Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)

[LMNOP]

How does the autopilot lead it into the gore point? The lines went from one solid line and split into two uninterrupted. You don’t think the car will freak out when it realize it is in a lane that is the wrong size at the beginning?

What if the cameras didn't "see" the origination of the split? Either it was obstructed by another vehicle, glare, or some other reason.

 

[bonnie]

The above just became more interesting.
I have AP1, and the claims by the family have me puzzled, as "taking over" is extremely easy with AP1. So AP2 is that much different?

No, AP2 is not difficult to disengage. In fact lately I've been annoyed with it (or more accurately with myself) because when resting my hands on the wheel, it's disengaged. First world problems. But bottom line is no, it is does not require any force to disengage AP2.

 

[mattack4000]

It’s a solid white line. If it is that easy to do, there would be more people doing it

 

[bonnie]

I had a thought - do we think this was an AP2 car? The reason I wonder is because the force required to override the wheel in AP2 (at least before 10.4) is a lot higher than with AP1. In my 3 I had a couple of scary disengages at 70mph where I corrected the car with the wheel, AP2 wrestled with me for a bit, then let go, causing me to jerk the wheel. It was scary enough that I stopped using the wheel to disengage because I was worried about losing control at freeway speeds.

There must be something wrong with your car. Get it checked. I find the torque required to disengage AP2 to be the same as AP1. It's minimal & sometimes I kick myself out of AP2 just because of the minor pressure of my hands on the steering wheel.

 

[Matutino]

I’m not stating AP had anything to do with it, but judging by how my AP reacts on my MS and MX, I can totally see how AP could drive the MX straight to the gore point.
Mine has tried to kill me more than once and if I wasn’t 100% paying attention I would be another post/statistic here, talking about my accident.

 

[buttershrimp]

Some of the comments here about AP are not only ridiculously speculative, but grossly irresponsible as well. There is NO WAY AP drove the car into an immovable barrier like that, no freaking way. I don't know what happened, I don't profess to have been there and seen it happen, I don't have the logs, but neither do ANY of you... Yet far too many posters here are absolutely quick to jump on AP when these kinds of accidents happen with all other makes/models of cars... It's just ridiculous...

Why are so many of you so quick to jump on AP? There are so many other more plausible explanations for how something like this could happen... I used to ride a motorcycle and lane split all the time in the Bay Area and I can't even begin to describe to you all the different kinds of distracted driving I saw from every kind of driver in every kind of car.

Jeff

Seriously agree, it's not like he was in an Uber or something.

 

[SMAlset]

Having watched the 100mph Myth Busters crash into a tall brick wall video someone posted a few pages back, I can see how the whole car at impact could fly up and then not hard to imagine flying forward over a short concrete wall. Actual eyewitness accounts of the car being flipped haven't been expounded upon by anyone so far but that must have been something to see and scary being it's what...a 5,000lb machine. The Myth Busters scenario was set at 100mph but I'm sure a typical Bay Area HOV lane speed upwards of 65-75 would have a similar effect given once the car was airborn it had the freedom to travel forward due to momentum and weight. I could see the car being heavily damaged in the front but since the whole body wouldn't slam into a solid wall as in their video the cabin and rear end of the car would be catapulted in pretty much intact condition. It's very fortunate that others weren't killed in this accident.

 

[e-FTW]

So, now we have this: I-TEAM EXCLUSIVE: Victim who died in Tesla crash had complained about auto-pilotFriends and family are mourning the death of Apple engineer Walter Huang after he crashed in his Tesla in Mountain View Friday.

 

[e-FTW]

No, AP2 is not difficult to disengage. In fact lately I've been annoyed with it (or more accurately with myself) because when resting my hands on the wheel, it's disengaged. First world problems. But bottom line is no, it is does not require any force to disengage AP2.

Thank you, thats helps.
Still don't know how a car drives towards and hits a barrier unless something else is up. AP or not. There is a driver in there, AP only helps out.

 

[buttershrimp]

I still don’t see how it is mistaken as a lane unless you are drunk or high

You need to simply imagine the view being obscured by a truck or someone who you slowed down to let in.... this is why the chevrons or even plastic posts are so valuable. I agree with jeff that it's not a matter of trying to blame autopilot or defend it.... I take issue with the claim that autopilot was on because it doesn't fit the behavior I'm used to at all. You get used to autopilot's tendencies and vulnerabilities with time, especially with each firmware update.

 

[e-FTW]

So, now we have this: I-TEAM EXCLUSIVE: Victim who died in Tesla crash had complained about auto-pilotFriends and family are mourning the death of Apple engineer Walter Huang after he crashed in his Tesla in Mountain View Friday.

And I felt smart about grabbing more TSLA today...

 

[buttershrimp]

I’m not stating AP had anything to do with it, but judging by how my AP reacts on my MS and MX, I can totally see how AP could drive the MX straight to the gore point.
Mine has tried to kill me more than once and if I wasn’t 100% paying attention I would be another post/statistic here, talking about my accident.

I have to disagree because this sort of hyperbole isn't accurate. That's like me saying, AP rescued me and saved the lives of 5 motorists on the way to work on several occasions.

 

[Matutino]

I have to disagree because this sort of hyperbole isn't accurate. That's like me saying, AP rescued me and saved the lives of 5 motorists on the way to work on several occasions.

You can disagree all you want but is the truth, AP might have save you many times but it also tried to kill me more than I would like to. One time didn’t read a line and drove me against the freeway divider.

 

[Kant.Ing]

So, now we have this: I-TEAM EXCLUSIVE: Victim who died in Tesla crash had complained about auto-pilotFriends and family are mourning the death of Apple engineer Walter Huang after he crashed in his Tesla in Mountain View Friday.

So the victim should be on the 85S flyover if he's heading for the office around 9:30AM, mostly in Cupertino. Why changed to 101S, too much TMC?

 

[siucity]

So, now we have this: I-TEAM EXCLUSIVE: Victim who died in Tesla crash had complained about auto-pilotFriends and family are mourning the death of Apple engineer Walter Huang after he crashed in his Tesla in Mountain View Friday.

This doesn't make sense. If he did complain to Tesla about Autopilot, and specifically about that split, why would he continue to use it there?

 

[Mrcook4590]

So, now we have this: I-TEAM EXCLUSIVE: Victim who died in Tesla crash had complained about auto-pilotFriends and family are mourning the death of Apple engineer Walter Huang after he crashed in his Tesla in Mountain View Friday.

From the article - "Walter Huang's family tells Dan Noyes he took his Tesla to the dealer, complaining that -- on multiple occasions -- the auto-pilot veered toward that same barrier -- the one his Model X hit on Friday when he died."

Why in the world would you continue to use it there then??? (*If* AP was on and in use)

 

[e-FTW]

So the victim should be on the 85S flyover if he's heading for the office around 9:30AM, mostly in Cupertino. Why changed to 101S, too much TMC?

He was going to Sunnyvale. He would need to keep going on 101 south.

 

[buttershrimp]

So, now we have this: I-TEAM EXCLUSIVE: Victim who died in Tesla crash had complained about auto-pilotFriends and family are mourning the death of Apple engineer Walter Huang after he crashed in his Tesla in Mountain View Friday.

This is tough... family is mourning.... and the possibility of there being human error (which there was to some extent either by the driver or by other people on the road), certainly by caltrans, but this situation is so sad that I don't see a clean data log not implicating autopilot as helping the situation. I'd bet that Mr. Huang was quite familiar with AP... the guy was a very bright guy... the more disturbing aspect to this is that this could have happened to anyone... When you look at the Arizona head on collision with the model X and how incredibly safe the model X is.... you realize how much the lack of a buffer on the barrier resulted in the fatality. I can't imagine there being a fire had the barrier been in place. This hit in the worst possible spot.

 

[e-FTW]

Tesla responded to that piece and the family's claims:
'Tesla released a statement that reads: "We've been doing a thorough search of our service records and we cannot find anything suggesting that the customer ever complained to Tesla about the performance of Autopilot. There was a concern raised once about navigation not working correctly, but Autopilot's performance is unrelated to navigation."'
I-TEAM EXCLUSIVE: Victim who died in Tesla crash had complained about auto-pilot

 

[buttershrimp]

From the article - "Walter Huang's family tells Dan Noyes he took his Tesla to the dealer, complaining that -- on multiple occasions -- the auto-pilot veered toward that same barrier -- the one his Model X hit on Friday when he died."

Whoa!Why in the world would you continue to use it there then??? (*If* AP was on and in use)

I'm sorry but I don't believe that. that situation is true, you have to consider a person contemplating suicide and them trying to leave a family in a not so bad situation.... HOWEVER! I don't believe it. This would be the dumbest theory of them all. If that story is true, and Mr. Huang had complained about the car doing that.... I'd say that it is not just implausible that AP killed him... it's impossible.

You can disagree all you want but is the truth, AP might have save you many times but it also tried to kill me more than I would like to. One time didn’t read a line and drove me against the freeway divider.

Interesting, did it insult you before it tried to kill you? What other motives did it have? Edit: I'm trying to make a point... sorry that I sound like a d-bag while doing that.