Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[JLan]

I dont care where they are on the totem pole.. the fact that there was no disclaimer when I order it plus the statement from an employee I'm writing gives me all the confidence I need to feel like tesla isn't going to **** me. Others may not feel the same way but personally... I feel satisfied.

 

[Tech_Guy]

Thanks for the info.
Approximately how many times did you use launch mode? Sorry if I missed a previous answer.

I have no idea, I've requested my counters which includes a launch counter but from what we have heard a few times so far is that the launch counter can be triggered in multiple ways. Launch mode, max battery mode without launch mode, or just ludicrous mode can all trigger and add to the launch counter!

The real problem here is we have no idea what the perimeters are for these counters meaning how they are coded to trigger an event. There are likely many situations that can trigger an event but without these perimeters we are all in the dark.

heres a few guess examples these are not fact just an example of what might to get you thinking...

maybe a counter is triggered every time you floor the car?
and/or
maybe a counter get triggered every time you floor the car for more then X seconds?
and/or
or maybe its triggered over a certain amperage usage...

it could be combinations as well, Event triggers could be strings of certain situations together that would trigger an event.... Basically an if than else statement...

maybe if you start at 0 mph and your flooring the car and it reaches a certan speed than event is triggered... else no count...

its all speculation at this point without the actual perimeters of these counters... How do we find this out? We need clarity from Tesla on this which they claim to provide clear communications with their customers!

I'm still waiting maybe they are sending smoke signals...

 

[NSX1992]

When I asked my status on my P85DL the service technicians were looking at a list of vin numbers not arranged chronologically but could not find me. Now it makes sense that that list were for cars affected by the power reduction which now can lead to the conclusion that more than one has been affected. But they could not tell me how many runs were counted on my car. So even if you did not make the list today you may in the future.

 

[Tech_Guy]

I dont care where they are on the totem pole.. the fact that there was no disclaimer when I order it plus the statement from an employee I'm writing gives me all the confidence I need to feel like tesla isn't going to **** me. Others may not feel the same way but personally... I feel satisfied.

If your happy with that its fine do what you will I was just pointing out that id think something in writing from a manager would carry more clout then a salesman...

 

[AWDtsla]

I think Tesla's exposure on this topic probably goes back to the very first P85D that was sold, all their ludicrous upgrades, and every P car since. I think Tesla is very very likely to stay silent on the topic, unless forced by other means.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The delivery specialist is quite low on the totem pole no offense to them but I really wouldn't trust anything they say in regards to the engineering or programing of the car! Try reaching out to a Service Manager or Regional Manager. If they are unaware or unsure as they most likely are, push for them to confirm with the engineers at Fremont and provide a writen answer... My recent call we discussed possible resolutions for my case and they confirmed the p100d limits as well even if I upgraded, so basically id be in the same situation with a 100 as I am now with my p90dl... I was hoping the 100 would remove these restrictions /limits /counters/ etc as well but that is not the case!

Mis-information is everywhere on this as no one knows about it... My service manager originally said the 100 wouldn't be limited in writing months ago but then reversed what he said after talking to the regional manager and engineering team this week! So it could even be a matter of constantly changing information as this comes to the surface.

Thank you for the update.

Your info that P100D "not affected" was the one outlier that didn't fit with the rest of the anecdotal data points on P100D...

Now that your source is also saying P100D is affected, it is pretty safe to start assuming if really is affected.

The P85D being affected as well (other post) is rather disturbing too, if so.

 

[AWDtsla]

Thank you for the update.

Your info that P100D "not affected" was the one outlier that didn't fit with the rest of the anecdotal data points on P100D...

Now that your source is also saying P100D is affected, it is pretty safe to start assuming if really is affected.

The P85D being affected as well (other post) is rather disturbing too, if so.

Even if Tesla officially confirms today that it's not affected, how do you know they won't change their mind next year?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Even if Tesla officially confirms today that it's not affected, how do you know they won't change their mind next year?

I don't, obviously.

But I guess with @Tech_Guy's original messaging some of us still held out hope that whatever was wrong with P90DL (or with P85D), Tesla managed to fix it in P100D and that an upgrade would be a solution. And if they fixed the fundamentals, going back to counters would not be needed. I was already of the opinion this was unlikely, though, and @Tech_Guy now put such dreams to rest.

What's the solution now? A non-P? A Bolt? Valet mode?

 

[smac]

What's the solution now? A non-P? A Bolt? Valet mode?

For me an S60 and a track toy

 

[AnxietyRanger]

For me an S60 and a track toy

On that note, maybe the solution is this?

Anki OVERDRIVE

I want Mommy!

 

[FlatSix911]

Thank you for the update.
Your info that P100D "not affected" was the one outlier that didn't fit with the rest of the anecdotal data points on P100D...
Now that your source is also saying P100D is affected, it is pretty safe to start assuming if really is affected.
The P85D being affected as well (other post) is rather disturbing too, if so.

Even if Tesla officially confirms today that it's not affected, how do you know they won't change their mind next year?

Agreed. Here was the official response from Tesla posted on Electrek ...
Tesla confirms that it limits the power of performance vehicles after too many launches with ‘launch mode’ [Updated]

He then shared the response he received from a Tesla representative:
“Thank you for your time. To recap our conversation, using launch mode places an increased stress on the entire powertrain accelerating aging and fatigue of various components. The computer systems automatically track launch mode usage and continually estimate fatigue damage. Depending on how launch mode is used, the computer may eventually limit the available power during launch mode to protect the powertrain. Note that this is a common strategy also employed in other high performance cars. As discussed, upgrading to the P100D ludicrous will remove this limit and will not be limited in the future as the P100D does not have this limit for launch mode.”

 

[davidc18]

Really disappointed in the Electrek coverage which is nothing other than a quick rehash of this thread. I expected more of fred on this topic.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Agreed. Here was the official response from Tesla posted on Electrek ...
Tesla confirms that it limits the power of performance vehicles after too many launches with ‘launch mode’ [Updated]

He then shared the response he received from a Tesla representative:
“Thank you for your time. To recap our conversation, using launch mode places an increased stress on the entire powertrain accelerating aging and fatigue of various components. The computer systems automatically track launch mode usage and continually estimate fatigue damage. Depending on how launch mode is used, the computer may eventually limit the available power during launch mode to protect the powertrain. Note that this is a common strategy also employed in other high performance cars. As discussed, upgrading to the P100D ludicrous will remove this limit and will not be limited in the future as the P100D does not have this limit for launch mode.”

Yes, I think it would be useful for @FredLambert to get an update on this explored since we have learned since then that it does not just affect launch mode (also other full throttles and even rolling mashes)... and it apparently also affects P100D. So this is much wider and bigger potential issue than was lead on initially.

This topic could certainly use a investigative touch people could read instead of browsing through a long thread like this.

Unfortunately it seems Electrek or Teslarati or the like may not be wishing to touch this. I am sure they have noticed all the latest by now.

 

[hostman]

Apologies for the cross-post but it was requested. I'm on a 2015 P85DL, and I'm seeing 415kW max with a clean launch and 99% SoC with max battery 'ready.' Seems like something screwy is going on here.

Max Power vs State of Charge and Temp

 

[AWDtsla]

Has been offered a 100 Ludicrous replacement pack for sale from Tesla yet?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Thank you @hostman.

So your P85DL now makes 415 kW with max battery ready.

Correct me (anyone) if I am wrong but it should be 451 kW and even without max battery 426 kW.

So it is down 41 kW? So -55 hp? Ten percent loss?

Seems to be in line with the first degradation step @Tech_Guy got before his P90DL was further degraded to around -100 hp.

 

[smac]

On that note, maybe the solution is this?

Anki OVERDRIVE

I want Mommy!

Cool, not seen that before.

I wonder if one of the weapons is to be able to remotely reduce your opponents power !

 

[lolachampcar]

Apologies for the cross-post but it was requested. I'm on a 2015 P85DL, and I'm seeing 415kW max with a clean launch and 99% SoC with max battery 'ready.' Seems like something screwy is going on here.

Max Power vs State of Charge and Temp

View attachment 210715

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!



For everyone wondering if we are working ourselves up over a tempest in a tea pot, it is likely all DLs driven as any normal driver would their AMG or M Series will see a Tesla driven artificial power reduction well within the 8 year unlimited mile warranty. For me, it is not IF but WHEN.

With respect to AR's post below, just try to reach out and grab 10% of the car's available torque across the whole rev range from an AMG or M Series owner. Be careful when you do as you are likely to get a fork in your hand That's is what happens when you pull 100 amps off the top on a BeV. Anything past the initial current ramp gets hit.

Lastly, for anyone wondering why this thread is still alive I can help you with that. I'm guessing we will have over fifty owners documenting power reductions on this thread over the next six months. More owners questioning power (today) will find their way here and some of us already here will be adding our data.

I hope nobody minds me keeping my original post on TM current with direct owner/Tesla quotes. If anyone does, please let me know and I will delete any links. It's just super easy to edit the OP and keep all links in one place.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

A 10-15% hp degradation based on these two examples of around 55-100 hp loss on P85DL/P90DL.

Readons outside counters are of course possible still, but could 10-15% be a working theory?

If it is 10-15% permanent power loss, anyone think its low enough to not be an issue?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

For everyone wondering if we are working ourselves up over a tempest in a tea pot, it is likely all DLs driven as any normal driver would their AMG or M Series will see a Tesla driven artificial power reduction well within the 8 year unlimited mile warranty. For me, it is not IF but WHEN.

With respect to AR's post below, just try to reach out and grab 10% of the car's available torque across the whole rev range from an AMG or M Series owner. Be careful when you do as you are likely to get a fork in your hand That's is what happens when you pull 100 amps off the top on a BeV. Anything past the initial current ramp gets hit.

So that would be a no from you?

I have to admit, I think this is starting to look as bad as it, well, looks.

Double-digit percentage performance losses after mere months or year+ of ownership is a bit hard on the palette.