The article below lists the base mission E as having 400 kW. Is that comparable to a Model S 40 (if that existed)?
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Mission E comparison
- Thread starter Joshnickell
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- Model S
I don’t see the article but I can say that 400kW would have no relevance to the 40kWh Model S 40(which did exist at one point, kinda). You’re talking motor output vs. battery capacity.
400kw is a little over 530 horsepower. The model S 40 had 40kwh of usable battery capacity. It was an S60 that was software limited to less capacity, and had nowhere near 500 horsepower.
They sound similar, but kw measures power, like horsepower... while kwh measures capacity, like gallons.
You can actually see your kw power rating in the power graph / regen app. the orange bars that go up as you floor it are measured in kw.
They sound similar, but kw measures power, like horsepower... while kwh measures capacity, like gallons.
You can actually see your kw power rating in the power graph / regen app. the orange bars that go up as you floor it are measured in kw.
KW is in units Power as correctly stated above, while KWH is actually Energy. Having X KWH of energy available says absolutely nothing about the maximum amount of power available. For example, you can use a very small electric motor to spin up a heavy flywheel and that would require X amount of energy to do so (HP * time). The amount of HP that it takes to stop the wheel is inversely proportional to the time it takes to stop it. If it took 600 seconds to spin the flywheel up to the maximum speed, and only 0.1 seconds to stop it, then the stopping HP would be about 6,000 times higher than the original motor that spun it up (assuming 100% efficiency for everything). Likewise the stopping HP could be any value, independent of the amount of energy that went into originally spinning up the flywheel.
Whoops here’s the link. Porsche Mission E Specs Have Been Leaked, And It’s Definitely A Tesla Model S Killer
Thanks for the answers! The kW vs kWh being different types of measurement were what was throwing me.
Cheers!
Thanks for the answers! The kW vs kWh being different types of measurement were what was throwing me.
Cheers!
Nice stats, as a lifelong Porsche owner I'll definitely test drive that car and will probably buy it. Porsche nails the creature comforts that Tesla took forever to figure out, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the suspension considering how well my S handles already.
The article gets some stuff confused though; I don't think any drivers are heat-soaking their batteries on autobahn driving - that's more of a track-hot-lap thing. GT cruising on public streets - even at high speed - has never been trouble in my S.
The article gets some stuff confused though; I don't think any drivers are heat-soaking their batteries on autobahn driving - that's more of a track-hot-lap thing. GT cruising on public streets - even at high speed - has never been trouble in my S.
The misinformation is real in this one. I've seen the Mission E and it's barely bigger than what a Model 3 is, and certainly not a full size luxury saloon.
Bridor
Member
I just posted a link to this article and I state that I do not think this is a competitor to the Model S - I bought the Model S because it had the option of seating 7 - the Porsche only seats 4. Also, the Porsche does not have the coast-to-coast Supercharger network that Tesla has.
One the four-seat Tesla Roadster comes out, the Roadster will be the undisputed champion in the Porsche Mission category.
One the four-seat Tesla Roadster comes out, the Roadster will be the undisputed champion in the Porsche Mission category.
jelloslug
Active Member
Articles like this seem to assume Tesla isn't changing and while the Mission E will probably outperform a 2017 Model S, it may not outperform a 2019 Model S P???D or P???T. And the Roadster will be out about the same time as the Mission E.
The only way to prevent the battery from overheating when pushing the car to its limits is to provide extra cooling. That probably means the Mission E will have essentially no storage with all the space taken up either with batteries or cooling equipment. It already sounds like a much more cramped car than the Model S.
Porsche thinks in terms of sports cars and sports car performance. Their best selling car these days are the Maccan and Cayenne, which are a lot more practical than their pure sports cars because the market for pure sports cars is rather limited.
A reasonably competent sports car designer can make an EV sports car that performs better than the Model S. The miracle of both the Model S and X is they are incredibly practical cars which also happen to be supercar killers in a drag race. There are a few people who buy the S P100D for its track performance and there are a few that have been modified to boost track performance, but the vast majority of Tesla owners also love the fact that the Model S/X are also great and practical cars. And the superchargers network is just another facet of the flexibility.
The Mission E will get buyers, but I doubt it will ever rival a Model S in practicality. I've gotten an XL twin mattress in the back of my car (taking it to Goodwill), I doubt that will be possible with a Mission E. I can also drive my Model S virtually anywhere in the continental US with few worries. Same thing in most of Europe.
Maybe the CCS network will be built out with enough fast chargers to support the Mission E when it comes out, but who is going to want to go on a long road trip with a car where storage will likely be tight and the only place to store your luggage is the back seat and maybe a tiny afterthought trunk somewhere? That's the case with most ICE pure sports cars. You don't see many Lambos or Ferarris or other super sports cars on the interstates between cities because they are terrible cars for road trips.
Maybe the Mission E will have a decent trunk, but I very strongly doubt it will come close to rivaling the Model S in overall hauling capacity.
The only way to prevent the battery from overheating when pushing the car to its limits is to provide extra cooling. That probably means the Mission E will have essentially no storage with all the space taken up either with batteries or cooling equipment. It already sounds like a much more cramped car than the Model S.
Porsche thinks in terms of sports cars and sports car performance. Their best selling car these days are the Maccan and Cayenne, which are a lot more practical than their pure sports cars because the market for pure sports cars is rather limited.
A reasonably competent sports car designer can make an EV sports car that performs better than the Model S. The miracle of both the Model S and X is they are incredibly practical cars which also happen to be supercar killers in a drag race. There are a few people who buy the S P100D for its track performance and there are a few that have been modified to boost track performance, but the vast majority of Tesla owners also love the fact that the Model S/X are also great and practical cars. And the superchargers network is just another facet of the flexibility.
The Mission E will get buyers, but I doubt it will ever rival a Model S in practicality. I've gotten an XL twin mattress in the back of my car (taking it to Goodwill), I doubt that will be possible with a Mission E. I can also drive my Model S virtually anywhere in the continental US with few worries. Same thing in most of Europe.
Maybe the CCS network will be built out with enough fast chargers to support the Mission E when it comes out, but who is going to want to go on a long road trip with a car where storage will likely be tight and the only place to store your luggage is the back seat and maybe a tiny afterthought trunk somewhere? That's the case with most ICE pure sports cars. You don't see many Lambos or Ferarris or other super sports cars on the interstates between cities because they are terrible cars for road trips.
Maybe the Mission E will have a decent trunk, but I very strongly doubt it will come close to rivaling the Model S in overall hauling capacity.
A German car is a German car. Just traded in our 2013 X-3 for a 2018 Mercedes C-43 convertible, a gorgeous car, but still miles behind our 2015 S85D in performance, electronics, dealer and delivery experience, etc.
One would think that they would pick up some positive tips from TESLA, but no, their teutonic arrogance supersedes their good sense and keeps them on the same antiquated path.
In view of the above, buy more TESLA stock
One would think that they would pick up some positive tips from TESLA, but no, their teutonic arrogance supersedes their good sense and keeps them on the same antiquated path.
In view of the above, buy more TESLA stock
sakimano
Active Member
Its a horrible article. Lots of people are strangely desperate to see someone/something 'kill' tesla. Everything's a Tesla killer in these articles.
That article sounds pretty horrible and thin. I wouldn't give it much thought.
The mission E is a concept car looking joke at this point. Put that powertrain in a new panamera or an RS7 and you've got my attention. That's still 2-3 years away. As someone pointed out the mission E is more like a stretched cayman, rather than something the size of the model S.
Until their VAG/MB/BM charging network is up and running those companies will keep teasing ugly concept cars which are basically vapourware to stop loyal customers from jumping ship to a Model S/X.
sakimano
Active Member
Maybe because you're comparing an entry level rep-mobile (C43 is just a C450, not a true AMG product or remotely model S like) to your $90,000 tesla.
Go drive an E63 AMG S, RS7 or M5 and then compare performance and technology.
jelloslug
Active Member
The sad thing is that many people feel the Tesla Semi and Roadster 2020 are vapourware. Vapourware that Tesla offered passenger rides with, no less.
Hi Sakimano, not trying to put down my wife's new C43 AMG Mercedes convertible, but simple tasks such as programing garage door remotes, syncing phones, entering GPS destinations and autopilot (AP 1) are far far superior than Mercedes. Not to mention braking, road holding and acceleration.
Don't get me wrong, the fit and finish, interior cabin design, quality of materials, paint and some other features such as interior lighting, grab handles, coat hooks (lack of), seating design do beat TESLA hands down, but overall I still prefer the TESLA.
Also TESLA's are always connected to the cloud and let's not forget their supercharging network, I honestly feel that the Germans just don't and never will get it.
And I still reiterate, buy more TESLA stock !
Don't get me wrong, the fit and finish, interior cabin design, quality of materials, paint and some other features such as interior lighting, grab handles, coat hooks (lack of), seating design do beat TESLA hands down, but overall I still prefer the TESLA.
Also TESLA's are always connected to the cloud and let's not forget their supercharging network, I honestly feel that the Germans just don't and never will get it.
And I still reiterate, buy more TESLA stock !
