Power Conversion System (PCS) failure

[Yanquetino]

So bottom line, i'm out of warranty - if this is my problem, and I have to pay for it - how much is the damage??

Back in February, Service quoted me $1,738.18, but another user was just quoted $2,321.51.

I'm still waiting for AAA to schedule the arbitration to settle my dispute with Tesla over the issue. It is ridiculous that it has taken this long. Someone is dragging their feet. I dunno if an arbitrator will agree with me that any and all components like the PCS in the HV Battery Service Panel should be covered under the HV Battery Warranty, but I think I've made some very reasonable arguments in the link above.

 

[N54TT]

Back in February, Service quoted me $1,738.18, but another user was just quoted $2,321.51.

I'm still waiting for AAA to schedule the arbitration to settle my dispute with Tesla over the issue. It is ridiculous that it has taken this long. Someone is dragging their feet. I dunno if an arbitrator will agree with me that any and all components like the PCS in the HV Battery Service Panel should be covered under the HV Battery Warranty, but I think I've made some very reasonable arguments in the link above.

Read that post you linked. I wonder what the “various other components” that user had replaced. Could be why his estimate is higher. I just had my pcs replaced. It was $1100 for the part and $500 for the labor…which is was good willed. Add in tax..much closer to the 1700 you were quoted.

 

[Yanquetino]

Read that post you linked. I wonder what the “various other components” that user had replaced. Could be why his estimate is higher. I just had my pcs replaced. It was $1100 for the part and $500 for the labor…which is was good willed. Add in tax..much closer to the 1700 you were quoted.

Maybe that's why…? Still, I maintain that a failed PCS shouldn't cost owners anything until the HV Battery Warranty expires. I can report that, as of late yesterday afternoon, an arbitrator has been assigned to my case. Hopefully the meeting will take place soon. Then we'll see.

 

[holmie]

I just started noticing this issue on my car as well. It was charging at 32amp using the mobile connector but now its charging at 16amp

 

[Yanquetino]

I just started noticing this issue on my car as well. It was charging at 32amp using the mobile connector but now its charging at 16amp

Drat…! I wish I could say that yours is an isolated instance, but it obviously is not. The number of PSC failures just keeps growing. It now seems obvious that Tesla was fully aware of this problem ever since issuing the Technical Service Bulletin in 2018, but decided to just keep building the cars with the faulty hardware and then claim that it's not covered by the HV Battery Limited Warranty as they started breaking down after 4 years of ownership. I can report that the arbitration to settle my dispute over the issue now has a designated arbitrator, but they're still waiting for Tesla to pay the fees and have given them until August 29 to do so. Shall I keep my fingers crossed…?

 

[MP3Mike]

I can report that the arbitration to settle my dispute over the issue now has a designated arbitrator, but they're still waiting for Tesla to pay the fees and have given them until August 29 to do so. Shall I keep my fingers crossed…?

Have they said what happens on the 29th if Tesla hasn't paid the fee? I wonder if they are dragging their feet because they know they are going to lose? But would that gain them?

 

[BigNick]

Have they said what happens on the 29th if Tesla hasn't paid the fee? I wonder if they are dragging their feet because they know they are going to lose? But would that gain them?

If they know they'll have to pay out, let's say, $500M, delaying a decision by two weeks would gain them two weeks' worth of interest on $500M. Even at a measly 1% APY, that's nearly $200K. While that might be chump change for Musk, it's not zero.

 

[Yanquetino]

Have they said what happens on the 29th if Tesla hasn't paid the fee? I wonder if they are dragging their feet because they know they are going to lose? But would that gain them?

AAA has told Tesla: "Please be reminded that the business' failure to pay this fee and deposit may result in the arbitrator suspending the proceedings."

So… what does that mean? Dunno. But it strikes me as another way Tesla could drag their feet and avoid settling the dispute.

 

[MP3Mike]

If they know they'll have to pay out, let's say, $500M, delaying a decision by two weeks would gain them two weeks' worth of interest on $500M. Even at a measly 1% APY, that's nearly $200K. While that might be chump change for Musk, it's not zero.

Arbitration is on a case by case basis, and I'm not even sure that you can present the results of a similar arbitration case as evidence in your case.

The most Tesla will have to pay, in addition to the ~$2k arbitration fee, is the ~$2,500 to fix @Yanquetino's PCS. (And we know it probably doesn't cost them $2,500 to fix it.) Now of course if this case is successful there are probably a number of people that will file a case as well.

Personally I think every person that has had the PCS fail should file a case right now. Put the pressure on Tesla to make this right. (It costs nothing but some time/energy.)

 

[MP3Mike]

So… what does that mean? Dunno. But it strikes me as another way Tesla could drag their feet and avoid settling the dispute.

I would think that would make a small claims case a slam dunk. "I tried to follow the procedure that Tesla set out, but they wouldn't follow through on their obligation."

 

[holmie]

I just made a Service Appointment for later this week. Lets see what they say. I'll keep you guys posted.

@Yanquetino this definitely seems like a broad issue that is happening to many cars. Do there EV manufacturers cover the PCS under their battery warranty?

On a side note, I have a Model 3 (long range / dual motor) and I charge it to 80% and get 245 miles range. Is this normal?

 

[Yanquetino]

I just made a Service Appointment for later this week. Lets see what they say. I'll keep you guys posted.

@Yanquetino this definitely seems like a broad issue that is happening to many cars. Do there EV manufacturers cover the PCS under their battery warranty?

On a side note, I have a Model 3 (long range / dual motor) and I charge it to 80% and get 245 miles range. Is this normal?

I don't know for certain about other EVs, as I haven't inquired about it with such owners. I can say that the PCS was never a problem for the 6 years I drove my previous LEAF. I have noted that Hyundai covers their "batteries and system components for […] all-electric vehicles with a 10- year/100,000-mile warranty." Do those "system components" include the Power Conversion System for Level 1 and 2 charging? I would like to think so, but… I guess only Hyundai could give a definitive answer.

As for range, your LR AWD is doing better than mine. When the PCS started to fail, My LR RWD was only getting 234 miles from an 80% charge, and for the last couple of months… only 230 with nearly 60K on the odometer. Still, that's about 93% of its original capacity.

 

[Kims]

My Tesla recently broke down (fortunately close to home) it had a complete electrical system failure - Tesla diagnosed ….
Found shut down reason was due to the PCS going MIA. Carried out replacement of the power conversion system, Carried out vacuum refill and coolant air purges and updated firmware.

Has anyone experienced this and was the repair effective.
Don’t want to experience this again!!!

 

[jjrandorin]

Has anyone experienced this

People in the thread I merged your thread with have experienced this.

 

[holmie]

I don't know for certain about other EVs, as I haven't inquired about it with such owners. I can say that the PCS was never a problem for the 6 years I drove my previous LEAF. I have noted that Hyundai covers their "batteries and system components for […] all-electric vehicles with a 10- year/100,000-mile warranty." Do those "system components" include the Power Conversion System for Level 1 and 2 charging? I would like to think so, but… I guess only Hyundai could give a definitive answer.

As for range, your LR AWD is doing better than mine. When the PCS started to fail, My LR RWD was only getting 234 miles from an 80% charge, and for the last couple of months… only 230 with nearly 60K on the odometer. Still, that's about 93% of its original capacity.

I'm inclined to contact other EV manufactures to inquire about their warranty policy regarding battery components such as PCS. If it is a common industry practice to cover these parts of the car then it makes no sense for Tesla to exploit the terminology of their warranty to exclude this part from warranty.

I'm almost at 51k miles at the moment. Does PCS actually make a difference on the range?

And what is the AAA trying to get for you?

 

[MP3Mike]

If it is a common industry practice to cover these parts of the car then it makes no sense for Tesla to exploit the terminology of their warranty to exclude this part from warranty.

There is nothing in the warranty terminology to exclude the PCS as far as I can read. (It is inside the battery, and comes with a new battery, so it should be covered by the battery warranty.)

And what is the AAA trying to get for you?

AAA is the arbitration company that Tesla uses. So they will review the submissions from both sides and determine if the warranty should cover it or not. (Not related to the AAA road side service company.)

 

[holmie]

There is nothing in the warranty terminology to exclude the PCS as far as I can read. (It is inside the battery, and comes with a new battery, so it should be covered by the battery warranty.)



AAA is the arbitration company that Tesla uses. So they will review the submissions from both sides and determine if the warranty should cover it or not. (Not related to the AAA road side service company.)

Thanks Mike. In that case, would it help if we all raised this issue together against Tesla instead of doing it on our own?

 

[MP3Mike]

Thanks Mike. In that case, would it help if we all raised this issue together against Tesla instead of doing it on our own?

The arbitration is an individual thing, you can't do a class action arbitration case. But the more arbitration cases Tesla sees for an issue the faster they are likely to deal with it. (I think that was part of what got them to correct their stance on the yellowing border on the MCU screens in the Model S/X.)

So if you have the PCS issue, follow the instructions from your purchase paperwork and start the arbitration process.

 

[Thunder7ga]

Hmm.....after 4 years of using the mobile charger in my June 2018 build Model 3, I installed an HPWC this weekend. Went to test it out and the message about "Charging slowed..." message. Had me wondering if I messed up the install. I checked everything and it seems good. So started to search about the problem, and found all you guys. Ugh. I have always gotten the full 32a out of the mobile charger, so had no issues. Now with the HPWC, I could do up to 40a, but the car just shows it still using only 32/40 and the "charging slowed..." message. I am guessing I am having this issue as well, and didn't even know it.

 

[davewill]

Hmm.....after 4 years of using the mobile charger in my June 2018 build Model 3, I installed an HPWC this weekend. Went to test it out and the message about "Charging slowed..." message. Had me wondering if I messed up the install. I checked everything and it seems good. So started to search about the problem, and found all you guys. Ugh. I have always gotten the full 32a out of the mobile charger, so had no issues. Now with the HPWC, I could do up to 40a, but the car just shows it still using only 32/40 and the "charging slowed..." message. I am guessing I am having this issue as well, and didn't even know it.

...and you're now out of warranty, and can't prove the problem existed while inside the warranty. Folks, you really owe it to yourselves to test the highest charge rate your car supports while still in warranty.