Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[smac]

@Walta I would think Lola's suggestion of integrating over time makes far more sense than all these contrived logic steps.

So my very speculative thoughts along those lines would be:

They have two potential measurements here wheel torque or current draw. Every time the chosen metric is above a threshold start a timer, once the accumulated time goes over a measured interval it decrements your counter.

For non L cars they never reach the threshold (which means they could share the firmware across the range.)

 

[Walta]

@Walta I would think Lola's suggestion of integrating over time makes far more sense than all these contrived logic steps.

So my very speculative thoughts along those lines would be:

They have two potential measurements here wheel torque or current draw. Every time the chosen metric is above a threshold start a timer, once the accumulated time goes over a measured interval it decrements your counter.

For non L cars they never reach the threshold (which means they could share the firmware across the range.)

I agree. Down in the actual code implementing the counter increments, you are dealing with the physics of the launch. And at that level the algorithm gets way more interesting, complex, and dynamic.
Owners need to know at the operator level, how to avoid triggering these counters. If the counter is only triggered when my SOC is above 85%? I might regularly charge to 80% and not change anything else. Though I wonder if that 85% varies on type of battery ( V1,V2 or V3 ) ?

 

[smac]

Owners need to know at the operator level, how to avoid triggering these counters.

I agree 100%. However in doing so they admit the existence of such counters explicitly, rather than the vague wish-washy legalese they currently use.

I think it would be better for them to remove them and just stomach the warranty claims, surely the premium people are paying covers the cost?! (Though of course it may not be the money they are worried about, rather the PR damage if a large number of cars started failing prematurely).

 

[davidc18]

Just WOW. Such agressive and hostile actions against the customers purchasing the highest margin cars. I hope there is much more mainstream media coverage.

 

[Walta]

@davidc18 - per your signature - nice move staying on firmware version 7. I would think that alone bumped the value of your car about $10K. I am never going to do another firmware update, until after I hear feedback from TMC on its impact.

 

[bhzmark]

I was concerned that we would get to this point ( having 2 counters ). With LM and pedal mashing (PM) getting equal performance results, but Tesla only implementing a LM counter did not make much sense. I can imagine the algorithm being designed to handle these counters. We saw earlier what determined a LM counter increment... what increments the PM counter?
LM counter increments when:
1. LM enabled ( Max Battery and Ludicrous assumed ? )
2. SOC > 85 %
3. No slipping at take off

So what about PM?
PM increments when: ?
1. LM NOT enabled ( Max Battery and Ludicrous assumed ? )
2. SOC > 85%
3. No slipping at take off

Will there be partial increments ( like a +.5 ) if 2 out of the 3 are met ?


I was driving into work this morning after reading about the PM counter. I started thinking about the Seinfield episode with Elaine running out of contraceptive sponges, and she was wondering when to use them and with who. She would have to decide if the person was "sponge worthy". I was pulling onto the highway and a new red ferrari was taking off ahead of me... I thought OK that is "PM worthy".

My analysis has been whether my potential vehicular interlocutor is MBP worthy... But just for the bother of going through the screens.

Will see if the decision process has to be more complicated.

 

[Az_Rael]

Dropped my classic P85 off at the service center today. I asked about Tesla's statement and whether or not my car was close to being limited (I bought it used so who knows how the previous owner drove), and if the statement applied to ALL P models. The service advisor hadn't heard of the issue at all, so I showed him the new statement on the website about it. He said he would ask the techs if they were aware, but I am not holding out any hope for more clarity.

So this hasn't fed down to the general service advisors yet.

 

[bhzmark]

Just vow!
So, they've realized that most of the warranty motor replacement cases are caused by instant acceleration. .

Source? I thought those replacements were nearly all pre D cars to which this does not apply.

 

[Andyw2100]

Will there be partial increments ( like a +.5 ) if 2 out of the 3 are met ?

This is getting more ridiculous by the minute.

We shouldn't have to learn to read tea leaves or bring in the psychics to know what Tesla is doing to our $100,000-plus cars.

Talk about Ludicrous and Insane...

 

[St Charles]

I agree with all of you above. I do.

I am also a bit concerned as we making lots of extrapolation off of little data and LOTS of speculation. I do think we should gather some hard data. Perhaps it's time for another round of mass datalogging.

 

[number12]

@davidc18 - per your signature - nice move staying on firmware version 7. I would think that alone bumped the value of your car about $10K. I am never going to do another firmware update, until after I hear feedback from TMC on its impact.

Just wait till SC updates your car without your knowledge. I used to be one of those lucky few on 7.1..

 

[St Charles]

Just wait till SC updates your car without your knowledge. I used to be one of those lucky few on 7.1..

I am deeply concerned about this as well. I'm not ready to leave 7.1

 

[Walta]

With the new knowledge that this is most likely NOT just a LM issue. This has obviously taken a very negative direction for all Tesla owners. The performance car owners, paid top dollar for the performance claimed. The only reason I was willing to drop so much coin on my P90DL was to drive a car in the performance class of the very few quickest cars in the world. Compared to cars in that class it was easy for me to justify the purchase. As of this moment, I do have that car. I enjoy EVERY minute driving it hard. I was told since day one by Tesla, that I can drive it hard. Now this.

I have been told by my service agent, that my questions related to this issue have been presented to the engineers. I requested that they tell me exactly how I am supposed to drive the car to avoid any reduction in power. When I hear back I will post it here.

 

[P85DEE]

I agree with all of you above. I do.

I am also a bit concerned as we making lots of extrapolation off of little data and LOTS of speculation. I do think we should gather some hard data. Perhaps it's time for another round of mass datalogging.

Wait a minute.......

Has anyone else noticed that the P90DL that got hit by this matter was one of type which was making more power than previous P90DL cars before?

I'm now wondering if that's coincidence.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

I requested that they tell me exactly how I am supposed to drive the car to avoid any reduction in power. When I hear back I will post it here.

Answer:

 

[Walta]

Answer:

View attachment 209396

I had to vote "funny" ... I couldn't find the "I just pee'd my pants funny" button.

 

[xborg]

Owners need to know at the operator level, how to avoid triggering these counters.

Oh it is easy! Just drive with Insane mode.
Or switch to Lud. and never floor it.
I guess Tesla thinks that people who paid for Ludicrous has done it for the underlined badge.

 

[lolachampcar]

NOLA,
Every now and then someone really knocks one out of the park. You win the internet on this one

 

[NOLA_Mike]

I had to vote "funny" ... I couldn't find the "I just pee'd my pants funny" button.

Just know that I am not trying to make light of your (and others) situation either, sometimes you just have to enter a little levity and humor in to the situation (like the P falling off which I'm still laughing about)...

Cheers,
Mike

 

[smac]

Source? I thought those replacements were nearly all pre D cars to which this does not apply.

My lowly 60, last of the classics (31-Jul-14) so should be fitted with the "shim fix", has needed a new motor and driveshafts. Given it's 1 motor is still putting out less wheel torque than the P85D's rear motor is capable of (which AFAIK is the same motor), I still think it's a potential weak spot.

One reason I was, and now more so, considering a non-performance D.

Disclaimer: My usage has been doing 48 stop lights over a 14 mile commute day in day out (and I have used a good portion performance at most of those ). The saving grace is IF i did get a P, for the same acceleration it would be shared between the axles, which at least for road use is more than ample.