P3D+ 20” Winter Tires / Wheels

[ras5500]

Thanks. Those are good data points.

Any snow experience yet (Tahoe)? I’d be buying this primarily for snow use when going up to Washington and then up to Whistler.

Also could I ask for a picture of the wheel with these tires to see how narrow they look when mounted? Thanks!

 

[Vines]

None yet, by the time I will know I'll be on the road. I was only expecting something that would be acceptable, and not freeze my P4S. As all seasons, they aren't going to be great.

 

[Vines]

Here's an image of them on my car.

 

[ras5500]

Here's an image of them on my car.

Thank you!

Definitely some gap there. Are you planning to get rim protection bands? They come with an insert which can help fill this gap.

 

[ras5500]

None yet, by the time I will know I'll be on the road. I was only expecting something that would be acceptable, and not freeze my P4S. As all seasons, they aren't going to be great.

Hmm - I will need to drive through snow up in Whistler (and also in Tahoe this season). If you don't think they are great as A/S maybe I need to look at other alternatives.

 

[Vines]

Im just saying that All-seasons are a compromise on any surface. I've never used them on snow yet, but I'd imagine they are workable, but not high performance.

 

[Vines]

Thank you!

Definitely some gap there. Are you planning to get rim protection bands? They come with an insert which can help fill this gap.

No, I'll just run them as is, and be careful.

 

[ras5500]

Im just saying that All-seasons are a compromise on any surface. I've never used them on snow yet, but I'd imagine they are workable, but not high performance.

Agreed they are a compromise. The UHP AS tires (Conti DWS, Michelin AS) can still be good enough for performance, if not as good as the Max Performance Summers, i.e. less of a compromise.

Guess I'll wait for another week to see if the AS3's become available. If they are not, and I am still making the trip, I may end up buying the Nankings.

 

[Lunares]

I used XXR 559 18" tires and Michelin Crossclimate+ on my mammoth trip. Worked great, lots of control getting in and out of a slippery iced driveway.

Imgur

 

[Vines]

Seeing really nice efficiency numbers on the nankangs this morning. Once I got on smooth tarmac, they seem to be able to hold 250 wh/mi at 70 mph. Still not long enough of a trip to be sure but I think these will be good trip tires.

 

[DrSmile]

I went with 18 inch Bridgestone A/S potenza re980as tires. Here in NYC it may snow on a couple of days but mostly I want a compound that won't be rock hard in freezing temperatures, plus the tires need to handle rain and slush, and giant potholes. On Monte Titano Vita 6 wheels because I'm 100% sure I'm going to curb them. Yes the 18 inch wheels are a tight fit on the rear calipers, but so far so good.

 

[dfwatt]

Agreed they are a compromise. The UHP AS tires (Conti DWS, Michelin AS) can still be good enough for performance, if not as good as the Max Performance Summers, i.e. less of a compromise.

Guess I'll wait for another week to see if the AS3's become available. If they are not, and I am still making the trip, I may end up buying the Nankings.

Make sure you get the A/S3+. Don't get fooled into buying the A/S3's which are still in stock in places. The compounding change from the 3 to the 3+ was significant in terms of snow traction. On wet and dry pavement, they are just stunning - might be within a hair of the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. We've been blown away by how good they are, and while they aren't as good as a full snow tire in deep snow, they are more than decent in New Hampshire's crap winter weather. I might rate them the best and biggest surprise in any tire I've ever tried out, and that's boatload of tires over the past two decades, including many max perform summer tires.

 

[ras5500]

Make sure you get the A/S3+. Don't get fooled into buying the A/S3's which are still in stock in places. The compounding change from the 3 to the 3+ was significant in terms of snow traction. On wet and dry pavement, they are just stunning - might be within a hair of the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. We've been blown away by how good they are, and while they aren't as good as a full snow tire in deep snow, they are more than decent in New Hampshire's crap winter weather. I might rate them the best and biggest surprise in any tire I've ever tried out, and that's boatload of tires over the past two decades, including many max perform summer tires.

I was planning on AS3+, haven’t seen as3 in a long time. Good to hear your feedback on summer performance. Unfortunately they are out of stock everywhere so may have to get Nankang for this winter at least.

 

[ras5500]

Seeing really nice efficiency numbers on the nankangs this morning. Once I got on smooth tarmac, they seem to be able to hold 250 wh/mi at 70 mph. Still not long enough of a trip to be sure but I think these will be good trip tires.

Are you running 42 or 44 psi? Climate control on or off to get the 250wh/mi?

 

[dfwatt]

I was planning on AS3+, haven’t seen as3 in a long time. Good to hear your feedback on summer performance. Unfortunately they are out of stock everywhere so may have to get Nankang for this winter at least.

So nothing at Tire Rack, Discount Tire or NTB (local stores in my area still show some)? Bummer.

And just to clarify, they are monsters on cold dry and wet pavement (under 40F), not just in more moderate temps. I can't recall being more impressed with a tire's overall envelope of performance, since first experiencing the Super Sports many years ago. Haven't run them in deep and really cold snow, but in the lighter snow and slush we have seen so far here in NH, they just cruised. I'm sure full snows would be way better in deep snow, but then you couldn't expect the A/S3+ levels of performance on dry or wet pavement. Once again, it's all tradeoffs.

 

[Vines]

Are you running 42 or 44 psi? Climate control on or off to get the 250wh/mi?

Climate off, I run at 45 psi typically, but one tire is at 42 today.

My normal commute only has about 5 miles of good pavement. For whatever reason the nankang tires get pretty poor mileage on the heavily grooved section of concrete of 85 from 880 to 280. When I get to the tarmac and lightly grooved part of 85 I usually press reset on my trip meter just to get a 5 mile reading. Its so short that I haven't really trusted it much, as I'd prefer to post more accurate numbers based on at least 30 minutes of constant speed driving.

Today at 72 mph I saw an average of 215 wh/mi for that 5 mile stretch of freeway. Prrety good for a P3D on 20s, but more data needed.

 

[ras5500]

Climate off, I run at 45 psi typically, but one tire is at 42 today.

My normal commute only has about 5 miles of good pavement. For whatever reason the nankang tires get pretty poor mileage on the heavily grooved section of concrete of 85 from 880 to 280. When I get to the tarmac and lightly grooved part of 85 I usually press reset on my trip meter just to get a 5 mile reading. Its so short that I haven't really trusted it much, as I'd prefer to post more accurate numbers based on at least 30 minutes of constant speed driving.

Today at 72 mph I saw an average of 215 wh/mi for that 5 mile stretch of freeway. Prrety good for a P3D on 20s, but more data needed.

I think the climate is killing me - I always have it on. I’ll try without climate on one of the milder days. My commute is non highway and I still haven’t seen wh/mi under 300 so far.

 

[ras5500]

So nothing at Tire Rack, Discount Tire or NTB (local stores in my area still show some)? Bummer.

And just to clarify, they are monsters on cold dry and wet pavement (under 40F), not just in more moderate temps. I can't recall being more impressed with a tire's overall envelope of performance, since first experiencing the Super Sports many years ago. Haven't run them in deep and really cold snow, but in the lighter snow and slush we have seen so far here in NH, they just cruised. I'm sure full snows would be way better in deep snow, but then you couldn't expect the A/S3+ levels of performance on dry or wet pavement. Once again, it's all tradeoffs.

Nothing at tirerack or Costco. No NTBs on the west coast. Haven’t called local shops yet though.

 

[Mayhem]

Call me crazy, but...

I have A/S 3+ on order (early Jan delivery Tirerack.com) but I'm considering canceling and using summer tires all year. This is because I have a 4Runner with Mud/snow tires that I could use that for any snowy/ice conditions (or less than 40 deg), and drive the M3P (with pilot sport 4s) on days where temps won't be below 40° and there is no calling for snow/ice. My M3P is garaged and it never gets below 40 in my garage, usually at 50-55°.

My thinking comes after reading carefully over the Michelin warranty/owners manual. It warns against winter tire in summer use and how this use could limit or invalidate the warranty, but never even mentions warranty and/or safety issue about summer tire in winter. Maybe with other tire brands, use in low 40's (or even upper 30's) could damage the tire integrity -- but I don't think that's the case with these Michelin tires otherwise certainly it would be documented somewhere in the warranty/owners manual.

I know braking, traction will be less than optimal summer use, but still with AWD and traction control in an EV that I'd still be fairly safe.

 

[Lunares]

Call me crazy, but...

I have A/S 3+ on order (early Jan delivery Tirerack.com) but I'm considering canceling and using summer tires all year. This is because I have a 4Runner with Mud/snow tires that I could use that for any snowy/ice conditions (or less than 40 deg), and drive the M3P (with pilot sport 4s) on days where temps won't be below 40° and there is no calling for snow/ice. My M3P is garaged and it never gets below 40 in my garage, usually at 50-55°.

My thinking comes after reading carefully over the Michelin warranty/owners manual. It warns against winter tire in summer use and how this use could limit or invalidate the warranty, but never even mentions warranty and/or safety issue about summer tire in winter. Maybe with other tire brands, use in low 40's (or even upper 30's) could damage the tire integrity -- but I don't think that's the case with these Michelin tires otherwise certainly it would be documented somewhere in the warranty/owners manual.

I know braking, traction will be less than optimal summer use, but still with AWD and traction control in an EV that I'd still be fairly safe.

Here's the note from TireRack/Michelin on the Pilot Sport 4S

Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.

Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced.