Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[stopcrazypp]

Just do a run at <100% SoC, easy to reproduce slow times even with a ringer. Proves nothing.

The C&D actually covered this extensively about how to reproduce their times (presumably Tesla told them): the car must be the lightest configuration (no pano, dual chargers, or rear facing seats), SOC must be above 95% and max battery activated. Their number is an average of 2 runs (with 3 minute rest in between to let things cool off).
2015 Tesla Model S P90D - Instrumented Test

The owner P90DL was ~95% SOC.

Arguing in the face of clear evidence. It stopped being a question of "If you try hard enough you can get the car to do 10.9" almost a year ago. It is a trivial software change to make any car into a "ringer" as long as you don't care about pack life.

It's possible it is a software change, but then from previous threads that discussed the MotorTrend 10.9 time, other possible factors were brought up, including MotorTrend's adjustment factors and their use of VBox style equipment rather than a drag strip.

 

[brianman]

The most ardent performance enthusiasts that bought pre-V3 P90DLs relying on Tesla's unambiguous 10.9 ET specification are obviously the segment of owners most upset about being short-changed by Tesla.

A remedy that would uniquely focus on this segment of owners (the most ardent performance enthusiasts) would be for Tesla to offer the P100 battery upgrade at a "V2-owners discount" and an even bigger "V1-owners discount" because they were short-changed even more.

It's usually the P90D owners that say stuff like this. Conveniently ignoring that the P85D owners are saying similar things about their vehicles.

Move on folks, it's not going to happen. Some of us already have.

 

[AWDtsla]

Move on folks, it's not going to happen. Some of us already have.

Move on = Don't buy another Tesla.

 

[Bill D]

It's usually the P90D owners that say stuff like this. Conveniently ignoring that the P85D owners are saying similar things about their vehicles.

Move on folks, it's not going to happen. Some of us already have.

I certainly see your point, however your "move on" defeatist attitude could have also been said about counter-gate, but Tesla stepped up and restored credibility with at least some of their most ardent performance enthusiast customers as evidenced earlier in this thread.

I felt your pain when I followed the P85D owners being upset over HP, but the 10.9 ET claim for the P90DL was more absolute and didn't have wiggle-room for Tesla. The silent phasing over to the V3 battery (achieving 10.9) also was an admission of the shortfall of the V1 and V2 batteries.

Another difference is Tesla's announcement of the P100 battery upgrade for P90DL owners (which remedies the 10.9 shortfall) so I'm simply suggesting a appropriate discount to restore credibility with at least some of their customers, even if they have not previously done that with 100% of their customers.

 

[fiksegts]

I was advised that the upgrade from the P90D to P100D is no longer avail....

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Not sure why people keep wishing for this.

Not going to happen. Period.

The only way Telsa will make any remedy is if they are compelled to by legal action, and in spite of the (imho entirely justified) complaints, so far it doesn't appear there is sufficient determination to follow through with legal action.

Tesla past performance can be used as an indicator for current and future performance in this instance.

This "marketing BS calculated risk" aspect of Tesla sadly but significantly diminishes the brand and the product.

Not so sure.

After the Norway ruling, and then settlement of the lawsuit, followed by the somewhat quick response to Countergate, perhaps things are changing at Tesla.

While I concur the use of "ringers" and such to skew magazine articles is completely unsat, and that this foot dragging on fixing the problem does diminish the brand, with the growing legal forces there may be a move to arrest this in the weeks ahead.

We'll see . . . .

 

[Old Man Mike]

I was advised that the upgrade from the P90D to P100D is no longer avail....

What? Do you mean there will be no $20k battery upgrade for P90D? Hard to believe since there was a formal announcement by Tesla stating it would be available early this year.

 

[Bill D]

What? Do you mean there will be no $20k battery upgrade for P90D? Hard to believe since there was a formal announcement by Tesla stating it would be available early this year.

Unfortunately, if the upgrade offer they announced is rescinded, Tesla's credibility will notch down again. Sad!

 

[Tech_Guy]

Hmm I sent tesla an email requesting the upgrade right after it was announced... as far as I'm aware no one has received an upgrade yet to date... I find it had to believe it was discontinued before it ever happened...

 

[TSLA Pilot]

What? Do you mean there will be no $20k battery upgrade for P90D? Hard to believe since there was a formal announcement by Tesla stating it would be available early this year.

With all due respect, the concept of spending $20k to upgrade, and NEVER having the VIN match the actual performance/description of a P100D, seems like financial folly.

Tesla has priced to make the purchase of a new Tesla more desirable, despite their horrid trade-in program....

 

[AWDtsla]

With all due respect, the concept of spending $20k to upgrade, and NEVER having the VIN match the actual performance/description of a P100D, seems like financial folly.

Yes

Tesla has priced to make the purchase of a new Tesla more desirable, despite their horrid trade-in program....

Er, no. You'd waste far more money in the trade then you'd ever get back later.

The only financially sensible thing to do would be for Tesla to refurb and sell your old pack at cost towards your upgrade pack, but they have never offered that.

 

[smac]

A remedy that would uniquely focus on this segment of owners (the most ardent performance enthusiasts) would be for Tesla to offer the P100 battery upgrade at a "V2-owners discount" and an even bigger "V1-owners discount" because they were short-changed even more.

The problem with this approach is so far the "v1","v2", "v3" have been a construct of TMC, and not an official Tesla demarcation of the cars.

Tesla would, by offering differing discounts, in effect be acknowledging publicly they missed advertised specifications by various degrees.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The problem with this approach is so far the "v1","v2", "v3" have been a construct of TMC, and not an official Tesla demarcation of the cars.

Tesla would, by offering differing discounts, in effect be acknowledging publicly they missed advertised specifications by various degrees.

I guess that is the point. That Tesla would acknowledge and remedy missing advertised specs. Right?

The acknowledgement could be done indirectly through VIN ranges or something.

I agree with @brianman though that by now it is very unlikely to happen.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I was advised that the upgrade from the P90D to P100D is no longer avail....

Hopefully you are mistaken. The erratic ways of Tesla certainly make for an interesting ownership experience...

 

[Old Man Mike]

With all due respect, the concept of spending $20k to upgrade, and NEVER having the VIN match the actual performance/description of a P100D, seems like financial folly.

With an equal measure of respect; I would be spending $20k to match the performance of a P100D, not to match a VIN number range. Financial folly is in the eye of the beholder. Some would say owning any Tesla is financial folly.

 

[lolachampcar]

I am afraid I have joined brian on this one...
Tesla is what it is. They have knowingly advertised and promoted false numbers and false magazine results. They have refused to apply their treat everyone the same approach when forced by our European friends to (partially/fully?) address the HP claims issue. They continue to knowingly remove capability from cars they have already shipped and backed down on only one of those sets of "counter limits" when they were caught.

I believe Tesla has set its course and told us exactly who they are and how they want to do business. We may not like it. We are free to voice our concerns but it does not appear to me that they are going to alter this path.

 

[bhzmark]

They continue to knowingly remove capability from cars they have already shipped and backed down on only one of those sets of "counter limits" when they were caught.

This implies there are other counter limits which are still in place and limiting power? What are you referring to, and on what basis?

My car has only gotten faster as I've owned it (software and then L upgrade). I understand individual magazine and car mfr published test results and specs as imperfect data points which are extremely minor considerations in an overall buying decision. I can find many other things more worthy of my concern, upset and outrage these days.

 

[lolachampcar]

Stop by your service center (or not) and ask them if there are any other use related limits on the car. You may want to ask them specifically about speed. If they say there are, ask them to share those with you. If they say there are none then you can choose to believe them or not.

I am comfortable with my understanding but in no way suggest you accept my opinion or comments on the subject. Please form your own opinion.

 

[andrewket]

I'm aware of one person who has completed an upgrade from a P90D to P100D. This person's P90D was in transit but not yet delivered when the 100 was announced.

 

[fiksegts]

if you ordered it already you will get it, but no more orders being taken for the upgrade...

Hmm I sent tesla an email requesting the upgrade right after it was announced... as far as I'm aware no one has received an upgrade yet to date... I find it had to believe it was discontinued before it ever happened...