Possibility of a 500 mile range Plaid Model S?

[ReddyLeaf]

Oh definitely, for me I’m not looking to drive all of it non stop, it’s more the freedom of being able to skip a supercharger if it’s got a line of cars waiting.

And in CA, that would be,what, an average of 50 miles?

 

[darxsys]

Rated is realistic. I rarely don't hit it or do better at any time of the year except winter.

If you only get 370 on 500 rated I'd get your car checked or drive at safer highway speeds. I drive 75mph and have no issues getting 245 miles in my 75D.

Rated is not realistic. If temperature goes below 10 degrees Celsius, there is almost no chance to hit rated range. Or if there is any kind of a hill. Or if you drive like every other car on the highway and use AC etc.

 

[JamesTm]

Most probably when the next gen maxwell cells with higher energy density per volume will enter in mass production.

 

[Saghost]

Rated is not realistic, I have no idea what you’re talking about. If temperature goes below 10 degrees Celsius, there is almost no chance to hit rated range. Or if there is any kind of a hill. Or if you drive like every other car on the highway and use AC etc.

It seems to vary by model. My X75D could achieve rated on good days, if I was careful.

My Ludicrous Raven beats rated by a bunch under any normal circumstance in decent weather; we’ll have to see what the winter does to it.

 

[pgkevet]

If Tesla can actually cram a 600 mile battery into the roadster they promise to start building next year - as opposed to hoping to figure out how sometime when they can make such batteres - then logically the same basic format should be designed to tuck into the S. Potentially that would give the option of range towards 500+miles allowing for the extra weight etc of S.
There's a lot of 'buts' here and the usual Elon optimism and delays and ability to manufacture in volume

 

[Zishan]

What size the the Roadster supposed to have?


EDIT: Nevermind, I googled it, 200 kWh!!! Wow, would love the Model S/X to get that pack as well, once cost of production comes down and it becomes less cost prohibitive.

 

[f205v]

yes, it was said at time of Roadster 2.0 presentation that it was using 2 packs from Model S 100D packed one on top of the other.

 

[Saghost]

You are correct, I confused myself. my apologies.

What I meant, single motor, then dual motor: efficiency improved. Then Raven, new motor, efficiency improved. Now we are looking at Plaid, I'm not sure of efficiency, but beyond that, what would further advancements and/or moving to a 4 motor drive system result in.....hopefully even more range.

Tesla has continued to increase battery size every few years....so I'm hoping we will continue to see range increases....and all things considered, I think we will.

Electric motor efficiency curves are fairly flat, but they do have them. For most motors, the best efficiency is at around half torque and half speed, a large plateau that extends to within maybe 20% of the various edges.

Prior to the Model 3, Tesla was using induction motors for everything, unlike the permanent magnet motors used by most competitors. Two important differences for this discussion: Induction motors don't have the stator field timing phased to the rotor rotation, and induction motors don't have any magnetic fields when the windings aren't energized.

That combination means you can turn the stators off, and the induction motor will just keep spinning with no loads except the bearing - and you can turn it right back on at speed in a fraction of a second with no issues. Tesla developed the programming to do this, which they call Torque Sleep, shortly after the P85D first came out.

For the Model 3, Tesla developed something new - the Permanent Magnet Switched Reluctance motor, and I'm not sure anyone outside Tesla understands how it works. I found this very interesting set of speculations:

Switched Reluctance motors, an old design is suddenly important now

But the teardown videos seem to say the magnets are on the rotor, which doesn't fit. PMSR motors are more compact, more efficient, and likely cheaper to produce than induction motors - but like other types of permanent magnet motors, you can't put them to sleep.

So the single motor to dual motor got more efficient because of Torque Sleep - the remaining motor that's running is half the size of the RWD motor, and so it's operating in a better part of the curve (and it's a second generation Tesla design, incorporating improvements based on years of data with the bigger motors.)

Raven got more efficient because the one motor that is left on is inherently more efficient than the previous version, and they added things like ceramic wheel bearings to reduce loads.

Now look at Plaid. Two PMSR motors in the rear you'll have to keep running - which means they'll both run further off of peak efficiency than on the Raven. Fatter tires made of sticker, higher rolling resistance rubber. More air going through bigger cooling ducts to bigger radiators, meaning more drag. It's not clear if the front motor on Plaid will go back to induction so you can put it to sleep, or be a third PMSR type for peak track performance even though it'll mean keeping all three running on the freeway.

I have no doubt that Tesla will continue to improve efficiency where they can, consistent with the goals of a given car. But it seems to me like the Ravens took all the easy efficiency improvements off the table, at least until Tesla invents a more efficient fourth generation motor or a lower internal resistance battery. Maybe something creative with thermal energy management for the cabin/pack/drivetrain.

I am pretty sure the track focussed Plaid cars will get fewer miles per kWh, and going to four motors won't improve anything there - the main thing you gain there is more regenerative braking power and the ability to push the regeneration limit harder (also a little more torque vectoring power than the three motor cars have and a little more ability to move in extreme conditions.)

 

[roblab]

I assume to achieve Plaid performance, tesla would need to make a larger capacity battery, any chance tesla would reach for the stars and break the 500 mile barrier?

The reason we don't have 500 mile batteries is because hardly anyone needs them, and most people would complain of the increased cost. I live a hundred miles from my closest Service Center, and there are MANY superchargers along the route.

Of course, there are places, such as the wilds of Idaho, where a larger battery might be handy, but even then it's easily handled by my 400 mile battery and a good half dozen superchargers or more, if you're content to jump over to eastern Washington a few miles.

My brother lives in the next state over from me, only a couple hundred miles away, so I hardly need my 400 mile battery, plus there are numerous superchargers along the way. I would not pay for a 500 mile battery.

 

[AMPd]

The reason we don't have 500 mile batteries is because hardly anyone needs them, and most people would complain of the increased cost. I live a hundred miles from my closest Service Center, and there are MANY superchargers along the route.

Of course, there are places, such as the wilds of Idaho, where a larger battery might be handy, but even then it's easily handled by my 400 mile battery and a good half dozen superchargers or more, if you're content to jump over to eastern Washington a few miles.

My brother lives in the next state over from me, only a couple hundred miles away, so I hardly need my 400 mile battery, plus there are numerous superchargers along the way. I would not pay for a 500 mile battery.

I am surrounded by superchargers, living in California I’m sure you’re aware of how saturated this place is. But I’d still pay for a 500 mile battery, mainly because it would allow me to drive longer without having to stop and charge as often and when I would have to stop the charging would be quicker as I wouldn’t have to charge the top end

 

[MNPlaid]

The reason we don't have 500 mile batteries is because hardly anyone needs them, and most people would complain of the increased cost. I live a hundred miles from my closest Service Center, and there are MANY superchargers along the route.

Of course, there are places, such as the wilds of Idaho, where a larger battery might be handy, but even then it's easily handled by my 400 mile battery and a good half dozen superchargers or more, if you're content to jump over to eastern Washington a few miles.

My brother lives in the next state over from me, only a couple hundred miles away, so I hardly need my 400 mile battery, plus there are numerous superchargers along the way. I would not pay for a 500 mile battery.

winter Saps batteries fast as well as towing

Driving to my Northwoods cabin no supercharges and its 145 miles each way in winter its not doable really