Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[lolachampcar]

FYI
The used McLaren market is soft for the early 12Cs. The car will run 10s and is bloody quick. I've seen the ECU code and rest assured there are no counter related power reductions. I guess McLaren is the ONLY OTHER OEM not doing this

 

[Tech_Guy]

Agreed. Here was the official response from Tesla posted on Electrek ...
Tesla confirms that it limits the power of performance vehicles after too many launches with ‘launch mode’ [Updated]

He then shared the response he received from a Tesla representative:
“Thank you for your time. To recap our conversation, using launch mode places an increased stress on the entire powertrain accelerating aging and fatigue of various components. The computer systems automatically track launch mode usage and continually estimate fatigue damage. Depending on how launch mode is used, the computer may eventually limit the available power during launch mode to protect the powertrain. Note that this is a common strategy also employed in other high performance cars. As discussed, upgrading to the P100D ludicrous will remove this limit and will not be limited in the future as the P100D does not have this limit for launch mode.”

just to clarify that was the response that I received in an email from Tesla that they used in their article. The same person has now changed their tune and said that all cars are effected including the 100. So even upgradeing to the 100 I would eventually hit power reduction and counters all over again.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Apologies for the cross-post but it was requested. I'm on a 2015 P85DL, and I'm seeing 415kW max with a clean launch and 99% SoC with max battery 'ready.'

Thanks for cross-posting. So much better to keep the discussion in this massive thread.

I'll restate my recommendation:

Make an appointment with your service rep complaining that the Ludicrous mode is no longer working. I would not talk about any counters, etc. Just an expectation that this "failure" is covered under warranty. Everyone will be VERY interested in Tesla's response.

 

[smac]

For everyone wondering if we are working ourselves up over a tempest in a tea pot, it is likely all DLs driven as any normal driver would their AMG or M Series will see a Tesla driven artificial power reduction well within the 8 year unlimited mile warranty. .

One mitigating aspect may be that the ownership period will be shorter, with a churn rate within the 50k mile bumper to bumper warranty rather than the full 8 year drive train one.

Not sure what it looks like in the US, but here people buying AMG / M's from new tend to swap them out after 3 years. If this is also true of the P demographic it would give Tesla more of an opportunity to CPO them out without the Ludicrous spec.

It's very anecdotal, but speaking to a few fellow UK owners, I get the feeling those planning on keeping the car long periods of time are going for the non-P's. Those wealthy enough to get the P's are fully intending to hand them back at the end of the finance term / warranty / or even just when a better one comes out.

(Not that I think this makes it alright, but Tesla seem to be playing the numbers on this)

 

[Jeffgtx]

What about cars that do not have smart air suspension that supposedly cannot be upgraded?

 

[vip gts]

All this makes me think twice about my model 3 reservation.
I wonder what will be in store for that model.
Cut range by 25% after 6 months to save the battery?

 

[Old Man Mike]

Just another note about what appears to be the second case of a power cutback. Both of the effected owners have used the special Launch Mode. In fact, the P85L owner's pictures show that Launch mode was enabled during his test. I know that there is evidence that multiple counters are maintained covering simple foot down accelerations, but perhaps we should be refocusing on the special Launch Mode counter since this may be what has caused both cutbacks.

It sure would be interesting to get an estimate from both Hostman and Tech_guy on the number of times they have used the special Launch Mode.

 

[Tech_Guy]

What about cars that do not have smart air suspension that supposedly cannot be upgraded?

Maybe you missed the message but even upgradeing to the 100 the car would still be effected so the 20k upgrade to a 100 would not be a permanent solution but a temporary one. You are correct that non air suspension cars can't upgrade the 100 but even if you could you would eventually be limited again...!!!

 

[CraZ8]

So wait, even with my P85DL only allowing 1500 amps I'm still going to be limited after x number of hard launches? ( never used launch mode per se) ok now I'm pissed and worried. Even AMG, Ferrari ,BMW M sports etc may limit the number of launches but it's usually just time limited over minutes or hours but not permanently. I see some very bad press ahead if Tesla does not get in front of this quickly.

 

[Tech_Guy]

So wait, even with my P85DL only allowing 1500 amps I'm still going to be limited after x number of hard launches? ( never used launch mode per se) ok now I'm pissed and worried. Even AMG, Ferrari ,BMW M sports etc may limit the number of launches but it's usually just time limited over minutes or hours but not permanently. I see some very bad press ahead if Tesla does not get in front of this quickly.

Correct! Also apparently it's counting not just launch mode but also launches from a stop in max battery mode as well as just in ludicrous mode all those count towards a limit

 

[lolachampcar]

CraZ8
First they came for the P90DLV3, then the P90DLs, then the P100DLs but it was only when they came after my P85DL that I got pissed

I say that jokingly as I was in the same boat. The only difference for me was that I have seen enough of Tesla's shenanigans to know the P85DL was likely included.

 

[smac]

Correct! Also apparently it's counting not just launch mode but also launches from a stop in max battery mode as well as just in ludicrous mode all those count towards a limit

Is it from a stop or just 100% WOT when max battery is on?

 

[Tech_Guy]

Is it from a stop or just 100% WOT when max battery is on?

Service advisor just gave me credible info.

3 counters

One for Launches/WOT over 1500 amps. (I have 92 and have never used launch mode)

One for rolling mashes that are hard but under 1500 amps (mine is 134)

One for "mixture" (mine is 311.6)

They are protecting wire bonds.

625 is hard cut for Launches.

Rolling mashes counts towards mixture. Cut is 3068 for Mixture limit.

and

I'm a p100d owner...
" Using Launch Mode, max battery power mode or to a lesser degree ludicrous settings with full accelerations places an increased stress on the entire powertrain, accelerating aging and fatigue of various components. The vehicle monitors these factors and adjusts available power accordingly to protect the systems. This is the normal operation of the vehicle as it is designed"

I feel that this is the best info we have gotten on the counters to date...

 

[yak-55]

I dont care where they are on the totem pole.. the fact that there was no disclaimer when I order it plus the statement from an employee I'm writing gives me all the confidence I need to feel like tesla isn't going to **** me. Others may not feel the same way but personally... I feel satisfied.

Prepare to get screwed. Perhaps you'll find it satisfying.

 

[NikeWings]

Maybe you missed the message but even upgradeing to the 100 the car would still be effected so the 20k upgrade to a 100 would not be a permanent solution but a temporary one. You are correct that non air suspension cars can't upgrade the 100 but even if you could you would eventually be limited again...!!!

Not having rec'd my 100 yet, I submitted by FedX to Tesla a request to confirm their position relating to my build. It's been delivered/signed for, but not responded to yet. I am overwhelmed by inconsistent information (not doubting your issue at all TG) and only have leverage to exert before I accept delivery. Hope to hear soon but if not, it's easier to recover a forfeited $2.5Kdeposit in small claims court (with my paper trail) than to recover $150K against pockets many times deeper than mine.

Disappointed.

 

[lolachampcar]

Just a quick note about the limiting.
Most people think in ICE terms where you loose "75 hp".
In this case, you may indeed loose 75 peak hp.
More importantly, you are loosing say 100 amps which nails not only peak power but the available power at any point past the initial current limited launch region.
It is a small distinction but one that I would think makes the Tesla reduction a more "feelable" change.

 

[lolachampcar]

NikeWings,
What will you do if the response is the disclaimer from the web site verbatim?

 

[NikeWings]

NikeWings,
What will you do if the response is the disclaimer from the web site verbatim?

Quite possible and a situation we've discussed. My attorney will follow up on my letter with a lawyer letter to ensure I am protected and the conditions necessary for satisfaction, inclusive of periodic data disclosure and a host of other attorney tech speak. Any balking to conditions or deviation from the public disclaimer, and I walk. And as we've also discussed, we expect they will balk and therefore, I walk. I'm not interested in a battle.

 

[hostman]

Just another note about what appears to be the second case of a power cutback. Both of the effected owners have used the special Launch Mode. In fact, the P85L owner's pictures show that Launch mode was enabled during his test. I know that there is evidence that multiple counters are maintained covering simple foot down accelerations, but perhaps we should be refocusing on the special Launch Mode counter since this may be what has caused both cutbacks.

It sure would be interesting to get an estimate from both Hostman and Tech_guy on the number of times they have used the special Launch Mode.

I have probably done a thousand? I've gone to car shows where I'll set up a short drag strip and take the parents and kids both ways with Launch, probably 0-30mph, and I've done over 100 in a day * 2 ways = ~200 launches in a day. So probably over the three events maybe 600 plus hundreds more of demos to clients, interested Tesla buyers, etc, etc. I rarely use launch mode on the road as it is very annoying/inconsistent to get into. Once I had a Civic pull up and want to see it and it went into some limiter mode due to both pedals being pressed and it was singularly unimpressive... (ie. the Civic was keeping up for the first couple of seconds, wtf!)

 

[AWDtsla]

I have probably done a thousand? I've gone to car shows where I'll set up a short drag strip and take the parents and kids both ways with Launch, probably 0-30mph, and I've done over 100 in a day * 2 ways = ~200 launches in a day. So probably over the three events maybe 600 plus hundreds more of demos to clients, interested Tesla buyers, etc, etc. I rarely use launch mode on the road as it is very annoying/inconsistent to get into. Once I had a Civic pull up and want to see it and it went into some limiter mode due to both pedals being pressed and it was singularly unimpressive... (ie. the Civic was keeping up for the first couple of seconds, wtf!)

... so basically promoting Tesla.