AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Depends on the vehicle you're talking about, but for one that started at 310 or 322 miles, or 299 or 304, yes.
For a 353-mile vehicle this would be abnormally low, outside of "normal" but probably still ok.
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Range has never been close to 320 [2019 - rated range complaint]
- Thread starter blkholsun
- Start date
For a 353-mile vehicle this would be abnormally low, outside of "normal" but probably still ok.
Dysan911
Member
This is one area of Tesla ownership that I could never seem to truly understand. The BMS seems to me to always prefer reading less range. I have a pretty typical week with my driving and try to stay consistent with 80% to about 45% daily and then I don't start charging until after the car has sat for a few hours to sleep, so charging starts around Midnight. I've done the process of resetting the BMS by running it from 100% down to single digits before but for the most part it's been a battle to get mine back to the 298 I had only 1 time. 
Compared to the average via Teslafi. You can see my range @ 100% is all over the place. I am done with caring anymore. It used to bother me and was a bit disappointing to see the the range just tank and take a nose dive on the graph but whatever. I just drive it now. No stress as this thing can drive you crazy otherwise.
Blue line is mine and Green is average for other Model 3's like mine.
Compared to the average via Teslafi. You can see my range @ 100% is all over the place. I am done with caring anymore. It used to bother me and was a bit disappointing to see the the range just tank and take a nose dive on the graph but whatever. I just drive it now. No stress as this thing can drive you crazy otherwise. Blue line is mine and Green is average for other Model 3's like mine.
Golf8621204
Member
I'm actually at 251 miles range remaining now and its 70% on my car. So you're way off for a LR
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Depends on the model year. Yours makes sense for a 2022 or later in 2021.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
No. However, the battery is larger, by about 2kWh (compared to your old battery when new - probably at least 5-6kWh more than your battery currently). That’s good. And it has a heat pump/octovalve. This could be good, though won’t matter much in summer.
So little bits here and there. Your vehicle is under rated and would have a higher rated range (by maybe 15km) if retested today with a new battery. Software was updated.
I see you are in Switzerland. Some of the comments about battery size may not apply. No idea what the battery situation is there.
Anyway I would just scale your expected range by the capacity of the pack.
Mine is MY LR 2022 and I have ~8200 miles on it.
I have a MY LR since Feb 2022, now @ ~8200 miles. I used to see 280-285miles @ 90% charge, now I see 260@90% charge. I charged 97% of the time (2x a week) at home. Is this normal?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Actually, it does not.
Lithium ion batteries are not prone to holding less voltage at low temperatures.
The voltage is very steady and in some cases it actually increases at low temperature.
I did a test with a Panasonic 2170 NCA cell the other day. It showed 4.12V stored at +25C and after more than two hours outside at -18, it still showed 4.12V.
Teslas BMS do not change the SOC in the BMS when the battery is cold. But the display show a lower SOC, most likely to show the energy available after the loss from heating the battery pack etc.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
At very cold temperatures it seems that internal resistance goes up considerably (just looked at a couple plots), so presumably that limits the energy that can be extracted, and when the voltage will drop out (too low for what it is driving, even though plenty of energy left)? So even though no change in voltage…there would be a change in voltage under load (which maybe what was meant but it is good to be precise about what is happening).
This is a question. I’ve always assumed that was the reason for the snowflake (which I have never seen of course).
In practice as long as you have high enough SOC presumably pack warms up and it is never an issue.
Car gets very upset if you park at low SOC in low temperatures so I assume this is an actual issue (for very low SOC).
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The internal resistance is higher the lower the cell temp. Even at normal or high temperature. This is why we precondition the battery before SuC to 48-50C.
But internal resistance do not affect the OVC at all, only when drawing current from the battery.
The general thesis about lithium ion is that the OVC reduce when the temperature increase. (This is mainly at high SOC, different types of cells have different temperature/voltage curves. I got the same voltage at +25C and -18C with one of my Panasonic 2170.
As a Tesla normally use like 0.15-0.25C (10-25kW) or so, it would not be any problem to drive even if the battery is very cold, and the car heats the battery to above freezing at latest when we start to drive.
Yes, when driving the voltage drops more with a cold battery than with a warm.
More power = more voltage drop
Colder battery = more voltage drop
Lower SOC = more voltage drop for the same power.
The battery need to drop the voltage to be able to deliver power due to the internal resistance.
The bold part is not really true, if you ask me.
There is no new warnings if you park in very cold weather with very low SOC, the warning is the same as in the summer.
Of course, parking with 0 or 1% in a very cold weather could mean that you have too little energy for the next drive.
But when the car sleeps with the battery disconnected it will not loose voltage due to the cold temperature. If the cells are at 3.00V, they will keep close to 3.00volt when the battery has colled down.
It is a common missconception that it is the voltage drop that cause the low SOC on the screen. It is not, and the BMS still reports the same SOC as when you parked but the screen show a lower number.
I would guess Tesla did it like this to adjust for the energey that will heat the battery (and maybe the car), so that we still can thrust the range number displayed (otherwise 100 miles maybe only get us 90 miles as 10 miles was needed top heat the battery etc.)
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Fair enough. I guess I feel like I have seen scenarios where I parked the car at 90 degrees at low SOC and didn’t see the warning but I could be wrong. I’ve never paid really close attention. I just don’t remember seeing it every time I park at low SOC. But maybe that is because I am always near a Supercharger or my home at low SOC and it masks (blocks) the messages there?
Right, the OCV does not change much at all.
Agreed and agreed.
On this topic, in reference to Calculating Your Battery's Estimated Capacity Using the Car's Energy Screen and calculating the battery capacity.
Going by my energy screen, 141Wh/km * 402km / .83 = 68.3kWh
Which is what ScanMyTesla is also showing exactly: 68.3kWh for "nominal full pack".
But it was my understanding that the nominal full pack figure was inclusive of the energy buffer (for me 3.05kWh). So is my usable battery capacity 65.25kWh (63.3-3.05) or 68.3kWh (and so 71.35kWh total) as provided by the range estimate?
Going by my energy screen, 141Wh/km * 402km / .83 = 68.3kWh
Which is what ScanMyTesla is also showing exactly: 68.3kWh for "nominal full pack".
But it was my understanding that the nominal full pack figure was inclusive of the energy buffer (for me 3.05kWh). So is my usable battery capacity 65.25kWh (63.3-3.05) or 68.3kWh (and so 71.35kWh total) as provided by the range estimate?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
It’s 65.2kWh usable (95.5% of 68.3kWh).
And your displayed rated range at 100% is 87.8% of what the US EPA rated range was for your vehicle. Your pack was originally nominally 77.8kWh including the buffer.
Can u expand on what you mean here please.
Background:
Even though I share a wall charger with my wife & I really only charge my 3 @ work every other day.
I run around on weekends using my 85% charge from Fridays at work
By Monday when I go back into work. I may be starting with a charge as low as 10%.
Luckily this winter has been mostly mild vs history.
But on rare occasions this winter, it has been as low as 20F in my garage overnight. But mostly 40+ most nights. (Unconditioned garage)
Am I damaging the battery?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Just gives you a warning that you may not have enough energy to continue if you park and it is cold or some such (don’t remember exact message).
No. No issues parking at low SOC.
I’m confused! The method gives you the full pack capacity including the buffer. So it should match SMT full pack value approximately. Which you said it did.
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