Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car

[Fourdoor]

Ah now this is an interesting comparison. Have you compared the 3 to the Y on the same stretches of road, in roughly the same weather/lighting conditions? It's very hard to control all the variables (traffic, visibility etc), but you seem to indicate you are getting very different experiences from the two cars in the same circumstances. One issue with all the PB discussion here is trying to figure out if there is genuine variation in the cars themselves versus just different usage/roads etc.

I wonder if the issue is a 3 / Y difference or if the 3 has the latest software and he sold the Y before that latest software release? My MYP now has near perfect AP in daylight, but still has issues at night... so it may just be that his 3 has the same software that is currently being pushed to the Y's.

Keith

 

[DrGriz]

I believe that this is because you don't have the option of turning TACC on or off in the menu... if you don't have the option of turning it on or off there is no reason to warn you that it is BETA... your warning that it is BETA is in the owners manual.

Keith

I have plenty of TACC options to set speed, alarms, etc. None of those are marked Beta, but I get your point.

 

[DayTrippin]

I wonder if the issue is a 3 / Y difference or if the 3 has the latest software and he sold the Y before that latest software release? My MYP now has near perfect AP in daylight, but still has issues at night... so it may just be that his 3 has the same software that is currently being pushed to the Y's.

Keith

The Y is on the latest release and still has issues. I checked with the current owner. We are in frequent contact. It was better at night than in the daytime but the absolute worst PB I experienced happened at night. Oddly though it doesn't happen there in the daytime at all. In the opposite direction though it happens a lot (almost always) in about the exact same place.

I have to say I am split between the interface changes on the 3 and S. Definitely some things diverged. For example, you can't set the following distance using the right thumb wheel on S like you can 3/Y. You have to dig down into the menus which is a pain and you have to look away from the road to do it. Got to say I miss the energy usage option from the 3/Y too.

On the flip side, you have the option to engage the TACC/AP simultaneously with one right button push if you want since there are no stalks. Or do 2 pushes with the first just TACC and the 2nd AP. One push cancels. I wish they would port this over to the 3/Y. At first I thought why would I want more of the crap (TACC) I hated on the Y but with it working pretty well on the S, engaging TACC/AP with 1 push is very convenient.

 

[Fourdoor]

The Y is on the latest release and still has issues. I checked with the current owner. We are in frequent contact. It was better at night than in the daytime but the absolute worst PB I experienced happened at night. Oddly though it doesn't happen there in the daytime at all. In the opposite direction though it happens a lot (almost always) in about the exact same place.

I have to say I am split between the interface changes on the 3 and S. Definitely some things diverged. For example, you can't set the following distance using the right thumb wheel on S like you can 3/Y. You have to dig down into the menus which is a pain and you have to look away from the road to do it. Got to say I miss the energy usage option from the 3/Y too.

On the flip side, you have the option to engage the TACC/AP simultaneously with one right button push if you want since there are no stalks. Or do 2 pushes with the first just TACC and the 2nd AP. One push cancels. I wish they would port this over to the 3/Y. At first I thought why would I want more of the crap (TACC) I hated on the Y but with it working pretty well on the S, engaging TACC/AP with 1 push is very convenient.

Is it the "last release" down to the same final decimals? I have had 3 updates in the last month. For me, 2022.4.5 was an improvement, with 2022.4.5.3 and 2022.4.5.17 being improvements to AP / TACC over the "generic" 2022.4.5 It is to the point where the car is now as good during daylight hours as it was 9 months ago when I purchased it... still a lot of improvement needed on night time driving on 2022.4.5.3, but I have not driven at night on the 2022.4.5.17 so I don't know if that is resolved yet or not.

Keith

PS: Everyone! Any idea when they are going to remove the 80 mph limit from AP in the vision only cars? With the speedometer reading 2 mph high, I am limited to 78 mph in reality.... when the speed limit is 75 that is just too darn slow! BTW, Speedo issue is not a tire size issue, it is a consistent 2 mph off what ever speed I am driving, not a percentage off like it would be for a tire size difference.

 

[TheLex]

Is it the "last release" down to the same final decimals? I have had 3 updates in the last month. For me, 2022.4.5 was an improvement, with 2022.4.5.3 and 2022.4.5.17 being improvements to AP / TACC over the "generic" 2022.4.5 It is to the point where the car is now as good during daylight hours as it was 9 months ago when I purchased it... still a lot of improvement needed on night time driving on 2022.4.5.3, but I have not driven at night on the 2022.4.5.17 so I don't know if that is resolved yet or not.

Keith

PS: Everyone! Any idea when they are going to remove the 80 mph limit from AP in the vision only cars? With the speedometer reading 2 mph high, I am limited to 78 mph in reality.... when the speed limit is 75 that is just too darn slow! BTW, Speedo issue is not a tire size issue, it is a consistent 2 mph off what ever speed I am driving, not a percentage off like it would be for a tire size difference.

Wait - adaptive cruise turns off at 80 mph? Is this a joke? Tesla can't even get this right?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Wait - adaptive cruise turns off at 80 mph? Is this a joke? Tesla can't even get this right?

He said AP specifically.
The only remaining explicit limitation of Vision is:
"Autosteer will be limited to a maximum speed of 80 mph and a longer minimum following distance."
Transitioning to Tesla Vision

 

[CaseyL]

PS: Everyone! Any idea when they are going to remove the 80 mph limit from AP in the vision only cars? With the speedometer reading 2 mph high, I am limited to 78 mph in reality.... when the speed limit is 75 that is just too darn slow! BTW, Speedo issue is not a tire size issue, it is a consistent 2 mph off what ever speed I am driving, not a percentage off like it would be for a tire size difference.

Mine is 2 mph off as well. 78 is really 76 when checked by GPS.

 

[Fourdoor]

Wait - adaptive cruise turns off at 80 mph? Is this a joke? Tesla can't even get this right?

Nope, you can use TACC above 80, but not AP. Did I say TACC in my PS? If so, my mistake.

<edit> Nope, just checked... I said AP. </edit>

Keith

 

[MP3Mike]

The forward camera doesn't have a range of 250' it is 250 meters:

Even the main camera has more range, almost 2x as much:

 

[sleepydoc]

I think you need to start over. The forward camera doesn't have a range of 250' it is 250 meters:

View attachment 784389

Even the main camera has more range, almost 2x as much:

View attachment 784390

yeah, that does make a bit of a difference! I guess you can ignore my post!

I was actually wondering about it - 250’ seemed awfully short.

Going back to the 80 MPH limit, I’m guessing Tesla wanted to place a reasonable speed limit on it to give a bigger margin of error and ability to correct, especially while they are developing the software. It doesn’t affect me much - the fastest highway we have here is 70 MPH and I prefer not to go faster than 65 or 70 anyways because it completely trashes your milage. (ICE or EV)

Edit - mod: if you can, go ahead and delete my post. It‘s factually inaccurate and I’d rather not have it confusing people.

 

[CyberGus]

OMG...you really can change physics!

I'll go work on my anti-gravs now

 

[sleepydoc]

OMG...you really can change physics!

I'll go work on my anti-gravs now

Only if you use the metric syste!

 

[DayTrippin]

I have to give credit where is due, especially since I was very vocal about TACC's shortcomings before with my Y. I've now put close to 700 miles using TACC/AP on my 2022 M3 LR and it has been flawless without a single PB event. I keep waiting for it to happen but each day I am surprised more and more by how well it is actually working under a variety of conditions. One caveat though is about 80-85% of my driving has been during the day.

It is probably luring me into a false sense of security and then it will strike. I could never shake the feeling with my Y that TACC/AP was out to kill me but my experience currently is almost the polar opposite. The 3's choices seem pretty good or the Y lowered my standards so much that anything seems good by comparison. Even the collision warning seems well set now, soon enough I have time to react but not so early I shouldn't worry.

So kudos to Tesla for (so far) apparently fixing the thing I hated about my Y so much.

 

[WhiteWi]

I have to give credit where is due, especially since I was very vocal about TACC's shortcomings before with my Y. I've now put close to 700 miles using TACC/AP on my 2022 M3 LR and it has been flawless without a single PB event. I keep waiting for it to happen but each day I am surprised more and more by how well it is actually working under a variety of conditions. One caveat though is about 80-85% of my driving has been during the day.

It is probably luring me into a false sense of security and then it will strike. I could never shake the feeling with my Y that TACC/AP was out to kill me but my experience currently is almost the polar opposite. The 3's choices seem pretty good or the Y lowered my standards so much that anything seems good by comparison. Even the collision warning seems well set now, soon enough I have time to react but not so early I shouldn't worry.

So kudos to Tesla for (so far) apparently fixing the thing I hated about my Y so much.

Good to see you have better experience now with Teslavision in M3 vs MY you had. What I don’t get why did you go with Tesla again if you hated PB so much in MY that you sold it?

 

[DayTrippin]

I didn't sell the MY because I hated it. I loved the car. I ordered an S and my wife didn't want to keep the Y as she thought it was too big. Original plan was to have the Y to tow with and the S for trips. At least that is what it was back in May of last year when we ordered them both.

The Y came a lot sooner. I loathed TACC/AP at first as it was so poor compared to the demo cars I drove before ordering. So I took to driving the Y without using TACC and setting up dumb cruise for trips. Every time a new SW version rolled out, I'd give it another go.

We ended up moving and I didn't need to tow anything so a 3 was a viable option again and smaller like my wife wanted. I wouldn't have bought the Y if I could have towed with a 3 or S with a factory tow package though at the time 7 seats was a plus but not mandatory.

 

[DrGriz]

Just completed more long distance experience with our non-FSD 22 Model Y and thought I'd share our observations. 400 miles yesterday, 200 more today. All but 15 miles on dual lane. We used TACC most of the time, except where it didn't make sense.

We again noticed that we would have slowdowns when white vehicles (or some headlights at night, which probably looks the same to the software) were in the oncoming lane. This would not happen for dark vehicles. Not even a huge orange semi. What we also observed is that the slowings would go away if we kept the passenger tires on the fog line. Both my wife and I came up with that observation independently. If we didn't pay attention, and ended up in the middle of the lane, a white vehicle would appear and we'd slow down.

So we didn't use Auto steer at all, because it locks you into the center of your lane. A lot more slowings as a result.

It seems as though the software has trouble resolving white vehicles (and some headlights) and mistakes them as being over the centerline. Or at least too close to our course. I am hoping that with the next software (we are still on 2022.4.5.3) we will see that improve.

We did not use any AP while we were going over this pass on the reservation yesterday!

People were chaining up. Happy we still had studded Hakkas on. Drove with no issues.

 

[WhiteWi]

I didn't sell the MY because I hated it. I loved the car. I ordered an S and my wife didn't want to keep the Y as she thought it was too big. Original plan was to have the Y to tow with and the S for trips. At least that is what it was back in May of last year when we ordered them both.

The Y came a lot sooner. I loathed TACC/AP at first as it was so poor compared to the demo cars I drove before ordering. So I took to driving the Y without using TACC and setting up dumb cruise for trips. Every time a new SW version rolled out, I'd give it another go.

We ended up moving and I didn't need to tow anything so a 3 was a viable option again and smaller like my wife wanted. I wouldn't have bought the Y if I could have towed with a 3 or S with a factory tow package though at the time 7 seats was a plus but not mandatory.

Thank you for explanation!

 

[Fourdoor]

OMG...you really can change physics!

I'll go work on my anti-gravs now

Will you IPO soon? I have $$$

Keith

 

[DrGriz]

Cross-posting a little here, but I think there's something to be said about the latest (to me) software. I was just upgraded to 2022.4.5.17.

Took a 20 mile ride. First half on dual lane, no lane markings. Put it in TACC, First vehicle I encountered was a large white truck pulling a large white trailer. It was on the inside of a fairly curve taking it's half out of the middle and I got a hard brake. Appropriately. After that, no episodes at all despite the lack of lane markings. Plenty of white vehicles including large white trucks. Then went onto the marked highway (65-55 mph) and turned on both TACC and Autosteer. No events whatsoever.

Haven't tried driving in the dark yet, but this is way different from the 800 miles plus I drove this past weekend where I couldn't even turn Autosteer on.

Time will tell just how good it actually is. It seems significantly improved however!

 

[Fourdoor]

Just did my first night time driving on rural non-divided state highway on software 2022.4.5.17 and it was just as good as the software the car came with 9 months ago when I purchased the car! There are still minor hesitations once in a while (day or night) but once a day or less rather than dozens of times each day!!!

I no longer use the "speed limit mode" work around on my daily commute. I may still use it on long trips if I know ahead of time that a large portion of a segment of the trip will be on rural highways where AP limits you to 5 mph over the limit (actually 3 mph due to the speedometer error) so I can use auto steering and drive 10 over the limit... or I may just relax and let everyone pass me... don't know yet

Keith

PS: Anyone know how to update the speed limit zones on the source maps that Tesla uses? It thinks one of the rural highways I drive has a 25 mph speed limit rather than the real limit of 55 mph... and it still has a temporary construction zone 45 mph limit in one section of my daily commute where the construction was finished over 2 years ago.