Quality ? For tesla MS owners (past Toyota/Lexus owners)

[Johann Koeber]

My 2006 Lexus GS Hybrid did very well with over 200,000 miles (340,000 km). Quality is good, but in the last 2 years several things failed, although the car is not being driven very much. Of all things the inverter (about 7,000 $) and the 12V battery (700 $ - seriously). We are keeping the thing although it isn'b being driven, perhaps once a month.

The 2014 Model S had little problems initially (doorhandle needed to be replaced, DU was replaced twice because of noise). They were all taken care of and I never had to pay a $ (we are well out of warranty with over 110,000 miles in 2 1/2 years).

Having owned a 2013 Model S - I can say quality went up noticably in the 6 months between the two Ss. When I last got a loaner from Tesla I can see the new Model S is much more refined that my car. I would say now they have reached Lexus interior quality.

The drive is a whole different ballpark. Press the accelerator on the Lexus and it seems you are putting in an application for acceleration. After some time the acceleration is granted.

The Tesla comes with instant gratification.

 

[Grossie]

Dear No ICE,

I drove a 1994 Corolla for 7 years and later a 2005 Prius for 10 years. The Prius was replaced with a Tesla Model S 85D (built in April 2015). (My wife has driven a succession of BMW 3 series, a 330i, a 335d, and now a 330e.)

My Toyota products were great. The Corolla was the most reliable car I'd ever driven (my parents bought GM cars in the 70s and 80s, 'nuff said). The Prius was almost perfect...the only major issue in ten years was a water pump failure.

I'm pretty happy with the Tesla hardware quality. My car is pretty recent, so I think Tesla has worked out most of the problems that beset the earlier builds. I had a few cosmetic issues which got addressed a few months in. The trunk latch actuator failed and was replaced under warranty. Those have been the only issues on my car (knock on wood), and I've been pretty satisfied with the quality of the hardware.

The software is a different story (maybe I'm sensitive to this because I write software for a living). Every few weeks I'll need to reboot the CID to clear up some gitch. There are a few quirks and bugs here and there in the infotainment system and the nav unit. I never had any of these problems in (say) my Prius, partially because the Prius was a lot more hard-wired and also because it wasn't trying to do as much. (The S and X have been described as "computers on wheels", well...think about all the bugs in computer software you use every day.) I want to state explicitly however that I have never been in a situation where I thought the car was unsafe.

The way I look at it, my S is way more advanced than my now-ex-Prius. Owning the S, there's a little bit of being on the bleeding edge of technology (even more than a Prius in 2005), and I think it helps enormously to have that expectation going into it. It's going to be cool, but expect to see a few quirks and glitches you wouldn't see on other cars. It helps to stay informed by reading and participating in forums like TMC, as you've been doing. (Note: I'm not a car guy and I have no idea why I have 500+ posts on a car forum.)

At the end of the day, I'm very happy with my S, no regrets at all. I hope you enjoy yours as well. Good luck!

Bruce.

Edit: I wonder what in this post rated a "Dislike", but whatever, I've got more important things in life to think about.

I understand your point about the need for reboot. I'm only 3 weeks in and needed a reboot due to screen lag. It worked, no problems since then. However, do you have any computers/smartphones in your life that do this much and don't require the occasional reboot? I certainly do not. The computers in hybrids get a reboot every time you turn off the car (can you believe people still turn off/on their cars??). The one running nearly everything in your Tesla doesn't. It seems pretty reasonable to me that I'll need to reboot this computer once every couple of weeks.

Back to OP- I've owned Hondas (93 civic si, best car I ever owned), acuras, multiple Lexus'. Nothing comes close to this model S in terms of pure marvel. I can't speak to reliability at this point, I'm too new. I can say that there isn't a squeak in my car, much better than the acura I just came from or the 2015 Lexus my wife drives.

 

[Ciaopec]

I've owned five Lexi, the last two being ls460s. I replaced my latest Lexus with a Model S in 2013. ***SNIP*** My Lexi always turned into rides after the first month of enjoyment--not the Tesla! I enjoy it every time I get behind the wheel.

@ DonL: Caesar would be happy that you have helped Latin grow, expand, and assimilate new words, much like English has done over the centuries!

 

[PtG62901]

I like the Consumer Reports car reviews on these cars, Model S 103 out of 100, Camry about 80? 83? In a Toyota's favor, we have build quality and paint hardness, and on the Model S we have how the car drives, 1/10th the pollution, quieter, etc. I am willing to deal with some minor issues, and get the 103 car.

 

[Filter]

I have a Toyota Sienna for road trips, very reliable, so I thought I would chime in. My Model S has been wonderful, aside from a few reboot events for the center screen and a slightly wonky drivers rearview mirror (have to unfold it sometimes after getting in to make it extend fully, occurs about once a month, not worth a service trip. Literally just hit the fold button again) no issues. Very solid, great experience with autopilot. Love driving it.

Congrats on deciding to buy! Hope you love it as much as I do.

 

[Lon12]

This is why I like TMC so much. I can't believe how similar our stories are. I always tried to purchase the most reliable cars I could. Had two Camry hybrids. They were great but that few thousand feet of silent EV driving always left me wanting for more. I thought I was the only one that was disappointed with Toyota's move to fuel cell.
Like you, after reading about the various issues folks have had on this forum I was perhaps even more undecided about making the purchase. I have to thank the TMC members here for making me comfortable with eventually making the purchase.
Totally agree with DCGOO:

You will only wonder why you waited!...

Anyone that asks me how I like my car always gets the: "It's pure magic!".

 

[bmah]

I understand your point about the need for reboot. I'm only 3 weeks in and needed a reboot due to screen lag. It worked, no problems since then. However, do you have any computers/smartphones in your life that do this much and don't require the occasional reboot? I certainly do not. The computers in hybrids get a reboot every time you turn off the car (can you believe people still turn off/on their cars??). The one running nearly everything in your Tesla doesn't. It seems pretty reasonable to me that I'll need to reboot this computer once every couple of weeks.

You (and much of the rest of the world) have gotten too accustomed to reboots by consumer electronics (including Windows and MacOS computers).

Actually I'm well accustomed to computers that are busy and don't require frequent reboots. I'm a software developer by profession, ex-computer scientist. Before that I admin-ed UNIX / Internet servers back to the late 1980s. We measured the time between reboots in months, generally we'd only need to reboot a system in case of an OS upgrade. As a software developer I've written code for embedded systems that ran for months or years without a reboot with no degradation in performance. My family's mail server (which is a FreeBSD server that I administer) gets a reboot once or twice a year at most, generally for OS or security updates.

The point of the above is that we (the software world) can make software systems that are more reliable than what runs on the Tesla CID. Thankfully the CID doesn't run "nearly everything in your Tesla", in particular it's not the computer that controls the inverters, drive motors, and other critical functions of the car. They're controlled by different a computer or computers, which are engineered to a higher standard of reliability.

Sorry for the off-topic sermon. Getting off my soapbox now.

Bruce.

EDIT: Or maybe the CID hardware is just at its limits. That's being discussed here:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1713594/

It's weird having a discussion of UNIX (well, Linux) system performance on a car forum, but that's no odder than the DNS caching server troubleshooting that was going on a few months ago.

 

[bob_p]

Prior to purchasing our P85 in early 2013, we had owned a series of Toyota vehicles (highlander, sienna, 4Runner) and Lexus cars (GS, LS).

A huge difference is the frequency of maintenance required - having to take in the ICEs much more frequently for service (oil changes, ...) than the Tesla.

Another difference is that the Toyota and Lexus cars have more added price options than Tesla, though Tesla has been catching up since we purchased our P85 - adding power folding mirrors, parking sensors, TACC, auto parking, autopilot, ...

Compared to my Lexus cars, the exterior and interior have held up at least as well in the Model S (we have 75K miles on the car) - and Tesla has made many improvements in the production cars since my early VIN 3xxx P85.

The biggest disappointment in our Tesla continues to be the onboard software. The navigation software is missing features present in my 10 year old LS (waypoints, warning about upcoming accidents, route customization, ...). The media player keeps playing USB music overnight, losing the position in the music (making it so you can't use a USB for an audiobook) and the radio/XM presets get erased periodically. Plus, the onboard software has noticeable problems with the map display and needs to rebooted periodically. Can't recall ever having software problems with any of our Toyota or Lexus cars with touchscreen displays.

However, the software problems are fixable through software updates. Hopefully we'll see some improvements in the upcoming 8.x releases.

Overall, our P85 has been a great replacement for our Lexus and Toyota cars - and it's been great having to skip going to the gas station every week...