Powerwall Capacity.

[d21mike]

I could not find this information on the Tesla Order Site. If I ordered a Powerwall today would I get the Powerwall 2? And if so what is the capacity? I read some time back that it went from 7.2kw to 14.4kw and the cost did not increase by double. Also, the inverter is part of the Powewall.

And, what is the current lead time. It does not show. Maybe I have to pay $99 to get all of this information.

 

[miimura]

You can find the datasheet here:

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default.../Powerwall 2_AC_Datasheet_en_northamerica.pdf

It has a 5kW continuous inverter built-in that can surge to 7kW for 10 seconds. It has 13.5kWh usable capacity when new.

You would have to ask Tesla what their lead time is in your area. Powerwall supply is much better than it has been in the past though.

 

[Shygar]

You can find the datasheet here:

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/Powerwall 2_AC_Datasheet_en_northamerica.pdf

It has a 5kW continuous inverter built-in that can surge to 7kW for 10 seconds. It has 13.5kWh usable capacity when new.

You would have to ask Tesla what their lead time is in your area. Powerwall supply is much better than it has been in the past though.

I think the usable capacity is higher when in storm watch mode, but I don't think they have documented that anywhere specifically.

 

[miimura]

I think the usable capacity is higher when in storm watch mode, but I don't think they have documented that anywhere specifically.

I was just repeating the figure from the datasheet. I think you're right though. There is evidence that there is a buffer at the top of the battery that Storm Watch is letting the system use.

 

[d21mike]

I am just beginning my research, but hope to get solar this year for the 30% credit. Not going to be able to do that if there is a 6+ month wait. I had SolarMax come out and give a quote and they use LG Batteries. Are they good? I was told I can only connect 4x 20amp circuits to the battery. Like my Kitchen (fridge), Laundry Room with routers, my TV room and maybe master bedroom / bath. Whereas the Tesla Battery says "whole home" backup. So, only 1 battery needed in that setup which I might be ok with since it is just during the power outage. Not sure I need AC and to Charge my Tesla's during a power outage. Also, looks like because of this I would only charge my Tesla's during the day on solar? Not sure I would generate enough credits for night time off peak rates.

 

[miimura]

I am just beginning my research, but hope to get solar this year for the 30% credit. Not going to be able to do that if there is a 6+ month wait. I had SolarMax come out and give a quote and they use LG Batteries. Are they good? I was told I can only connect 4x 20amp circuits to the battery. Like my Kitchen (fridge), Laundry Room with routers, my TV room and maybe master bedroom / bath. Whereas the Tesla Battery says "whole home" backup. So, only 1 battery needed in that setup which I might be ok with since it is just during the power outage. Not sure I need AC and to Charge my Tesla's during a power outage. Also, looks like because of this I would only charge my Tesla's during the day on solar? Not sure I would generate enough credits for night time off peak rates.

A single Powerwall can probably back up all your household outlets, including your fridge, dishwasher, etc. and all your lighting circuits unless you have a large house, say over 3,000sf. Even my two Powerwall system does not back up my A/C and car charging circuits. One general rule of thumb for Tesla installations is that any breaker greater than 30A per Powerwall cannot be backed up.

LG Batteries do not include an inverter, they depend on the inverter they are connected to. Tesla Powerwalls include a 5kW inverter, which is one of the compelling aspects of it.

 

[DrSmile]

I would not believe anyone that says they can guarantee a running system by January 1st. Everyone I know that has solar here, including me, complains about how long the permitting and approvals take. I would say 6 months is the minimum install time. In terms of battery systems, I priced and spec'd out other systems besides Powerwalls, and bottom line, they are far inferior when it comes to price/performance. A Sonnen 16KW system for example is more expensive than a 40KW Powerwall (x3) setup, and it won't do full house backup like the Powerwall. It is LiFePo though, so likely to last longer, but really you'd be an idiot to choose it over the Powerwalls. It was a good option until the Powerwalls actually started being installed, which was this year really, so way behind schedule for anyone who ordered them.

 

[d21mike]

A single Powerwall can probably back up all your household outlets, including your fridge, dishwasher, etc. and all your lighting circuits unless you have a large house, say over 3,000sf. Even my two Powerwall system does not back up my A/C and car charging circuits. One general rule of thumb for Tesla installations is that any breaker greater than 30A per Powerwall cannot be backed up.

LG Batteries do not include an inverter, they depend on the inverter they are connected to. Tesla Powerwalls include a 5kW inverter, which is one of the compelling aspects of it.

Thanks. To be clear there is no limit on the number of 15A or 20A circuits that can pull from a Powerball like in the case of the LG System? I just checked on my 200w power panel I have 10 of the 15A or 20A. Then I current have 1 50A for charging my MS Car (planning to install another 50A or smaller for the M3 just purchased). I have 40A for the AC and 1 40A for the OVEN (hardly used). The AC is used mainly during Aug, Sept, Oct and only have AC on the upstairs unit. My house is 3,100sf. Just my wife and I now. We current spend about $2400 per year with SCE. I think about 1000kw per month usage. My wife and I do not commute for work (I work from home) so not a lot of miles but I was a little surprised about how much usage from 10pm-8am (super off peak) I am using.

 

[miimura]

Thanks. To be clear there is no limit on the number of 15A or 20A circuits that can pull from a Powerball like in the case of the LG System? I just checked on my 200w power panel I have 10 of the 15A or 20A. Then I current have 1 50A for charging my MS Car (planning to install another 50A or smaller for the M3 just purchased). I have 40A for the AC and 1 40A for the OVEN (hardly used). The AC is used mainly during Aug, Sept, Oct and only have AC on the upstairs unit. My house is 3,100sf. Just my wife and I now. We current spend about $2400 per year with SCE. I think about 1000kw per month usage. My wife and I do not commute for work (I work from home) so not a lot of miles but I was a little surprised about how much usage from 10pm-8am (super off peak) I am using.

Of course there is some limit to the number of 120V circuits you can back up. On a single Powerwall system you would have a reasonable chance to run into that limit. With two Powerwalls, you likely would not. I am just not familiar with the actual calculation for what that limit is.

I have a 2750sf house built in 2012 with two Powerwalls. All 120V circuits except the tile floor heaters are backed up. I can't think of any 240V circuits that are backed up. I had the house pre-wired for all electric appliances even though the range and clothes dryer are gas. So, I have several 240V breakers in my main panel that are not used.

 

[DrSmile]

All new Powerwall installations (if more than one Powerwall) just back up your whole panel, there is no subpanel. A/C units pull a lot of power on startup, so Tesla will likely install softstarts for the units. Even my 48 Amp Tesla wall charger is backed up through the two Powerwalls I have, but it would be a really bad idea to use it without limiting the charging rate in the car.

There was a review from someone a while back that criticized the Powerwall as not being effective. Turns out he had electric everything and was using over 200KWh a day. If your electricity use is that high you're going to need a lot of Powerwalls to make it useful.

Edit- here is the review RIKLReview - Tesla Powerwall 2

 

[Shygar]

My dad ran into this problem last year. He had a contract signed saying that solar would be completed before Jan 1st and they just weren't able to do it. They didn't anticipate the flood of people that they got at the end of the year. At least for this year it's only a 4% drop (30% to 26%).

 

[Dan123]

Thanks. To be clear there is no limit on the number of 15A or 20A circuits that can pull from a Powerball like in the case of the LG System? I just checked on my 200w power panel I have 10 of the 15A or 20A. Then I current have 1 50A for charging my MS Car (planning to install another 50A or smaller for the M3 just purchased). I have 40A for the AC and 1 40A for the OVEN (hardly used). The AC is used mainly during Aug, Sept, Oct and only have AC on the upstairs unit. My house is 3,100sf. Just my wife and I now. We current spend about $2400 per year with SCE. I think about 1000kw per month usage. My wife and I do not commute for work (I work from home) so not a lot of miles but I was a little surprised about how much usage from 10pm-8am (super off peak) I am using.

Since you have 40amp and 50amp circuits, you will need 2 Powerwalls to power those in off-grid mode. If you install one Powerwall, I think it will work most of the time, but it will frequently get overloaded and shut down.

 

[miimura]

Since you have 40amp and 50amp circuits, you will need 2 Powerwalls to power those in off-grid mode. If you install one Powerwall, I think it will work most of the time, but it will frequently get overloaded and shut down.

As I said before, Tesla will not install the Powerwall system with 40A or 50A breakers on the backup side of the Gateway if you only have a single Powerwall. That prevents the overload.

 

[Shygar]

Since you have 40amp and 50amp circuits, you will need 2 Powerwalls to power those in off-grid mode. If you install one Powerwall, I think it will work most of the time, but it will frequently get overloaded and shut down.

Why would it overload and shut down? As @miimura said, they won't even install that to be backed up because the powerwall can't handle it.

I have a single powerwall 2 and I have my entire house in one subpanel except for my 30amp AC breaker and my 60 amp Tesla wall connector. I have CT clips on those breakers so the powerwall could in theory provide them power when the grid is on, which I use this often in the afternoons when I need to run AC.

 

[Dan123]

Why would it overload and shut down? As @miimura said, they won't even install that to be backed up because the powerwall can't handle it.

I have a single powerwall 2 and I have my entire house in one subpanel except for my 30amp AC breaker and my 60 amp Tesla wall connector. I have CT clips on those breakers so the powerwall could in theory provide them power when the grid is on, which I use this often in the afternoons when I need to run AC.

Yes, if you put those large loads outside, then no problem. They just won't be backed up by the Powerwall. It also can be a bit expensive to install a new panel, and re-route those loads to the new panel.

 

[miimura]

Yes, if you put those large loads outside, then no problem. They just won't be backed up by the Powerwall. It also can be a bit expensive to install a new panel, and re-route those loads to the new panel.

A "Generation Panel" is a standard part of a Powerwall installation, so segregating loads is normal.

 

[smigit2002]

A "Generation Panel" is a standard part of a Powerwall installation, so segregating loads is normal.

Is it standard? Tesla shows two configurations on their website and in paperwork, one with a generation, or essential/critical loads panel, and the other as a whole house system. I'm actually in the process of trying to convince my solar contractor that they can in fact install the backup gateway between my meter and main panel per Tesla's own documentation, so if something changed and this is no longer an option, I'd love to know!

 

[smigit2002]

I am just beginning my research, but hope to get solar this year for the 30% credit.

Read through this post regarding the tax credit. I am not a lawyer, so you'll have to draw your own conclusions, but all is not necessarily lost if work is not completed by the end of 2019.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

A "Generation Panel" is a standard part of a Powerwall installation, so segregating loads is normal.

I believe it's called a "Backup Load Panel" (in context of discussion). The backup loads panel was standard with my installation. The panel had enough space for generation and didn't need a generation panel (which is really a subpanel of a subpanel). The purpose of the backup load panel was to split off (i.e. remove) the >30A loads from the Powerwall system. @miimura point is the cost is included to segregate loads. <--to a limited extent (my comment).

 

[DrSmile]

I do not have any such panel. The gateway goes directly to my main 200 amp panel, no sub panel of any kind. This is with 2 Powerwalls and solar. There is a breaker in the gateway to take the system off-grid.