Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Parked at 50% SOC... shows 54% SOC 30 mins later without being plugged in?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Keep in mind these calculations are only just a ballpark estimate and you can’t take the exact number at face value. The car doesn’t show any decimals and rounding errors can cause a significant change in the results.

For example

264.5 x 52.5 / 0.204 = 68.070 kW

Or

265.4 x 53.4 / 0.195 = 72.679 kW
This!! Thank you so much for sharing that! I've been racking my brain to figure out the discrepancy.

While the number didn't go up this time on percentage... it stayed exactly where it was literally toggling between 19-20%.

I've attached pics that show it with both percentages.

If you do the math it's showing on 19 percent... It comes out like this.

265x53/ 0.19 = 73.921... nearly 74kwh!! This number is what I expected and makes me very happy!

When we do the math at 20 percent ... it comes out like this.

265x53/.20 = 70.225 ... This number me no likey!!! 😂

This is showing exactly what I've been having such a hard time conveying?

I wouldn't care if it was a 1/2 a KWH or even a KWH discrepancy.

I very much do care about a 4 KWH difference!!

Question is, which is correct? It's staying in 19 now? Is that my answer? Lol!! This, is what's been driving me so crazy!!
Really hope you guys understand why I've been wanting to go back and forth about it. I'm certain others are seeing this too!!

Maybe they're thinking they have much more degradation than thet actually do... based on what we're seeing right here! 🤔
 

Attachments

  • 20240418_224921.jpg
    20240418_224921.jpg
    183.2 KB · Views: 7
  • 20240418_225054.jpg
    20240418_225054.jpg
    182.8 KB · Views: 4
  • 20240418_230026.jpg
    20240418_230026.jpg
    193 KB · Views: 6
When I read these long discussions about batteries I come to the conclusion that OCD people shouldn't drive these cars. I'm pretty analytical in nature (engineer), but I've chosen to avoid getting into the details of battery technology and charging etc. It is pretty complex, and Teslas are good at efficiently managing the batteries and power use, so I let the car do it without me interfering. The range shown in the battery level indicator on the screen is, as has been stated, just a mathematical approximation. The best way of knowing range is to set a destination and see what the car calculates the charge level will likely be when you get there.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: KenC
It's better to quickly estimate degradation/current full capacity from your "Estimated miles" at 100% charge. The closer to 0% SOC the greater the error is going to be because you're dividing by a tiny number. Imagine you're at 1% SOC and it says 4 miles, or it could say 2 miles. Either you have 400 miles or 200 miles range at full - and neither will be correct!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mechsmoto
Question is, which is correct? It's staying in 19 now? Is that my answer? Lol!! This, is what's been driving me so crazy!!
Really hope you guys understand why I've been wanting to go back and forth about it. I'm certain others are seeing this too!!
I'd just use the energy method sticky at a high SOC as explained. You're basically doing this already, but it's important to avoid rounding error. Note that it is also possible to get a fractional SOC% value from some of the other newer energy pages (which did not exist at the time of sticky creation) at times. This may help reduce error but I'm not sure, since I haven't tried. For example, it may tell you whether you are at 19.3% vs. 19.5% or whatever.

Anyway it's best to just do all of these estimates with a pretty full pack. The rated miles at 100% are a direct reflection of your BMS's best estimate of capacity. The number can go up an down by a couple % over short periods of time, but the general trend is downwards.

Your pack was probably NOT rebalancing when making your observed adjustment. It was just substituting in a new estimate for the known-to-be-less-accurate dead reckoning estimate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mechsmoto
Awesome discussion! Thanks so much for being willing to bounce ideas back and forth.

I hear what you're saying, and in theory... it should be what youre describing.

Thing is, I'm super OCD on the miles thing. I can assure you that once the BMS decides for example... 282 is full charge. 50 percent of that will always be 141.

The BMS makes its adjustments based on many things I'm sure. But it is directly related to the miles.
The BMS does "Coulomb counting", measuring charge in and out of the battery, simultaneously with voltage. That uses electronics that has some inaccuracy. But those numbers, plus open pack cell voltage (available only when in deep sleep) are the only physical observations available on board the car.

There is no direct physical meter for either the (a) actual current state of charge, or (b) the total energy capacity available. Those would require insight into atomic level condition of the battery cells available only in a laboratory and for (b) further dynamical experimentation. And yes everything changes with temperature as well.

Point being, when I arrived home it saw 141 and showed 50% SOC because that is exactly half of what it's expecting the total capacity to be.

Please keep following me here. Once it settled, it realizes it doesn't have 141 miles worth of energy available. It actually has 150 miles worth of energy available.

Instead to just stay at 50% SOC and allow the miles to change. It stays stuck on there can only be 141 at 50% SOC and increases that number instead.

Yes, there are two options for adjustment as you have understood correctly, but there's a reason it works as it does.

There are two uncertainties as mentioned above: current state of charge, and total full pack energy. The current state of charge is much more likely the one to develop inaccuracy in the short term and is what is adjusted. The estimate of the total full pack energy does eventually change with time, but that is an estimation period of weeks to months, so it takes a while for this to be adjusted, but eventually it will be.

The total pack full energy physically changes only very slowly---unless you have a catastrophic battery fault---so it's the state of charge estimate which is adjusted faster, and that is what you saw.

To get the full pack energy estimate adjusted you want the car to go into deep sleep at a wide variety of state of charge from 90% to 10%. At some point the algorithm decides upon a recalibration either up or down on full pack energy. It's unpredictable, slow, and no way to trigger it on your own but over time it is approximately right. Sometimes the full pack energy estimated will be below truth, sometimes above.

The algorithms for doing these are non-trivial and a product of years/decades of fundamental battery research science. In sum, the car is working correctly as designed, and there's a reason for it.