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Losing interest in the Tesla Brand

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Agreed that Tesla has low competition, but how do you think service is a problem? My cars have never, NEVER needed service, two with over 80,000 miles on them, one with over 10,000. What's there to service?

Or are you just taking it in for fun? Everyone I know never takes their car in for service. Why do YOU? Maybe you just like to pay for things you don't need.

As to "Easter eggs", why is that a "serious problem"? Never been a problem on my car. Never worry about them. Car works great, software works great on center screen. Don't need to worry about Easter eggs.

You ought to try running your car for four years without taking it in for service. Use the money to take a friend out to dinner or something. Or put it in the bank.

Service is not an achilles heel, not in any way. You are flat wrong. There is no service. Tesla will happily give you an appointment, keep your car all day, and return it to you at the end of the work day, and even charge you so you will be happy. Personally I'm happy without the folderol, the getting my car to the service center (115 miles), leaving it, coming back, paying for nothing.

I can deal with doing without service!

They need more buyers like you!
 
so this is the end for Tesla? wow you must have a crystal ball or something because last time I checked they were adding new markets for sales and deliveries. Do you even follow Tesla and what they are ACTUALLY doing?

Yes, we're all reading this and commenting because we ARE following what they're ACTUALLY doing (as opposed to what they're saying).

... and yes, this likely IS the end for Tesla (that is the end for the current ownership and management structure). The sentiment has been trending down for a while and we are in a pre-recession pattern, with sales in the toilet. Unless the Model Y is miraculously better than the 3, they have no product upgrades worth mentioning and no upside in any market.

The brand has been damaged substantially over the last year (read the threads here or ask any owner in China how they feel about Tesla these days) and, i. m. o., there is not one thing that they can do, short of major restructuring. They're not exactly investable under the current management, so I'm guessing we'll see some drastic changes this year.

At this point, moving forward requires full recognition of failure and a clean start. I'm looking forward to that, I'll be a lot more fond of the part where they dust themselves up and get back on their feet vs. this slow-motion train wreck we're witnessing.
 
When I bought my Model S P100D it was the pinnacle of the Model S. Q4 2016. They had leather interiors with ventilated seats and the glass roof had just been release. The innovations kept coming. From there they began to remove offerings and simplify there production of a very expensive and premium product. The next quarter they raised the price $10,000 on the performance model.

Now they have discounted everything, stripped the badging and made a bland product offering. Instead of being excited about what was to come I’m bored and worried about what’s next for the Model S. Though I intended to own my car for many years when I bought it, I liked to see the innovation.

I’m hoping Tesla returns to that once they get through this patch of gutting the company

They really don't seem to care at all about (new) S and X owners. Unveiling V3 supercharger and leaving out S and X.
 
What I dont get is why dont people just move on and be done with Tesla if you are really that unhappy with the brand.


How about because many of us want Tesla to succeed and aren’t afraid to call out issues. Some of us are investors in the traditional sense, while others are investors based on purchase of the product. Either way, we wear our passions on our sleeve. Not being a pollyanna doesn’t mean you aren’t loyal. We are in a democracy after all. Oops I’m bringing politics into this..
 
How about because many of us want Tesla to succeed and aren’t afraid to call out issues. Some of us are investors in the traditional sense, while others are investors based on purchase of the product. Either way, we wear our passions on our sleeve. Not being a pollyanna doesn’t mean you aren’t loyal. We are in a democracy after all. Oops I’m bringing politics into this..

I'm an owner and investor and I support Tesla during the ups and downs. Many of the people on this forum do in fact want Tesla to succeed but there are alot of people who will post things just to cause controversy.
 
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I'm an owner and investor and I support Tesla during the ups and downs. Many of the people on this forum do in fact want Tesla to succeed but there are alot of people who will post things just to cause controversy.

I am sure that’s true, but, respectfully, I’ve seen an increasing number of posts from long-time owners and forum members relating personal bad service experiences. For the most part, I have been lucky (so far), but I have witnessed issues while at the SC for my own items; these were mostly delivery mess-ups. I am pretty sure Tesla has noticed and is trying to address. I side with those who say they better. While I accept some of the attributes of being an early adopter, I won’t excuse continued bad service. In my case they have about a year before it’s time to decide what’s next..
 
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I end up profiling. Sometimes I probably do get it wrong (sorry new TMC posters), but the incidence of negative new posts is one of the biggest things going on at TMC.

S/X have less selection of many things now standard (like heated steering wheels, you couldn't even option before). I don't buy the "cookie cutter" complaints, beyond maybe sunroof.

The cars don't need service, as a general rule. That doesn't come out in a pile-on threads. Yesterday, I read of a guy dumping his S because Bluetooth broke? The real reasons for some of these service complaints are laughable, compared to both the routine service costs and myriad issues that can befall an ICE vehicle.

Tesla is outgrowing Elon Musk. His hyper focus on the delivery a cheap, outstanding M3, shows it. His multiple, deliberate choices to destroy his own demand with polarizing "minimalism", software jamming or the supposition people want the steering wheel taken away, are all his. That doesn't mean a touch-screen Taycan, with dramatically shorter range, complemented by less charging, for more money, that you can't buy or won't be produced in number, somehow presents itself as "competitive".

Musk being able to screw with EVs is part of this era people who like electric cars are both lucky to have, and stuck with.
 
Sometimes I probably do get it wrong (sorry new TMC posters), but the incidence of negative new posts is one of the biggest things going on at TMC.
Maybe there reason why there is so much complaining now vs. in the past is because there are so many things to complain today vs. in the past? Something else is not happening as much as it used to in the past - people defending against the complaints.

The cars don't need service, as a general rule.
And herein lies the root of your misunderstanding. Generally cars may not need service, but Tesla's do. I will say this though, once they fix things, they hold up well, but still they need service after manufacturing. I bought 4 brand new Model S over 6 years and each and every one of them required service to correct manufacturing issues (or design issues in one instance for the 2017 car). Model S is the one Tesla has been producing the longest, so you figure they'd have it figured out by now, but they don't - it's still an early adopter car, which was fine when there wasn't that many of them and service could keep up, but mass producing early adopter cars overwhelmed service (and parts) and now you have a bunch of early adopter cars with very bad service availability, hence all the complaining. That, and a bunch of things Elon took money for and never delivered or hugely under-delivered - that resentment builds up over time as there are more customers who feel cheated.
 
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Things that got me into a Tesla in 2015

Supercharging network. The free element was a fun element of it, but it was never a serious part of it.
The introduction of Autopilot. I liked the idea that it would get better over time.
Local Service Center full of knowledgable people.
Resale guarantee
Sales Tax exemption helped with the price
Federal Tax credit that helped with the price

Things that are trying to get me out of Tesla

FSD as in how it was advertised, and sold
Elon not being grounded in reality. So many distractions like picking a fight with the SEC
The ship it and fix it later mentality. Not enough focus on getting it right the first time.
The lowering of the price too quickly. Sure I get that Elon wants sustainability, but the company itself has to be sustainable.
The uneasy feeling that one gets when things are out of control. It's bad enough that we have the POTUS we do, and things like Brexit. Can't our car company at least make sense? This might sound funny, or at least it does to me. But, I think humans take comfort in the things wer'e fans of. As an example diesel gate really impacted VW fans because of the love they had for everything VW.
Strongly belief that people still need to kick the tires, and test drive a car before knowing if a car fits them. The online sales model feels like Tesla see's a car as a tool, and not as something to fall in love with. If I wanted a tool I'd buy a Toyota.

What's keeping me in a Tesla

Lack of Supercharging like infrastructure from competitors. The Electrify America network leaves a lot to be desired
The Tesla Community
The Christmas like feeling right before an update is released
My enjoyment of complaining about things (I get this from my mother. ughh).
When I drive the car I forget about all the issues with the company, and how it's run. The car does the talking as it should be the case.
Life is about adventure, and Tesla is an adventure.
I like your thinking. If one is not up to adventure, then the alternatives are . . . (the cars we used to drive).
 
Funny thing is what new EV competition were they dropping prices to meet ? I get that demand has disappeared, but there really is no competition out there for S or X yet.

Models S and X need a refresh to spur demand. Price decreases of over $10K is just going to gut the brand and may hurt, not help sales longer term.
Porsche Taycan . Deliveries starting January 2020. 20,000 deposits take already...just in US. That’s where some Tesla Model S Buyers are migrating!
 
Generally cars may not need service, but Tesla's do. I will say this though, once they fix things, they hold up well, but still they need service after manufacturing. I bought 4 brand new Model S over 6 years and each and every one of them required service to correct manufacturing issues (or design issues in one instance for the 2017 car). Model S is the one Tesla has been producing the longest, so you figure they'd have it figured out by now, but they don't - it's still an early adopter car, which was fine when there wasn't that many of them and service could keep up, but mass producing early adopter cars overwhelmed service (and parts) and now you have a bunch of early adopter cars with very bad service availability, hence all the complaining. That, and a bunch of things Elon took money for and never delivered or hugely under-delivered - that resentment builds up over time as there are more customers who feel cheated.
From what you say, apparently my 90D, produced in early 2016, is a bit unique. Other than a minor squeak in the dashboard, it was clean when I picked it up at the showroom, and it has stayed that way. Over 55k miles now, just shy of three years on the road, and the car has been the most trouble-free vehicle I've ever owned.
"Early adopter car"? Mine has never appeared to be such. In terms of reliability, trouble-free operation and quality of build, it far outshines any other new car I've ever owned, which has included Japanese products, Detroit big iron, Korean cars and BMW's.
I've had the headaches with software updates that weren't thoroughly regression tested, or sometimes seemed to be pretty ill thought out (like that time a few years ago when autopilot on non-freeway roads would go the speed limit and no faster - which they reversed post-haste after an owner uprising), but I don't think that's the same as the "early adopter" issue you're talking about. Or am I missing the thrust of your point? Let me know...
 
Porsche Taycan. Deliveries starting January 2020. 20,000 deposits take already...just in US. That’s where some Tesla Model S Buyers are migrating!

I am done with "German precision engineering". 25 years of Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche. In the shop all of the time. My neighborhood foreign car mechanic loved all the work I gave him. I was spending at least $600/month (after warranty) to keep those cars running. Can you believe what VW, Audi, and Porsche did with Clean Diesel? What a joke. Lied straight to our face.

How about everyone else?
  • Toyota / Lexus still are stuck with hybrids and "Hydrogen" cars (although they are mechanically rock solid). Where do you go to fill up with Hydrogen?
  • Nissan Leaf? Oops... they forgot battery climate control (still!) causing their batteries to severely degrade. Oh, and their CEO is in Japanese jail for tax fraud.
  • You can always go with a Chevy or Ford. US built--right? Oh, I forgot... they shipped the Cruze manufacturing to Mexico. And, Ford has stopped making cars (except the Mustang) and focusing on SUVs and trucks.
  • What about Chrysler? Fuggedaboutit!
Tesla is pushing the envelope (just like SpaceX), and so some people are going to get their feelings hurt because their 2016 Model S is no longer the sharpest car in the lot. I agree with people that Tesla needs to get their management in order, but I am willing to stand by while they do. Their cars are still better than all of the others.
 
When I bought my Model S P100D it was the pinnacle of the Model S. Q4 2016. They had leather interiors with ventilated seats and the glass roof had just been release. The innovations kept coming. From there they began to remove offerings and simplify there production of a very expensive and premium product. The next quarter they raised the price $10,000 on the performance model.

Now they have discounted everything, stripped the badging and made a bland product offering. Instead of being excited about what was to come I’m bored and worried about what’s next for the Model S. Though I intended to own my car for many years when I bought it, I liked to see the innovation.

I’m hoping Tesla returns to that once they get through this patch of gutting the company

What's the name of the car company you stated and run? Cause obviously you know more than Elon et al.

Can't help but love all the geniuses that have achieved zilch, but have ALL the answers.
 
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From what you say, apparently my 90D, produced in early 2016, is a bit unique. Other than a minor squeak in the dashboard, it was clean when I picked it up at the showroom, and it has stayed that way. Over 55k miles now, just shy of three years on the road, and the car has been the most trouble-free vehicle I've ever owned.
"Early adopter car"? Mine has never appeared to be such. In terms of reliability, trouble-free operation and quality of build, it far outshines any other new car I've ever owned, which has included Japanese products, Detroit big iron, Korean cars and BMW's.
I've had the headaches with software updates that weren't thoroughly regression tested, or sometimes seemed to be pretty ill thought out (like that time a few years ago when autopilot on non-freeway roads would go the speed limit and no faster - which they reversed post-haste after an owner uprising), but I don't think that's the same as the "early adopter" issue you're talking about. Or am I missing the thrust of your point? Let me know...

So.., like you I’ve been fortunate so far. However, as I’ve already posted, I’ve watched an uptick on the forum of long time owners, who have experienced more issues in the past 2 years, that caused them to take pause. I can tell the difference between OPs posting substantive issues vs those who are focused on picyune things. The brand won’t get better unless we hold them to account. I look to this forum to help me do that. I’ve read a lot of @whitex posts and he falls into the “respect” bucket..
 
Tesla has always been disfunctional but I read their intentions as genuine. With this latest news today I just think they are being unethical.

Tesla slashes retail employee compensation, seemingly pushing them out instead of layoffs

I own 2 Tesla’s and 0 Tesla stock. They need a major turn around on so many fronts if they want to keep my brand loyal

Since you had all of the vote types except the light bulb, I went ahead and gave you one of those. Now you have all 6 types :D
 
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From what you say, apparently my 90D, produced in early 2016, is a bit unique. Other than a minor squeak in the dashboard, it was clean when I picked it up at the showroom, and it has stayed that way. Over 55k miles now, just shy of three years on the road, and the car has been the most trouble-free vehicle I've ever owned.
"Early adopter car"? Mine has never appeared to be such. In terms of reliability, trouble-free operation and quality of build, it far outshines any other new car I've ever owned, which has included Japanese products, Detroit big iron, Korean cars and BMW's.
I've had the headaches with software updates that weren't thoroughly regression tested, or sometimes seemed to be pretty ill thought out (like that time a few years ago when autopilot on non-freeway roads would go the speed limit and no faster - which they reversed post-haste after an owner uprising), but I don't think that's the same as the "early adopter" issue you're talking about. Or am I missing the thrust of your point? Let me know...
You apparently got lucky. If you're looking for examples of how it's an early adopter car, let's look at the last 2 cars I got - 5 years after the first one, so the experience should not be "early adopter" right? Picked up 2017 Model S, at delivery we discover that one of the mirrors will not fully unfold, it just flops around, after a few tries we can lock it in place, just have to make sure you disable the auto folding (which as we found out, also doesn't always persist, sometimes just enables itself - I'm sure someone's idea of "convenience"). We are told, "software fix coming next update". Two software updates go by, mirror still flopping around while driving, now I'm annoyed and insist of new mirror, so they put it in, problem fixed, for 2 weeks, back to the exact same problem, so we go for another mirror assembly, another 2 weeks of proper operation, then mirror goes limp again. 3 mirror assemblies and 4 months later a bulletin comes out, turns out only mirror assemblies produced after some date have a permanent fix. We were the early adopters of brand new mirror assembly design by Tesla - maybe testing it out for upcoming Model 3's?

While owning the 2017 car, we experience weird issue, car turns on while parked and stays on and unlocked. Service tries to repro, it's an intermittent problem, no fix. It took us few months to track down what was causing that one, turns if you get into the car on the front passenger side, but exit through a different door (or if you put a duffel bag there by opening the door, but take the bag out from the driver's side, it confused the software and cause the weird car staying on, unlocked and driveable without a key(!) problem.

Few months went by, one of the updates Tesla decides they have a genius idea - force unfold mirrors as soon as the car starts moving. Car auto-updates, my wife missed that burried in the release notes. She drove somewhere where she parks next to a concrete pillar. She's parked there many times before, and she knew to manually fold the mirrors before attempting to back up. So she folds the mirrors (as she has done many times before), starts to backup up, mirror unfolds just in time to get broken off by the pillar. $600 early adopter fee to replace the mirror (and a over a week wait, would have been longer if we needed new painted cap, so I just used some epoxy to fix it so we could reuse it). Tesla fixed the problem by the way, now auto-unfold happens above 15 or 20mph, not above 0.

A year in, the 2017 Model S got hit a a DUI driver. It took over 2 weeks before the one guy in an entire Seattle area qualified to estimate Tesla damage has a chance to estimate it. I heard the wait surpassed 3 months not long after we were done, and insurance will do nothing until they can get an authorized estimate. If our car wasn't totaled, the wait it to be fixed, which was a combination of both qualified techs and parts waits was going to me months.

So we get a new 2018 Model S. No issues at delivery this time, progress! We take it home, it won't charge. Hmm... WTF? Service takes our car in, gives us a loaner of similar production date. Turns out the loaner doesn't charge either. Charger works just fine up to 80A on the older Model S we still have. Luckily on forums I find the new cars are not compatible with Gen1 Tesla chargers. Even SC didn't know. Got a new HPWC, but still had to install it, so still an inconvenience (and a cost if you have to pay an electrician).

I call issues like the ones I just described early adopter issues. Maybe you call it expected ownership experience, I don't know, but I never had this type of experiences with other manufactures, and I've owned many cars from Hyundai to Porsche. While I expected some of this with my earlier Teslas, I figured by 2017, 5 years in, they would have figured things out. Throughout all this, the one thing which kept me with Tesla was the service people, they always did their very best identifying and fixing issues, even if Tesla parts took forever they did everything they could to find workarounds. What has changed since the flood of Model 3's is the service is now so flooded, earliest appointments are a month away. When I did service last year, they were so swamped I felt sorry for them. They would love to go above and beyond like in the past, but there is only so much you can do when you're so overloaded.

So, I hope your car keeps on working and never requires service, or accident repair. Our 2 Model S "knock on wood" are good now (other than things like V9 experience, or browser on 2015 car not working for months now, I gave up on that one), and I'm hoping they'll stay that way for a long time.
 
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What's the name of the car company you stated and run? Cause obviously you know more than Elon et al.

Can't help but love all the geniuses that have achieved zilch, but have ALL the answers.
So no ones opinion or advice matters unless they’ve started and ran a car company?

By the way, Tesla Motors was not founded by Elon Musk, therefore his opinions shouldn’t matter either according to your asinine standards