Power Conversion System (PCS) failure

[MP3Mike]

Okay, the PCS was officially replaced out of warranty and I am out $1600. I have filed a complaint with NHTSA.

I don't think NHTSA will do anything as it isn't really a safety issue. But you should file an arbitration claim, which costs you nothing, but would cost Tesla more than the cost of the repair. I'm still interested to hear their pretzel logic on how something inside the battery isn't covered by the battery warranty.

 

[Yanquetino]

Owners following this thread: please add your input to the poll I posted this morning. Thank you!

 

[DeltaOne]

By the way, as I point out in that link, I deem it suspicious, if not devious, that Tesla has now changed the size and font of the data readout in the charging display shown above so that it is practically illegible from outside the vehicle.

The firmware my car is on now, 2022.12.3.2, has made the size and font much the way it was before...easily readable from outside the car. It was the previous version that was smaller and almost impossible to read.

 

[Yanquetino]

The firmware my car is on now, 2022.12.3.2, has made the size and font much the way it was before...easily readable from outside the car. It was the previous version that was smaller and almost impossible to read.

Good to know! Bet'cha they've received complaints about it. Unfortunately, I'm still on 2022.4.5.21 (FSD Beta 10.11.2) and still see the tiny sized readout. Another gripe I have on this issue is that, if you were in the car in the past (on the left), the charging screen showed a larger graphic of your car with the data underneath it. Now that display shows the control panels, with a smaller car, and NO data whatsoever (on the right). Why should one only be able to see those data from outside the car?

 

[N54TT]

I just came across this thread after having to have my PCS replaced today. But I never experienced any issues charging….probably because I was only charging at 32a? My issue was one day my car wouldn’t drive/go into gear, screen would turn on but just kept getting electrical system errors, and eventually a 12v replacement warning. Changing the 12V didn’t do anything. I Ended up having to get it towed( couldn’t even put it in tow mode). Was originally told it was the High Voltage controller draining the 12V. apparently the HVC wasn’t available nationwide. Car sat at the service center, poor communication, wrong part ordered, delayed and missed ETA’s. After 2 weeks I had to escalate to the service manager. Finally got it changed today when I got the call that my PCS needed to be replaced as well. it was $1100 for the part and $500 labor. They ended up good willing a portion of the bill but am still paying $1200(including taxes). I guess if there’s ever a class action lawsuit I’ll make sure to save my receipts/records.

 

[N54TT]

Couldn’t edit…..I should have added that I’m @51.3k miles, so just past the warranty.

 

[nogasbiker]

Couldn’t edit…..I should have added that I’m @51.3k miles, so just past the warranty.

I was 8 days past warranty, and only 18k miles. A very young and pampered Model3, I kid you not. They also goodwilled only part of it, I am out $1200 as well.

 

[IcyMango241]

I was 8 days past warranty, and only 18k miles. A very young and pampered Model3, I kid you not. They also goodwilled only part of it, I am out $1200 as well.

Couldn’t edit…..I should have added that I’m @51.3k miles, so just past the warranty.

What is the build year/month of your affected Model 3s, if you don't mind sharing? Curious if these failures are happening within a certain date range. I'm wondering if there could be a defective batch of these that are now starting to fail.

 

[MP3Mike]

Nope. Sorry. The online form does NOT allow me to submit my request for mediation UNLESS I pay them the $200 fee up front. I tried leaving the fee box blank, and it only generated a "red flag" rejection. I suppose that, after the case is settled, they will reimburse me and charge Tesla according to our "Agreement to Arbitrate." I have now submitted everything with the fee, and can only wait for AAA to arrange the mediation.

@Yanquetino so it has been just about a month since you filed for arbitration, have you heard anything from AAA or Tesla yet?

 

[N54TT]

What is the build year/month of your affected Model 3s, if you don't mind sharing? Curious if these failures are happening within a certain date range. I'm wondering if there could be a defective batch of these that are now starting to fail.

August 2018

 

[Iamscoobydoo]

I'm having this issue and also took delivery August 2018.
Have a service appointment 5/21

 

[rrolsbe]

I'm having this issue and also took delivery August 2018.
Have a service appointment 5/21

I am sure you mean 6/21? My June build/July 2018 delivered M3 had the PCS replaced last August. Found out after the PCS was replaced there was a TSB for the June built Model 3 cars. Tesla never mentioned the TSB. I think my replacement PCS is the third rev of the board. I can't help believe there is a problem with the early boards, hopefully the issues will not reoccur on the newer boards.

 

[N54TT]

I'm having this issue and also took delivery August 2018.
Have a service appointment 5/21

Which issue are you having? Unable to charge? I think mine was completely shot and unable to power the cars entire 12v system…unable to even drive.

 

[Yanquetino]

@Yanquetino so it has been just about a month since you filed for arbitration, have you heard anything from AAA or Tesla yet?

Yes, AAA contacted me to initiate the process. They said that Tesla has until June 8 (yesterday) to respond. I assume they will be contacting me again very soon with an update, and we'll see how and when the mediation will proceed.

 

[Sealander]

Update - Finally got the car back with a new PCS after about 2.5 weeks in the SC. It's a 2.5 hour job (per billed rate).

At the end, I ended up not paying for it (would have been ~$2k), although it took many calls + escalations. It was officially covered as "goodwill" and not "HV Battery Warranty" although that is what I was pushing for. I ended up having to reach out to many senior service levels including up to the regional service manager + higher to get someone with decision making ability to review my case.

A couple things helped, that I'd recommend those who are stuck with this issue aim for:
1) Read around on the threads, but a friend helped me find a couple examples of this specific issue being covered by the "HV Battery Warranty" on their invoice. This was a huge helped as I had to point them to it.
2) Ask for the to be replaced PCS part back. If you end up paying for the service, this is your right and I believe it did have an impact on their desire to cover the charge. My sense is if there really is a design flaw this could help you in the future and they likely don't want these defective parts flying around for legal liability. If you end up paying for it, filing a complaint with NHTSA may help if they get many of the same issues. I'd even recommend referring to the bulletin below.
3) Check if your M3 falls into this Service bulletin for this same exact issue: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10148850-9999.pdf

Finally, at the end the regional service manager really did want to help out. I made 2 requests that he follow-up with Tesla corporate with, that he said he already initiated and will keep me apprised of any change. Both of which I really thought were important for fellow Tesla owners who come across the same problem:
1) Have the service bulletin team re-look at the above SB. My sense is this is a flaw that extends beyond that VIN range, as my car (and at least 1 other friend) had the same issue with cars that were 4-5 months earlier than that window.
2) Have their legal/compliance team update the warranty agreement to specifically define the "Battery". This is EXTREMELY vague and makes it impossible for the service centers.

Good luck!

Thanks for including a link to the service bulletin. I have had the problem with reduced charging from Tesla wall chargers for several years. All I get now is 32 amps max. If I raise it any higher I get an error message that there is a power grid or vehicle issue limiting AC charging. My car is out of warranty now, but was built in June 2018 according the the date on the sticker on the inside drivers door jam so I will contact Tesla service now to see if they will honor the service bulletin at no charge.

 

[Yanquetino]

I'm still waiting for the arbitration meeting. AAA has processed my complaint and gave Tesla until June 8 to respond. They have not, and thus AAA will go ahead in arranging for a meeting with one of their mediators here in my area. Let's hope it's soon. Other than that, all I can tell you is that Eimi Watanabe is the primary contact from Tesla, with additional representation from Kendra Williams and Maria Elena Espinoza.

 

[SouthwestMAX7]

Mine was produced in December of 2018 and this has me worried

Does anyone have information on the TSB and if it affected any other 2018's?

 

[Yanquetino]

Mine was produced in December of 2018 and this has me worried

Does anyone have information on the TSB and if it affected any other 2018's?

I wish I did… but not that I've seen. I suspect that there have been, indeed, many more vehicles inflicted with this breakdown, both before and after that TSB, but that's about the time Tesla decreed not to cover them under the HV Battery Warranty, anticipating that the recall costs would be significant over time. It wouldn't surprise me if most owners who had crossed 50K miles after that and experienced the breakdown just kinda grumbled and paid for the repair out-of-pocket. Which likely was Tesla's intent…?

 

[ucladukes]

There are a few threads going here and on other forums for charging issues that turn out to be PCS failures. Most owners notice the failure when they are AC charging (Wall Charger or Mobile Connector). The charge rate will drop from 48A to 32A or 32A to 16A and give an error message saying "Charge rate reduced, Unplug and Retry".

Up to now all the PCS failures I've heard about on various forums have had the PCS replaced on warranty but today I was given an estimate of over $2,000 CDN to have mine replaced. The PCS is not covered under the battery warranty, just the basic 50,000 mile / 80,000km warranty. The PCS sits on top of the battery and controls AC and DC charging as well as supplying 12 VDC. It really should be part of the battery warranty.

The PCS has three 16A controllers, one operating gives you 16A, two operating gives you 32A and all three operating gives you your full 48A. If you are using a Wall Charger set up for 48A and one controller fails your rate is reduced to 32A and you get the reduced charge failure message. In my case I only have the Mobile Charger so when one controller fails I can still charge at 32A using the remaining two controllers, but I don't get a failure message until I have lost two out of the three controllers. By the time I lost two controllers I was outside the basic warranty.

I subscribe to TeslaFi and went back through my charge records and found abnormal charging started at 69,000 km and didn't show normal charging until 76,000km. Every AC charge during that interval showed the charge attempting to charge at 32A then failing to 16A, going back to 32A for a while then dropping back to 16A. It seems that one of the controllers eventually failed completely at 76,000km and then just used the remaining controllers to get to the Mobile Chargers max of 32A. And no error message for me to report.

If I had used a Wall Charger set to 48A just one time prior to my warranty expire I would have received the error message and had the PCS replaced under warranty as so many others have done.

I presented the TeslaFi data to Tesla clearly showing an abnormality and well within the warranty period but they refused to acknowledge it or even view it, they declared it non Tesla data. I asked them to retrieve their own data on the car and they said that they don't go back that far.

Does anyone have any experience or suggestions on appealing warranty claims? The service manager at the Vaughn Service Center (Toronto) had zero interest in discussing the complaint or assisting me in an appeal.

Help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

So bottom line, i'm out of warranty - if this is my problem, and I have to pay for it - how much is the damage??

 

[MP3Mike]

So bottom line, i'm out of warranty - if this is my problem, and I have to pay for it - how much is the damage??

It looks like somewhere around $2,000. But even if you pay for the repair because you need your car working, you should file an arbitration case to try to get your money back. It won't cost you anything but some time. The PCS is included in the HV battery and should be covered by the HV battery warranty as it is currently written. (I'm not a lawyer, and that is just my opinion.)