Referral supercharging to end????

[ZBB]

Way way back, you could add the Supercharging option to S60s and S85s for $2000. It was 'included' in P85s and P85+ (but the price reflected the additional $2000). But that was when the program just started and they needed to raise funds to pay for the SC network build out. The cost to build out SC stations has fallen, and it's now included on (almost) every car, so at most it's worth at most maybe $1000, which is likely still built into the price of each car.

This is not correct. It was a $2k option on the original S60, but it was always included on all 85s.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I agree with you for 2016 and early 2017. But I think late 2017 and today they are. What makes you think they were not last quarter?

The fact that there's absolutely zero inventory cars available makes me think they are intentionally manipulating the inventory and/or intentionally reducing S/X production to get people to buy the full price custom build cars without the large "price reductions" or "showroom discounts" they've had previously. Ostensibly to boost quarterly earnings. And as far as I know, they were only running two shifts on the S/X lines, not three. They could ramp up S/X production, a lot, if they wanted to. If they are production constrained, it's artificial.

This is not correct. It was a $2k option on the original S60, but it was always included on all 85s.

Right, I wasn't sure it was the non-P models or just the 60s (and 40s) that didn't get it, so I punted on that point. Thanks.

 

[jbcarioca]

...

This represents a HUGE loss in value that probably outweighs any savings I have or will make over the lifetime of my car - the ONLY way it retains any value is by me NOT selling it which is ok as I love the car but it means that buying a TESLA will never ever represent value for money especially as free supercharging is supposedly ending on January 31st 2018.

...

First year depreciation on expensive cars in the UK has always been extremely high. Some years ago in London I bought a one- year- old Ferrari for exactly 60% of the new price the seller had paid. (as an aside I bought it from my surgeon-long story). A close friend buys only one to two year old Jaguars and Range Rovers and saves a ton. A quick look at luxury car resale values in the UK will show you Tesla is not unusual at all in that respect.

So, your situation has nothing to do with Tesla and everything to do with the UK company car schemes that encourage new car purchases and rapid turnover. That in turn makes newish used cars excellent buys. If you're really concerned about this issue buy a CPO unless you can have access to a company car scheme.

Anyway, 'Free' Supercharging was always included in the purchase price. More recently 'free' was for the first owner and by referrals, in future we will have pay-per-use. This does not and will not have catastrophic consequence for purchase price. It has mostly psychological consequence in the very short term.

 

[jbcarioca]

Tesla hasn't been production constrained on the S/X for years now. That's a complete myth.

I'm curious. Why do you think that is a myth? It is very rare that I question your point of view, but this seems a stretch since they still have very limited geographic availability. Were they not production constrained would they not expand their physical distribution more than they thus far have done?

 

[HankLloydRight]

What do you mean by "very limited geographic availability"? You mean in the US, or worldwide?

I think, all this is just my opinion, is that Tesla is starting to see demand in S/X wane, hence all the anti-selling the Model 3. They also don't want to get caught (again) with their pants down with hundreds or thousands of "inventory" cars (i.e. new, not demos/loaners) just sitting on lots unsold, forcing them to significantly reduce the price to move them off the lots. That doesn't look good when you're trying to sell an expensive car to people, but prospective buyers know they can wait a week or two and get a good deal from inventory. We saw discounts in the $40k range recently. That's insane, and I don't think Tesla wants to repeat that. So they reduce supply to just below, or meet demand, so they can still maintain the same price. It's basic Econ 101.

Also see: Scarcity heuristic - Wikipedia

I do think sales for MS/MS will be leveling out in the upcoming year. Good thing Tesla has the Model 3, Model Y, Pickup truck, Semi, and Roadster in the pipeline (and who knows what else, motorcycles?). The company can no longer survive on MS/MX alone, which has been their bread and butter up until now.

 

[Unpilot]

In your my tesla account under supercharging it says it goes to the next owner.

That is not what mine says.

You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla vehicle as well as any new Model S or Model X purchased before January 31, 2018. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will not transfer to the next owner. Also, up to five friends you refer will also receive free Supercharging. Read our Supercharging terms.

 

[jbcarioca]

What do you mean by "very limited geographic availability"? You mean in the US, or worldwide?

...

I do think sales for MS/MS will be leveling out in the upcoming year. Good thing Tesla has the Model 3, Model Y, Pickup truck, Semi, and Roadster in the pipeline (and who knows what else, motorcycles?). The company can no longer survive on MS/MX alone, which has been their bread and butter up until now.

I mean both US and worldwide.

I think you're correct about leveling out of MS/MX until they do a model revision. Technology has advanced a long way since the 2010 basic design of the drivetrain for MS and MX. IT is time for a serious update, which should produce longer range, greater efficiency, less passive drain and, crucially, reduced manufacturing complexity, lower parts counts and cheaper sourcing. In the Tesla BEV world that makes the MS/MX obsolescent technically. I do think there will be a serious revision (probably not 'all new' certainly not a 'refresh') within the next few months, prior to Model Y, just about when Model 3 hits 5-7,000 per week reliably.

Among other things that will allow adoption of new motors, vastly reduced wiring, 2170's, interior updates and redesign to permit increased use of robotics (e.g. interior assembly).
Once they do that MS and MX will again be capacity constrained even by your definition and production costs will be reduced.

It will be much less expensive for them to do that than it may appear because they already have done the R&D VAG-style, thus allowing effectively modular adoption across a variety of dissimilar models. After all that is one key reason why Peter and Fritz are there, is it not?

 

[HankLloydRight]

In this particular case, I would wager that the total cost of all superchargers build out, far outweighs the total value they represent to customers.

See, and I would say exactly the opposite. When you say "far outweighs the total value they represent to customers" do you mean actual value, or perceived value? If "actual value" yes, you're right. But perceived value to consumers, which is what I would say what really counts, is far greater than the cost.

The other thing is that Superchargers have a high fixed cost, and very low marginal cost, so over time, the average cost of building and operating a site decreases significantly. After say, five years, the marginal annual cost of operating any site has to be well under the actual value they provide to consumers, but still delivering significant perceived value in every new car they sell. It's brilliant in both plan and execution.

 

[Unpilot]

I consider myself a smart shopper immune to marketing hype.

But come on WE ALL fall for that word free.
Although I hate to admit it the lure of free supercharging was a nice marketing hook.

Sigh I guess I am just a sheeple after all

 

[jbcarioca]

I consider myself a smart shopper immune to marketing hype.

But come on WE ALL fall for that word free.
Although I hate to admit it the lure of free supercharging was a nice marketing hook.

Sigh I guess I am just a sheeple after all

Sadly, one of my academic pursuits resulted in me teaching marketing. I offered my own absolute rationality as evidence. Lessee, Apple, Sonos, Mizuno...the list goes on. None among us can seriously maintain that we are rational shoppers. None...except for my P85D. That was perfectly rational, especially the ‘P’ and the ‘L’.

 

[Unpilot]

Sadly, one of my academic pursuits resulted in me teaching marketing. I offered my own absolute rationality as evidence. Lessee, Apple, Sonos, Mizuno...the list goes on. None among us can seriously maintain that we are rational shoppers. None...except for my P85D. That was perfectly rational, especially the ‘P’ and the ‘L’.

I received my Marketing degree...shall we say a few years ago...but I remember the psychology of shoppers is um...bendable.
I was much more restrained in my purchase...just a 100d...no frivolous P for me!

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

It's nice not to have to think about it and I'm sure that the simplicity of the approach would be attractive to Tesla if it could work.

But, with the effective high up-front cost of a Supercharger parking space, free Supercharging unfortunately also means that the self-selection of high-mileage drivers and Platinum Entitlement Card holders makes it challenging to manage, so I expect to see Tesla continuing to limit and tinker until they can make it work profitably.

 

[jbcarioca]

I received my Marketing degree...shall we say a few years ago...but I remember the psychology of shoppers is um...bendable.
I was much more restrained in my purchase...just a 100d...no frivolous P for me!

From your photo I cannot identify the airplane but I do notice that to be another perfectly rational purchase. I’ve done several me of those too, culminating in the most expensive jacket I ever bought that included a CE-525.

 

[schonelucht]

The fact that there's absolutely zero inventory cars available makes me think they are intentionally manipulating the inventory and/or intentionally reducing S/X production to get people to buy the full price custom build cars without the large "price reductions" or "showroom discounts" they've had previously. Ostensibly to boost quarterly earnings.

I agree it is weird the extent to which they still keep manipulating the inventory and used cars visibility. If they are production constrained then there'd be no reason to. Except maybe that they want to steer buyers to more expensive models? But it's a weak reasoning.

And as far as I know, they were only running two shifts on the S/X lines, not three. They could ramp up S/X production, a lot, if they wanted to. If they are production constrained, it's artificial.

Here I believe the official explanation makes sense. There is just a shortage of manpower. Experienced S/X line workers were moved to the 3 line to make up for shortfalls in production there. They are in a hiring crunch because they anticipated that Model 3 automation line would be much further ahead than it is currently at. You can call that an artificial constrained, I call it more a self-inflicted constraint. But it is a constraint nonetheless.

 

[Unpilot]

From your photo I cannot identify the airplane but I do notice that to be another perfectly rational purchase. I’ve done several me of those too, culminating in the most expensive jacket I ever bought that included a CE-525.

I don't own the plane..I just fly it.

 

[BerTX]

In your my tesla account under supercharging it says it goes to the next owner.

Model S/X delivered before January of 2017 (like yours) got free Supercharging that transfers to the next owner. Cars delivered after that got free Supercharging for the owner with a referral from a current owner, but the free Supercharging does NOT transfer to the next owner.

 

[nowtleft]

It goes with the car for the life of that car.

The person who has disagreed is wrong - SC stays with the car for life and NOT the owner.

 

[nowtleft]

Model S/X delivered before January of 2017 (like yours) got free Supercharging that transfers to the next owner. Cars delivered after that got free Supercharging for the owner with a referral from a current owner, but the free Supercharging does NOT transfer to the next owner.

If this is true Tesla needs to change their website. Typical Tesla, confusion abounds!

 

[nowtleft]

If this is true Tesla needs to change their website. Typical Tesla, confusion abounds!

But it does make my ancient Model S even MORE attractive

 

[BerTX]

If this is true Tesla needs to change their website. Typical Tesla, confusion abounds!

There may also be differences in the policy internationally vs. in the USA.