 
I hear ya. I'm trying to think about why someone who wants to tow anything is looking at an all electric car...
Surely it is obvious why the Model 3 will come with towing capability:

ATV128-Loaded.jpg


;)
 
I hope to be towing one of these trailers with the Model 3.

COBRA trailer | Cobra Trailer

I'm drooling for an electric-powered self-launching glider that I would like to be able to tow to the mountains with my pending Model 3. :) Total weight of the trailer and glider would be 2,000 to 2,400 pounds. That's my target load, so hopefully, the Model 3 will have a 2,500 pound towing capacity. It'll be fun trying to find somewhere to temporarily park a 25' long trailer while charging up at the Superchargers.

These glider trailers tend to be low profile and somewhat aerodynamic, so there's also the chance that they wouldn't impact efficiency as much as the camper trailers discussed above.
 
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"one extra gallon of gas to go 100 miles" Well there are a LOT of assumptions with that kind of blanket marketing statement from TrailManor.

...but did you know the Model 3 "gas tank" is less than 1.8 gallons?

One gallon is equivalent to ~34 kWh, so a 60 kWh battery is about 1.76 gallons.

If you go 100 miles and the trailer takes 34 kWh, that leaves 25 kWh to move the car 100 miles. If you assume the car needs 250 Wh/mi (or 4 mi/kWh), which is convenient but close, then the battery would be expended after 100 miles.

Yes only "one extra gallon of gas to go 100 miles" reduces Model 3 range by about 2.5x from 240 to 100 miles. These are all rough numbers...
Probably empirical in a best, or average, case scenario.

Let's approach it in good faith from the empirical side.

A car that can tow that trailer gets ~20 miles per gallon, and uses 10 gallons to go 200 miles.
Or 5 gallons to go 100 miles. So a gallon is 20% of its range. So 100 translates into 80.

So, on the use end, since 200 miles is the range of the model 3, with that trailer on flat land you go 160 miles between charges.
 
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I hope to be towing one of these trailers with the Model 3. COBRA trailer | Cobra Trailer
I'm drooling for an electric-powered self-launching glider that I would like to be able to tow to the mountains with my pending Model 3. :) Total weight of the trailer and glider would be 2,000 to 2,400 pounds. That's my target load, so hopefully, the Model 3 will have a 2,500 pound towing capacity. It'll be fun trying to find somewhere to temporarily park a 25' long trailer while charging up at the Superchargers.
These glider trailers tend to be low profile and somewhat aerodynamic, so there's also the chance that they wouldn't impact efficiency as much as the camper trailers discussed above.
I suspect that the 3 would be able to tow such a trailer, and its low profile would certainly be helpful. I'm sure you know that such gliders already exist. See AliSport . I also have a desire for such a glider. Zero emissions in flight and when launching. What could be better? And yes, it will be a challenge to park such a trailer while Supercharging!
 
Probably empirical in a best, or average, case scenario.

Let's approach it in good faith from the empirical side.

A car that can tow that trailer gets ~20 miles per gallon, and uses 10 gallons to go 200 miles.
Or 5 gallons to go 100 miles. So a gallon is 20% of its range. So 100 translates into 80.

So, on the use end, since 200 miles is the range of the model 3, with that trailer on flat land you go 160 miles between charges.
Your first conclusion is correct, that "100 translates to 80"; but your assumption that that can translate to Model 3 performance is not correct.

A real empirical example comes from TeslaXCanada. Their Model X (a bigger car than the 3) towing a Safari Condo Alto (lighter and more aerodynamic than the Trailmanor 2720) has over a 50% range loss when towing at 55 mph.

From their FAQ:
"Without the trailer, the Tesla Model X 90D can go up to just over 400km on a full charge at highway speeds and air-conditioning on. With the trailer, our experience has been as follows:
  • 250km/ 155mi at 70km/ 45mi/h
  • 210km/130mi at 80km/ 50mi/h
  • 180km /110mi at 90km/ 55mi/h "
Please refer to the my previous post upthread that demonstrates why a more efficient vehicle has a higher range loss than you would expect. In fact, the "one extra gallon of gas to go 100 miles" is like the truck in Case 1 that has a 13% loss in range. That's close to the 20% ("100 translates to 80") range loss. In Case 2, the Model X "only" has a 50% range loss.

To restate the conclusions from that post:
  1. Small aero efficient vehicles need to expend more energy to tow a given trailer than a less efficient vehicle
    • This effect is minor
  2. Small aero efficient vehicles lose a higher percentage of their range when towing than a less efficient vehicle
    • This effect can be very significant when comparing an ICEV with an EV
 
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I suspect that the 3 would be able to tow such a trailer, and its low profile would certainly be helpful. I'm sure you know that such gliders already exist. See AliSport . I also have a desire for such a glider. Zero emissions in flight and when launching. What could be better? And yes, it will be a challenge to park such a trailer while Supercharging!

Not to drag this too far from the original thread...

The drooling is more from my current financial situation, not the aircraft availability side of the equation. I've seen that Alisport, but really have my eye on the two-place Pipistrel Taurus Electro G2. I'm saving up the cash now, because I don't want to pay the 5% interest that banks are charging on aircraft loans. Maybe a few years after the Model 3 is released. If the stock price at work continues to climb, RSUs and ESPP purchases could shrink the time window for being able to make a purchase.
 
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image.jpeg
We have an Aliner hard sided popup we pull with our Volt. The camper is 1640 lbs dry and likely 1900 loaded. It folds down to about 4.5 ft so one of the better ones aero wise. While the Volt does a good job I find range and/or gas mileage is cut in half. So I do not see a model 3 being practical in pulling a camper any distance. Finding a SuperChargers every 100 miles will not likely cut it.
 
  • Small aero efficient vehicles need to expend more energy to tow a given trailer than a less efficient vehicle
    • This effect is minor
  • Small aero efficient vehicles lose a higher percentage of their range when towing than a less efficient vehicle
    • This effect can be very significant when comparing an ICEV with an EV
Thanks for your analysis. That does not bode well for towing even a small camper trailer behind a Model 3. Sure, it's possible, but as @dhrivnak points out, having to find a Supercharger every 100 miles is really going to slow down the trip, especially since a practical towing speed is going to be 50-55mph to maximize range.

I don't mind at all taking a break from driving every two hours or so, but if by then my battery is at a very low state, like 10%, and I have to charge to 90%+ to get to the next Supercharger, that means an hour charging if I have a Supercharger pair to myself, and even longer if the other paired stall is in use.
 
I don't mind at all taking a break from driving every two hours or so, but if by then my battery is at a very low state, like 10%, and I have to charge to 90%+ to get to the next Supercharger, that means an hour charging if I have a Supercharger pair to myself, and even longer if the other paired stall is in use.
Hence, why I am in favor of battery pack capacities that others consider to be 'over-the-top optimistic' or 'entirely unrealistic' or 'too big, too heavy, too much -- a complete waste'.
 
a Safari Condo Alto (lighter and more aerodynamic than the Trailmanor 2720)
Thanks for the information. I think aero is the product of Cd and frontal area. The Trail Manor is a hard side pop up and should have lower frontal area. A volume bubble on the front and cavity on the back should bring the Cd to .3.

Which is still way higher than the 3. And there is the V^2 term.

So yeah, I think you are right. The super low Cd of the towing vehicle indicates the OP may .... Want a Chevy Bolt?
 
@ecarfan (the OP) and I have traded some PMs yesterday and we agreed that the discussion was better suited for this thread. Paraphrasing his question, he wanted to know my speculation about whether a Model X or a Model 3 would have more range towing a Safari Condo Alto trailer, assuming both cars have the same battery capacity. This was an interesting question and I didn't know how it would play out exactly.

Let's set the stage with some assumptions. First, I'll assume the highway speed is 65 mph for the calculations. This allows us to use the EPA range data as a direct reference. (These cars get about their EPA range when traveling at 65mph.)

Here're some other specs I'll use:

Safai Condo Alto trailer
Model R-1723
Weight: 2000 lbs (loaded)
Width: 83"
Height: 83"
Approx Frontal Area: 6,889 sq in [83x83]

Model 3 75D (mythical)
Width: 74.2"
Height: 56.5"
Approx Wake Area: 4,192 sq in [74.2x56.5]

Model X 75D
Width: 81.5"
Height: 66.3"
Approx Wake Area: 5,403 sq in [81.5x66.3]

Instead of focusing on the range, which is dependent on the actual battery capacity, I'll concentrate on the energy used to go a given distance and can be expressed as Wh/mi. We need to determine the "clean" efficiency of each car, then add the trailer to each and finally compare the results.

Let's assume a Model 3 60 goes 225 mi, a 60D goes 5% more or 236 mi. A 75D, with a heavier battery taking off 33% of the gain, goes 17% further [(75/60-1)*0.67] or 276 mi. That's 75kW for 276 mi or 272 Wh/mi for a clean Model 3 75D.

The Model X 75D EPA range is 238 mi. That's 75kW for 238 mi or 315 Wh/mi for a clean Model X 75D.

Now the real fun begins, the fine folks at TeslaXCanada have provided some nice empirical data for us to use. Their 257 mi (EPA) X 90D gets knocked down to 110 mi range at 55 mph when pulling the Alto. In fact, they give 3 data points at 45, 50 and 55 mph. With that data, I plotted, curve fitted, and extrapolated the range to 65 mph. A reasonable polynomial fit puts the range at 85 mi with a 90D. That's a 67% reduction [1-85/257] by pulling the trailer. A similar reduction for the X 75D would be to 78.7 mi [238*0.3307] and 75kW for 78.7 mi is 953 Wh/mi. So 953 Wh/mi for a Model X 75D with Alto at 65 mph.

And now it gets complicated, since we need to translate the energy the Model X uses to tow to what the Model 3 might use. We could just subtract 315 from 953 to get 638 Wh/mi of additional energy needed to tow the trailer. Adding that to the clean Model 3 272 Wh/mi would yield 910 Wh/mi. However, that doesn't account for the smaller Model 3 providing a smaller wake for the trailer. In effect, the trailer behind the Model 3 experiences more wind and therefore has a higher drag force than behind the Model X. The Model 3 would therefore need to provide more than 638 Wh/mi to tow the trailer. How much more is very hard to answer because it depends on complicated aerodynamics that are hard to simplify.

Let's attempt to do this by first breaking apart the 638 Wh/mi into two components: tire rolling friction and aerodynamic drag. The trailer is light, especially compared to it's size, so I'll assume the tire friction is 25% of the 638 so 160 Wh/mi [638*0.25] is used to roll the vehicle. That leaves 478 Wh/mi [638*0.75] to overcome aero drag. The Model X wake (very roughly) shadows 78% [5403/6889] of the trailer leaving 22% of it exposed. A Model 3 wake only shadows 61% [4192/6889] of the trailer and leaves 39% exposed. The trailer's wind exposure goes from 22% to 39%, increasing by 1.77x. So the aero drag might increase from 478 to 846 Wh/mi behind the Model 3 [478*1.77]. This is a very hand-wavy approximation!

Adding it all back up, the Model 3 towing efficiency is the sum of 272 (clean Model 3) plus 160 (trailer rolling friction) plus 846 (trailer aero drag). That's 1,278 Wh/mi for a Model 3 75D with Alto at 65 mph. If you're familiar with these numbers, that should give you serious pause right there!

Comparing these numbers says that the Model 3 is 34% [1-1278/953] less efficient than the Model X when towing this trailer. I'm not sure I believe this number. I don't want to believe this number! But I don't have a better way to approximate the aero effects of the smaller Model 3. Will the Model 3 only go 51.9 mi [78.7 * (1-0.34)] pulling this trailer at 65mph? I hope not. That's a 81% (!) range loss [1-51.9/272]. However, I firmly believe that the 43 Wh/mi [315-272] advantage the Model 3 has when clean will definitely be exceeded by the additional drag of the Model 3 pulling this trailer instead of the Model X. That difference was 368 Wh/mi [846-478] using my rough approximation for the drag. Even if my drag calculation is 5 times too high, the additional drag will still exceed the Model 3's 43 Wh/mi advantage. [368/5 = 73.6 > 43]

To summarize:
--The Model X 75D with Alto loses 67% range and can go 78.7 mi range at 65 mph.
--A mythical Model 3 75D with Alto loses 81% range and can go 51.9 mi range at 65 mph. (Hopefully more, but likely not near 78.7 mi.)

Two final points:
1) The Model 3 motors or battery might not be able to handle the thermal load associated with producing 1.3kWh/mi continuously. In fact, I'd be very impressed if it did. That's discharging 83 kW [1.278*65] in 48 minutes [51.9/65*60] or only a little less than Supercharger charging power.
2) Traveling at 65 mph is not necessary. Slowing to 55 mph, increases the efficiency and range by about 29% [1-110/85]. The Model X/Alto would use 739 Wh/mi [953/1.29] and go 102 mi [78.7*1.29]. The Model 3/Alto would use 991 Wh/mi [1278/1.29] and go 67 mi [51.9*1.29].

This took a longer than I expected but was insightful for me. I really hope I'm overestimating the drag increase of the Model 3 pulling this relatively efficient trailer. I welcome anyone to suggest a better method to estimate the drag.

Bottomline, I don't see the Model 3 being a practical travel trailer tow vehicle.
 
@Zoomit & @ecarfan -- Please note that the Great State of California prohibits passenger vehicles towing trailers to travel at more than 55 MPH. This is largely ignored by the populace, of course. And it isn't helped much that most people never read their California Drivers Handbook to begin with... Nor is it helped by the fact that highway signage only mentions this point in mountainous terrain with blind corners every once in a long while... But it could be that Tesla Engineers are largely unaware that States such as Utah place no such limit on towing vehicles at all. So they can legally proceed at up to 85 MPH while towing. I expect Tesla Motors to make their calculations for towing range acceptability based upon 55 MPH constant speed even though that is nowhere near ubiquitous.
 
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--The Model X 75D with Alto loses 67% range and can go 78.7 mi range at 65 mph.
--A mythical Model 3 75D with Alto loses 81% range and can go 51.9 mi range at 65 mph. (Hopefully more, but likely not near 78.7 mi.)
1) The Model 3 motors or battery might not be able to handle the thermal load associated with producing 1.3kWh/mi continuously. In fact, I'd be very impressed if it did. That's discharging 83 kW [1.278*65] in 48 minutes [51.9/65*60] or only a little less than Supercharger charging power.
2) Traveling at 65 mph is not necessary. Slowing to 55 mph, increases the efficiency and range by about 29% [1-110/85]. The Model X/Alto would use 739 Wh/mi [953/1.29] and go 102 mi [78.7*1.29]. The Model 3/Alto would use 991 Wh/mi [1278/1.29] and go 67 mi [51.9*1.29].
Fantastic post, well reasoned and very useful, thank you!
Please note that the Great State of California prohibits passenger vehicles towing trailers to travel at more than 55 MPH.
Yes, understood, and @Zoomit did note the 55mph ranges as well.

Bottom line to me is that towing a trailer like the Alto with a Model 3 may be more trouble than its worth. Even if the Model 3 has a 90kWh battery option (whether it will or not is unknown at this time) that is still unlikely to offer enough useful range when towing 2,000 lbs.

This is not to say that towing an Alto with a Model 3 is impossible. It probably is (assuming Zoomit's thermal load concern does not turn out to be an issue when we finally get some production Model 3's on the road) but it will require such frequent Supercharger stops that I don't think very many people will tolerate it.
 
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