Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car

[sleepydoc]

I have to imagine that PB is much less of an occurrence under FSD beta, since the beta brain is significantly more advanced than the non-beta brain.

It's difficult to say for sure but I haven't noticed any difference. I think saying "FSD is significantly more advanced" oversimplifies the issue. There are several different systems/components at play and it's unclear which ones are causing problems, or if it may be due to interactions between the systems.

Yes, that is exactly what I am getting at. I don't know whether or not that is a thing, but if it is then why wouldn't it matter?

From Tesla's standpoint it does since they are theoretically trying to track down the cause of the problem and debug the system. From a user perspective it doesn't matter because there's nothing that can be changed.

my guess is that some areas across the country will probably work much better than others due to training data bias

likely true. I'd guess that a circle around Elon Musk's home and Tesla Headquarters is going to be much better studied!

 

[WhiteWi]

Was using AP on local 2 way road and sure it dropped 1Mph for oncoming big truck. No crazy drop in speed just tiny Cautious slow down. My speed was 40 Mph in 35 zone. Not sure why people report crazy drops in speed for incoming trucks. Also wonder if locations are major factors.

 

[DayTrippin]

Was using AP on local 2 way road and sure it dropped 1Mph for oncoming big truck. No crazy drop in speed just tiny Cautious slow down. My speed was 40 Mph in 35 zone. Not sure why people report crazy drops in speed for incoming trucks. Also wonder if locations are major factors.

Every system is going to be different even if running on the same exact software version.

Given Tesla's inconsistent quality control, who knows how well everything is aligned from car to car. Even between all the various models. Maybe one car's camera alignment is off which change the perspective. More likely to be an issue the farther out it is.

You would hope that the camera mounts are set up so they can't mess it up each time but who knows.

Having seen first hand with my own vehicles how good and bad it can be, there is a HUGE difference between the ends of the spectrum I experienced. Knock on wood as the saying says, my 3 has been flawless so far. I mean literally not a single incident or even a 1 mph slowdown. Taking a long trip soon and will be curious to see how it does.

 

[DrGriz]

From Tesla's standpoint it does since they are theoretically trying to track down the cause of the problem and debug the system. From a user perspective it doesn't matter because there's nothing that can be changed.

Totally agree.

 

[theganjaguru]

I do not use “autopilot” for this exact reason. It’s trash. But I didn’t buy my car for autopilot. I bought it cause it’s a ton of fun to drive.

I am also fearful someone will shoot me thinking I brake checked them when it was the car screwing up. Got to love houston for that

 

[sleepydoc]

I do not use “autopilot” for this exact reason. It’s trash. But I didn’t buy my car for autopilot. I bought it cause it’s a ton of fun to drive.

I am also fearful someone will shoot me thinking I brake checked them when it was the car screwing up. Got to love houston for that

Except this is not just autopilot, it's 'plain' adaptive cruise where you do the steering. (And that's exactly what happened to me, I effectively brake checked someone.)

 

[paladintodd]

Took the new Model Y on a road trip from Denver to Salt Lake. The TACC was complete garbage between I70 in Utah to Price. Two lane road, car would emergency brake from 70 to 55 for every oncoming semi, emergency beeping going off as well. Absolutely no trouble in the 3 or the S on that drive. Just the new Y.

Got a software update on our return, will foolishly hope that improves things.

 

[Fourdoor]

I would think that AEB would be applying the brakes hard to avoid an imminent collision. That is, your 10-20% regen speed drops were probably not AEB.

My guess is that TACC is primarily concerned with following, but Autosteer (beta) forces the system to take more information (or misinformation) into account.

It is great the FSD enhancements can trickle down to non-FSD functions like TACC, but the problem is that the FSD failures trickle down, too.

For my part, I am on 2022.4.5.3 and after disabling Autosteer (beta), my TACC has been performing pretty well. Only a couple of minor slowdowns. (I have been driving mostly 2-lane roads and suburban arteries.)

I was on 2022.4.5.3 for a month before getting 2022.4.5.17 and it was pretty good in the day but still bad at night. I hope you get a new update soon.

Keith

 

[Fourdoor]

Was using AP on local 2 way road and sure it dropped 1Mph for oncoming big truck. No crazy drop in speed just tiny Cautious slow down. My speed was 40 Mph in 35 zone. Not sure why people report crazy drops in speed for incoming trucks. Also wonder if locations are major factors.

I don't worry about a 1 mph drop myself, they are a mild irritant not a major issue for me, and now they don't even happen on every trip, more like once out of every 75 to 100 miles driven. Most of the time if it hesitates it is something you can feel but doesn't even slow 1 mph any more... just enough that you know the car was startled by something. At this point with my current software 2022.4.5.17 I still sometimes get a 1 mph drop... I don't report that as PB. Back a few software updates ago the same input that now causes a 1 mph drop would have caused a 5 to 10 mph drop (often 15 or 25 mph), and I was getting 1 approximately for every 5 miles driven... that is what we were complaining about. I have noticed that in split sections of road with several lanes going the same direction that the car is much less cautious about cars that are near the dividing line. I had a Van stopped for a left hand turn while I was driving past in the right hand lane with the Van right on the dividing line between our lanes and the car didn't hesitate. I can see this making some people nervous and them complaining to Tesla about it.

Keith

 

[Fourdoor]

Took the new Model Y on a road trip from Denver to Salt Lake. The TACC was complete garbage between I70 in Utah to Price. Two lane road, car would emergency brake from 70 to 55 for every oncoming semi, emergency beeping going off as well. Absolutely no trouble in the 3 or the S on that drive. Just the new Y.

Got a software update on our return, will foolishly hope that improves things.

If it was 2022.4.5.17 you will be pleased with the update.

People with more experience with Tesla's please chime in, are sudden drastic changes common and this is just the first one I have experienced, or is this a reaction to the NHTSA investigation?

I know that they were making incremental improvements to the system as they gathered data from the FSD Beta program, but this sudden change to a system that doesn't PB hardly at all and is less cautious of cars near you that are riding the dividing line makes me wonder if the sudden push rather than slow incremental change is a reaction to the NHTSA investigation.

Keith

 

[theganjaguru]

Except this is not just autopilot, it's 'plain' adaptive cruise where you do the steering. (And that's exactly what happened to me, I effectively brake checked someone.)

Yup… I assumed as much. I use neither after too many phantom braking incidents. Getting flipped off (I probably would have done the same) was my final straw. I don’t trust “autopilot”.

 

[boulder.dude]

Yup… I assumed as much. I use neither after too many phantom braking incidents. Getting flipped off (I probably would have done the same) was my final straw. I don’t trust “autopilot”.

Autopilot saved my butt last night!

I was driving 65mph on a 4 lane interstate (I-70) in sparse traffic (it was 3.30am). Suddenly a car careened into me from behind, striking the rear driver side corner hard. I didn’t see it coming and was massively surprised. The offending careened away and floored it to get away from the scene as fast as possible.

Autopilot held my car dead-center in my lane through the impact. I took the next exit to inspect the car (scratches on the number and fender — very lucky)!

Now I just wish I had Dashcam recording at the time.

 

[DrGriz]

Autopilot saved my butt last night!

I was driving 65mph on a 4 lane interstate (I-70) in sparse traffic (it was 3.30am). Suddenly a car careened into me from behind, striking the rear driver side corner hard. I didn’t see it coming and was massively surprised. The offending careened away and floored it to get away from the scene as fast as possible.

Autopilot held my car dead-center in my lane through the impact. I took the next exit to inspect the car (scratches on the number and fender — very lucky)!

Now I just wish I had Dashcam recording at the time.

Sorry to hear that happened. Glad you are OK and the car sustained as little damage as it did.

 

[Fourdoor]

Anyone else who is on a GOOD software download now afraid of the next update? I don't want a new update that screws up the system again and brings back the PB problem...

Keith

 

[WhiteWi]

Love the new narrative

 

[Fourdoor]

Love the new narrative

Hmmm, my narrative has not changed. I have spent the majority of my ownership experience with horrible software and I was eager for every update hoping that the problem would be resolved. Now I have software that works and I am afraid people who are nervous when the car doesn't react to nearby cars will complain enough to get noticed by Tesla. After all, someone in this thread (I don't think it was you, correct me if I am wrong) asserted that the price of safety is some degree of false positives. Now that we are not getting false positives will the nervous people complain that the car is not as safe as it used to be? If they do, will Tesla listen and dial the sensitivity up again? The software I have now reacts the same as the software I had when I first got the car, and it took 9 months to get back to where I was when I first got the car. The fact that a software update could put me back in PB heII makes me cautious about future software updates.

Keith

 

[WhiteWi]

Hmmm, my narrative has not changed. I have spent the majority of my ownership experience with horrible software and I was eager for every update hoping that the problem would be resolved. Now I have software that works and I am afraid people who are nervous when the car doesn't react to nearby cars will complain enough to get noticed by Tesla. After all, someone in this thread (I don't think it was you, correct me if I am wrong) asserted that the price of safety is some degree of false positives. Now that we are not getting false positives will the nervous people complain that the car is not as safe as it used to be? If they do, will Tesla listen and dial the sensitivity up again? The software I have now reacts the same as the software I had when I first got the car, and it took 9 months to get back to where I was when I first got the car. The fact that a software update could put me back in PB heII makes me cautious about future software updates.

Keith

No it wasn’t me who said that but what you are saying is exactly Tesla way of doing things. Sometimes they fix something and sometimes the break something. But overall it is positive experience at least for our Tesla.

 

[sleepydoc]

No it wasn’t me who said that but what you are saying is exactly Tesla way of doing things. Sometimes they fix something and sometimes the break something. But overall it is positive experience at least for our Tesla.

I used to be more hopeful until I downloaded the V11 UI that improved almost nothing made pretty much everything else worse. Since then I’ve become much more leery about assuming things will continually improve.

I’m still hopeful that PB will improve and sincerely hope it does, but the fact that it’s as much of a problem as it is and the number of stories I’ve read from people who trade in their teslas for a newer model and say ‘holy crap! TACC sucks on my new Tesla!’ makes me less optimistic.

I’m also in the FSD beta program, meaning I get fewer upgrades and get them slower, so that may be ‘hurting’ me a bit in this regard. Everyone’s waiting for 10.11 or 11.0 to come out so we’ll see what changes with that.

 

[WhiteWi]

I used to be more hopeful until I downloaded the V11 UI that improved almost nothing made pretty much everything else worse. Since then I’ve become much more leery about assuming things will continually improve.

I’m still hopeful that PB will improve and sincerely hope it does, but the fact that it’s as much of a problem as it is and the number of stories I’ve read from people who trade in their teslas for a newer model and say ‘holy crap! TACC sucks on my new Tesla!’ makes me less optimistic.

I’m also in the FSD beta program, meaning I get fewer upgrades and get them slower, so that may be ‘hurting’ me a bit in this regard. Everyone’s waiting for 10.11 or 11.0 to come out so we’ll see what changes with that.

Again I don’t have any problems with V11 as for the new Vision system I will give my honest opinion once I have our MY delivered some time between April-May. I also find it a little bit comical when people who doesn’t like something about Tesla try to say it is dangerous lol like it is supposed to validate their dislike more.

 

[sleepydoc]

I can use V11 fine but I still find it worse in virtually every regard and it’s been pretty much universally panned by anyone with any UI experience.

As far as safety goes, most common activities take more taps and more attention than they did before. Some more than others but almost all do to some degree. Since distraction leads to accidents and the new UI takes more attention it’s a completely logical deduction that it’s less safe. Now, I don’t pretend that people are crashing left and right because of V11, that’s clearly hyperbole. V11 doesn’t need safety as an argument against it. It’s is a failure purely because it’s poorly designed.