Performance or not!

[MXWing]

Does that software work? If yes, do you agree that the same thing could happen for the regular dual motor Model 3, devaluing the Performance version?

To clarify- you had to take your car into the service center to get it uncorked.

Tesla had no financial reason to do this, so it didn't make sense for them to ever offer it.

I'm thankful though they did it for me and others.

I would take a short call position easily against Tesla NOT doing this for the AWD Model 3. If they were to hypothetically do it, you wouldn't want to the pay the price for doing so.

 

[P85_DA]

The software did work but Tesla also never offered a 75D and a P75D for sale ..my point was that was a freebie they threw out there ...in this case Tesla clearly differentiates selling a AWD and A P3D

 

[TurnFast]

After researching this a bit. It's my belief that the standard awd is limited both in hardware and software.
Ingineer made some interesting teardown videos where he found the inverter for the rear motor in a standard awd is rated at 500 amps instead of the 800 amps in the P.

At the same time I don’t think this inverter difference can be solely responsible for the full second difference. Much like people were finding the RWD could put up 0-60 times in the 4.8 range until a later OTA update corrected this back down to the listed 5.1 time. I think the standard awd has a lot more headroom and could go faster, but if tesla allowed that, it would canibalize performance model sales. So even if you see people claiming the standard awd can go faster than tesla claims, don't count on that always being the case.

I don’t think Tesla will ever allow making the standard awd faster than it is (unless something crazy happens in the market like porche decides to sell the mission E for like 50k) as that would canibalize sales of the performance.

So long story short in my opinion:
The standard awd at 4.5 0-60 is still very fast
The standard awd us unlikely to get faster
If you want faster you should go for the P3D now

All that being said, I still stare at my AWD config almost daily and contemplate changing.

 

[P85_DA]

So long story short in my opinion:
The standard awd at 4.5 0-60 is still very fast
The standard awd us unlikely to get faster
If you want faster you should go for the P3D now

All that being said, I still stare at my AWD config almost daily and contemplate changing.

Well summary of two pages...and don’t contemplate get the P

 

[Quickturtle]

After researching this a bit. It's my belief that the standard awd is limited both in hardware and software.
Ingineer made some interesting teardown videos where he found the inverter for the rear motor in a standard awd is rated at 500 amps instead of the 800 amps in the P.

Sorry, but Ingineerix was just speculating and did not claim he had data to prove it. The video you're referencing suggests something different: that the front and rear inverters of the performance model might be the same (he suggests that around the 25 sec mark), as well as the same as the RWD inverter. If the 800 vs 500 A claim is in the video, could you reference the time stamp (not being snarky, I could have missed it).

 

[MXWing]

Sorry, but Ingineerix was purely speculating and did not try to back up his claim with any data. The video you're referencing suggests something different: that the front and rear inverters of the performance model might be the same (he suggests that around the 25 sec mark), as well as the same as the RWD inverter. If the 800 vs 500 A claim is in the video, could you reference the time stamp (not being snarky, I could have missed it).

Do you have a base that would make you qualified to dispute Ingineerix?

Not a slam, I just want to know the truth on everything no matter what it may be.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

Another way to look at it -

If Tesla produces a software upgrade (purchased or free) to make AWD faster, they’ll likely do the same on the P to keep the performance delta at least as wide as it is today.

Since you only plan to keep the car 3 years, get what you want today. Hoping something becomes available tomorrow for such a short term of ownership is largely irrelevant as you’ll likely be eyeing a replacement not far from then.

EDIT: Also not sure if insurance would be more on the P as they have identical VIN’s.

 

[MXWing]

After researching this a bit. It's my belief that the standard awd is limited both in hardware and software.
Ingineer made some interesting teardown videos where he found the inverter for the rear motor in a standard awd is rated at 500 amps instead of the 800 amps in the P.

At the same time I don’t think this inverter difference can be solely responsible for the full second difference. Much like people were finding the RWD could put up 0-60 times in the 4.8 range until a later OTA update corrected this back down to the listed 5.1 time. I think the standard awd has a lot more headroom and could go faster, but if tesla allowed that, it would canibalize performance model sales. So even if you see people claiming the standard awd can go faster than tesla claims, don't count on that always being the case.

I don’t think Tesla will ever allow making the standard awd faster than it is (unless something crazy happens in the market like porche decides to sell the mission E for like 50k) as that would canibalize sales of the performance.

So long story short in my opinion:
The standard awd at 4.5 0-60 is still very fast
The standard awd us unlikely to get faster
If you want faster you should go for the P3D now

All that being said, I still stare at my AWD config almost daily and contemplate changing.

If you hold your cars for 5 years or more - easy choice. 11K amortized over a 4 year loan is not that much in exchange for Disneyland in your garage.

 

[P85_DA]

Another way to look at it -

If Tesla produces a software upgrade (purchased or free) to make AWD faster, they’ll likely do the same on the P to keep

Or...... subscribe to @NathanielHrnblwr thread and wait for that illusive video to show to help the decision

 

[Quickturtle]

Do you have a base that would make you qualified to dispute Ingineerix?

Not a slam, I just want to know the truth on everything no matter what it may be.

I'm actually not disputing him in the slightest. I'm just correcting your statement that he "found" that the inverters have different amperages. He simply suggested that that would be one of several ways to give the P-AWD more power. Please correct me if you think I'm wrong - I'd gladly update my understanding of what Ingineerix has said.

 

[NathanielHrnblwr]

Or...... subscribe to @NathanielHrnblwr thread and wait for that illusive video to show to help the decision

LOL. I’m not sure what’s harder to accomplish - more videos or getting Tesla to change my order to a P!

 

[P85_DA]

@Quickturtle your best bet is get the P3 ...put on Turo few days a month as there will be demand to drive that ..and you can enjoy as well ...

 

[MXWing]

@Quickturtle your best bet is get the P3 ...put on Turo few days a month as there will be demand to drive that ..and you can enjoy as well ...

I considered it for all of 10 seconds.

RIP your tires after every rental.

 

[TurnFast]

Sorry, but Ingineerix was just speculating and did not claim he had data to prove it. The video you're referencing suggests something different: that the front and rear inverters of the performance model might be the same (he suggests that around the 25 sec mark), as well as the same as the RWD inverter. If the 800 vs 500 A claim is in the video, could you reference the time stamp (not being snarky, I could have missed it).

Sorry for the confusion, he comments that that's the case in the comments section for that video (I would link it but I don’t know how to link to a specific YouTube comment). If you doubt what he has to say that's your prerogative, I've personally not found any reasons to doubt him.

Ignoring the software vs hardware debate though, at this point I think there are pretty good marketing reasons for Tesla to never make the standard awd version faster. I guess a competitor could emerge in the future that forces them to be more competitive, but it would be unwise to bet on that being the case.

In my personal analysis, the hardware vs software limitation debate is kind moot, regardless the outcome you should still buy the performance level you want upfront.

 

[Quickturtle]

No worries, and thanks for clarifying. Could you copy&paste what he wrote? I just went through the comment section and honestly can't find reference to 500A or 800A inverters or anything like that. Thanks

Sorry for the confusion, he comments that that's the case in the comments section for that video (I would link it but I don’t know how to link to a specific YouTube comment). If you doubt what he has to say that's your prerogative, I've personally not found any reasons to doubt him.

Ignoring the software vs hardware debate though, at this point I think there are pretty good marketing reasons for Tesla to never make the standard awd version faster. I guess a competitor could emerge in the future that forces them to be more competitive, but it would be unwise to bet on that being the case.

In my personal analysis, the hardware vs software limitation debate is kind moot, regardless the outcome you should still buy the performance level you want upfront.

 

[TurnFast]

He wrote this in response to Michael Leitner

"We are talking about 3 here, not S, but the rear inverter is tuned to 800A for performance, and only 500A for normal."

 

[ulrichw]

He wrote this in response to Michael Leitner

"We are talking about 3 here, not S, but the rear inverter is tuned to 800A for performance, and only 500A for normal."

This information appears to be a guess on his part: From his older reddit thread:
"It isn't in total. AWD will have 2 drive units, and RWD only one, but the power split on AWD allows the rear motor to be a bit smaller. So (I'm guessing here, since no AWD's in the wild): 500A + 500A for AWD, vs. 800A RWD."

(r/teslamotors - Model 3 Teardown Videos (youtube))

In the video the car he mentions as a comparison is his RWD model 3, not an AWD.

 

[TurnFast]

Are we debating this because it's a fun academic exercise, or because we're trying to base our purchase how likely it is that an AWD will get a speed increase (paid or free) in the future?

 

[P85_DA]

likely it is that an AWD will get a speed increase (paid or free) in the future

OP thinks this ^^^

 

[Jedi2155]

If you hold your cars for 5 years or more - easy choice. 11K amortized over a 4 year loan is not that much in exchange for Disneyland in your garage.

This is exactly how I plan to present it to my wife! Cheaper than 10 annual passes LOL. She saw her 1st Model 3 when she went to Disneyland for the first time and I kept thinking how much better the 3 would be than the "Cars" ride she loved in California adventure haha.

LOL. I’m not sure what’s harder to accomplish - more videos or getting Tesla to change my order to a P!

I managed to get Tesla to get my almost delivered RWD to a P =D. Talking to my rep this morning, they managed to waive the fee, re-assigned the RWD vehicle off my account (I don't see it anymore). I'll be paying $500 more for the Blue color price increase and $200 increase in delivery fee, and lose premium connectivity. But I found a way to reduce a hit to some of those increases through a personal referral code >_>....