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Road Noise; Reducing the Model 3 road noise, primarily from tires and louder on rough highway asphalt
- Thread starter Georgesb2
- Start date
Some pictures.
Sorry I can't find better right now.
One is the rear seat with the sound dampers, looks like black patches.
The other is the left rear wheel well before I added my stuff but you can see the factory work.
Looks like I didn't take many pictures of this project.
I'll make a video to document. I'll get around to posting on my You Tube channel which is in my name.
I got a big noise reduction with the felt like mats for airborne noise absorption.
I installed two 2'x4' x1" sheets in the ceiling.
I laid another in the rear deck.
I'm going to put a black one in the front deck. I have a temporary one there now. OMG is strangely quiet in that car now. I don't know if anyone else trying this. All I hear are occasional suspension thuds. I got some pressure buffetting from the rear hatch seal. I'm working on that now.
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Update: 2 November 2023
I may have hit a wall or what economists call, "the law of diminishing returns".
I have cut virtually all noise out of the cabin!
... until ... I'm on very rough asphalt and there are weak but present vibrations come through the entire car. I don't know the frequency and likely it moves up and down with speed. Other than the rough asphalt vibrations, virtually all acoustical noise is being dampened in the cabin. Sometimes it's eerily quiet in the cabin driving down a good percentage of roads.
But there's this remaining "vibration", I'll call it, and only on very rough asphalt. I can put my hand on parts of the interior and feel it. I couldn't feel it and didn't notice it before, but now I'm searching for it and there it is. Touch any part of the car and "listen" via touch. I'm not convinced this is acoustically transferred, it just feels like vibration from the tires/ wheels going through connecting linkages, then throughout the entire car. I say "entire car" because it no longer sounds like it's coming from certain areas, like front or back or sides, etc. It's everywhere. Reducing tire pressure, changing tires, etc. might be the most effective but new tires would be a most costly approach to this and lower tire pressure costs range.
I also haven't given up on my concern about the trunk and the trunk seal. Similar to the Y, the 3 can have this air pressure vibration as the trunk lid moves and ILoveCoffee solved it by stiffening the rubber seal and making adjustments and changes to the trunk lid stops on his model Y. I've ordered a backup trunk lid rubber seal for Model 3 to experiment with. Unlike the Y, the 22 Model 3 rubber gasket is extremely delicate and will tear apart if you force a tube inside of it! I did notice that when I put the trunk back together I had that rubber seal wrong relative to the black plastic that runs at the bottom of the rubber. I fixed it and the "pulsing" pressure was reduced. But knowing that it can be there, I postulate that some remains. I'll address that further in future work. But back to total car vibrations from tires on rough asphalt.
I'd hope that applying dampening to all the linkages from the wheels might reduce it some. Sounds like a daunting task to me. And perhaps I'll have to address doors too, although I was hoping not. I'll just have to give it a try to dampening closest to the source first.
The manufacturer of the sound dampening stuff I use recommends spraying their heavy black coating in all the wheel wells. I'm holding off still. I did that on another car we own and I could not tell if it helped or not. It might possibly help some to reduce the vibration I feel. I don't know yet until I try it.
Two of the biggest findings so far: Add rubber on the outside bottom edge of all doors. Dampen the both the plastic and the metal of the rocker panels. Dampen the rear wheel wells and trunk and sub trunk. Add acoustic dampening panels which are like thick heavy felt (I used 1" thickness) anywhere you can inside the cabin. I found the ceiling and the top surface of the front dash and top surface of the rear shelf all to be productive.
I'll try to keep readers posted on any future revelations or progress.
I may have hit a wall or what economists call, "the law of diminishing returns".
I have cut virtually all noise out of the cabin!
... until ... I'm on very rough asphalt and there are weak but present vibrations come through the entire car. I don't know the frequency and likely it moves up and down with speed. Other than the rough asphalt vibrations, virtually all acoustical noise is being dampened in the cabin. Sometimes it's eerily quiet in the cabin driving down a good percentage of roads.
But there's this remaining "vibration", I'll call it, and only on very rough asphalt. I can put my hand on parts of the interior and feel it. I couldn't feel it and didn't notice it before, but now I'm searching for it and there it is. Touch any part of the car and "listen" via touch. I'm not convinced this is acoustically transferred, it just feels like vibration from the tires/ wheels going through connecting linkages, then throughout the entire car. I say "entire car" because it no longer sounds like it's coming from certain areas, like front or back or sides, etc. It's everywhere. Reducing tire pressure, changing tires, etc. might be the most effective but new tires would be a most costly approach to this and lower tire pressure costs range.
I also haven't given up on my concern about the trunk and the trunk seal. Similar to the Y, the 3 can have this air pressure vibration as the trunk lid moves and ILoveCoffee solved it by stiffening the rubber seal and making adjustments and changes to the trunk lid stops on his model Y. I've ordered a backup trunk lid rubber seal for Model 3 to experiment with. Unlike the Y, the 22 Model 3 rubber gasket is extremely delicate and will tear apart if you force a tube inside of it! I did notice that when I put the trunk back together I had that rubber seal wrong relative to the black plastic that runs at the bottom of the rubber. I fixed it and the "pulsing" pressure was reduced. But knowing that it can be there, I postulate that some remains. I'll address that further in future work. But back to total car vibrations from tires on rough asphalt.
I'd hope that applying dampening to all the linkages from the wheels might reduce it some. Sounds like a daunting task to me. And perhaps I'll have to address doors too, although I was hoping not. I'll just have to give it a try to dampening closest to the source first.
The manufacturer of the sound dampening stuff I use recommends spraying their heavy black coating in all the wheel wells. I'm holding off still. I did that on another car we own and I could not tell if it helped or not. It might possibly help some to reduce the vibration I feel. I don't know yet until I try it.
Two of the biggest findings so far: Add rubber on the outside bottom edge of all doors. Dampen the both the plastic and the metal of the rocker panels. Dampen the rear wheel wells and trunk and sub trunk. Add acoustic dampening panels which are like thick heavy felt (I used 1" thickness) anywhere you can inside the cabin. I found the ceiling and the top surface of the front dash and top surface of the rear shelf all to be productive.
I'll try to keep readers posted on any future revelations or progress.
Yes, very good. I've seen that video before but a very good reminder. I may be buying some of the absorbing materials for behind the plastic wheel well arch liners at some point. It has to be special made for being outdoors and getting wet. I recently bought quite a bit of that noise absorbing material that is designed for inside spaces. I see almost nobody else using it for cars (except for that video you linked). They used to use thin sheets of stuff like that in vintage Cadillacs etc. They now make different types, mostly different thickness, for different noise frequency and different types, shapes etc., for different physical applications. I found it to be extremely effective at absorbing cabin noise! I did a measurement, using a free spectrum analyzer app on my phone, after laying some about all flat areas underneath all glass, roof, front windshield, back glass. That sound absorbing material I had was only up to 2" thick. It really did a good job as it absorbed all the noise well! Except around 75-130 ish hz, it had little effect. And the weird thing is that when I get rid of certain sounds, the others stand out much more. The low frequency now stands out and seems all that remains. Additionally I think that low frequency is the tire vibrations travelling throughout the vehicle through the connecting metal parts. For that low frequency I need much thicker blocks at 4". I've looked at the specifications and ordered some low frequency absorbing blocks of that material at 4". 4" is where that material begins to make a difference at those lower frequencies. The difficulty lies in where to put it so it's not obtrusive. Experimentally I have lined the back deck behind the rear seat in the cabin, below the glass, with 2" thick. It's hardly visually noticeable back there. But even if I put up to 3" thick hardly absorbs that lower end noise around 100 hz. So I have purchased some 4" bass block material specifically made for that lower sound. I have also purchased a 2" thick roll with a black side that I plan to cut to fit for the dash flat part underneath the windshield. I figure 4" would look really silly there. The "extra" pieces that I don't use will go in the inside of the rear wheel wells and front wheel wells. On the insides because that stuff must stay dry. I'll try the 4" block in the rear deck to the extent that I don't block the rear view. Somehow I hope to get some bass block into the cabin, and to the extent that I can much closer the "source" as in the video. Thanks to your video I will give special attention to that vent and get some 4" pieces and some 2" pieces. That should absorb quite a bit. But what I think is happening now is vibration. The vibration is low frequency and comes from the tires on rough asphalt. I feel it in the entire car if I really try. I figure I have smaller chance of stopping all the vibration everywhere without new wheels and tires and better chance absorbing it where I hear it most, inside. That's because the vibration being largely conducted through the metal arms and drive line parts, then conducted through the metal in the entire car, I'd virtually have to sound dampen and sound absorb 100% of the car's materials everywhere. That's not going to happen. I'll keep chipping away at it. But I'm really pleased with how well thicker sound absorbing materials work, such as those pictured in the video you linked. Appreciate your comment and I'll learn from it and make those changes. Thank you.
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Thx for sharing
I have a tip that might help identifying spots
I recorded the loud noise when driving at highway speeds on rough asphalt
I then use a portable speaker that plays good bass and playback the noise
I then place the speaker on different locations to find where the isolation is leaking
For example I put it on top a tire in the well, and then I sit in the car and try to find where the sound comes from
In the example the sound is loudest just below the small rear window. Seems like that area is not well isolated. Coincidentally
It is where I have two large foam blocks.
Another test was puting the speaker in the trunk.
And the whole rear shelf seemed to leak and resonante. Perhaps where the shelf meets the rear window seems like there is a gap there
Anyway. I think is a good way to isolate the source
I have a tip that might help identifying spots
I recorded the loud noise when driving at highway speeds on rough asphalt
I then use a portable speaker that plays good bass and playback the noise
I then place the speaker on different locations to find where the isolation is leaking
For example I put it on top a tire in the well, and then I sit in the car and try to find where the sound comes from
In the example the sound is loudest just below the small rear window. Seems like that area is not well isolated. Coincidentally
It is where I have two large foam blocks.
Another test was puting the speaker in the trunk.
And the whole rear shelf seemed to leak and resonante. Perhaps where the shelf meets the rear window seems like there is a gap there
Anyway. I think is a good way to isolate the source
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I just changed to winter tires, here in Sweden we need to change during winter
And those are usually much softer
The car is very quiet now to the point I can hear the motor wine in the highway
the noise that is most noticeable now is the low frequency brumming that seems to come from the chassis, and the wind
I don’t think this noise can be reduced by foam and such? But with deadening material covering the whole wheel arch’s probably.
There is a video where a MY owner got a lot of noise reduction by putting 3 layers of deadening directly on top the metal of the arch’s
After that the MY has a OEM foam cover that reduces noise further. This is missing on the M3
And those are usually much softer
The car is very quiet now to the point I can hear the motor wine in the highway
the noise that is most noticeable now is the low frequency brumming that seems to come from the chassis, and the wind
I don’t think this noise can be reduced by foam and such? But with deadening material covering the whole wheel arch’s probably.
There is a video where a MY owner got a lot of noise reduction by putting 3 layers of deadening directly on top the metal of the arch’s
After that the MY has a OEM foam cover that reduces noise further. This is missing on the M3
Is the foam cover inside the cabin dry space?
How thick of it?
I measured approximately 100 hz tires noise. It's very difficult to dampen. Different tires should help.
I'm still trying various ideas.
this video shows How they sit inside the dry space ontop the metal.
The video also shows some kind of felt around the front liners. I don’t tecal seeing those before maybe is a new addition ?
This is from the parts catalog and MY seems to have these foam parts on front and back
The video also shows some kind of felt around the front liners. I don’t tecal seeing those before maybe is a new addition ?
This is from the parts catalog and MY seems to have these foam parts on front and back
I believe I've significantly reduced all noise so I am at a pause in this work, also I'm waiting for a shipment of more and more specific airborne sound blocking materials... I've reduced all noise...
except for the "tire vibration" on rough asphalt that move throughout the vehicle at around 100 hz. I have a '22 Model 3 Performance and the suspension is low and tight.
But.... I lowered the tire pressure down to 36psi cold from 42psi, and it seemed to cut that down quite a bit, possibly as much as half? I'll continue to monitor because at times I'm more sensitive to those sounds. To get much further will likely require other tires/wheels because my remaining issue is that tire on asphalt vibration.
For now, I'm going to continue with noise absorption designed for that frequency and hope for the best.
As far as tire and wheel changes for more improvement...
I chatted with Tire Rack and they suggested that an all season tire won't be as noisy as my OEM performance summer tires. I have nothing to really back that assertion up. But I priced the recommended tire. I can get all 4 at COSTCO for a good price as a member. But it's still another $1300 or so. I'll wait until my tires are more worn down for such an investment.
I consider this effort to be a success and I learned a great deal. I believe I've minimized the work and investment by attempting to strategically attack the sounds and by doing it step by step. This work isn't for everyone. And my solutions might not appeal to everyone. But it's working for me. I hope this entire thread helps someone. I'll make a video some day as well.
The helpful comments proved useful. I used the record/playback idea with a powerful high fidelity speaker. That is really useful. I also started to do sound tests. The best and most useful was a free app that's a spectrum analyzer. With that I learned that I had cleaned up the noise quite well except for that tire vibration around 100hz. That readout plus me trying to feel the vibration is what made me certain.
I didn't remove the rear subwoofer unit to do work inside the rear wheel well cavity. If the rear still seems to still be a major source I will. I will be adding those bass block pieces in various places as well.
except for the "tire vibration" on rough asphalt that move throughout the vehicle at around 100 hz. I have a '22 Model 3 Performance and the suspension is low and tight.
But.... I lowered the tire pressure down to 36psi cold from 42psi, and it seemed to cut that down quite a bit, possibly as much as half? I'll continue to monitor because at times I'm more sensitive to those sounds. To get much further will likely require other tires/wheels because my remaining issue is that tire on asphalt vibration.
For now, I'm going to continue with noise absorption designed for that frequency and hope for the best.
As far as tire and wheel changes for more improvement...
I chatted with Tire Rack and they suggested that an all season tire won't be as noisy as my OEM performance summer tires. I have nothing to really back that assertion up. But I priced the recommended tire. I can get all 4 at COSTCO for a good price as a member. But it's still another $1300 or so. I'll wait until my tires are more worn down for such an investment.
I consider this effort to be a success and I learned a great deal. I believe I've minimized the work and investment by attempting to strategically attack the sounds and by doing it step by step. This work isn't for everyone. And my solutions might not appeal to everyone. But it's working for me. I hope this entire thread helps someone. I'll make a video some day as well.
The helpful comments proved useful. I used the record/playback idea with a powerful high fidelity speaker. That is really useful. I also started to do sound tests. The best and most useful was a free app that's a spectrum analyzer. With that I learned that I had cleaned up the noise quite well except for that tire vibration around 100hz. That readout plus me trying to feel the vibration is what made me certain.
I didn't remove the rear subwoofer unit to do work inside the rear wheel well cavity. If the rear still seems to still be a major source I will. I will be adding those bass block pieces in various places as well.
Thx for sharing your findings. I’ll will add similar deadening and some fiber ontop the wells aswell
I found some images on how the Mercedes EQC has its isolation. It is perhaps the quietest EV.
I found some images on how the Mercedes EQC has its isolation. It is perhaps the quietest EV.
I plan to use the same material, essentially the same manner. However after reading specifications. I need some of the 4" thick Bass Block. Same materials/design, It's just much thicker. I need that to make any real impact in noise down close to 100 hz. The remaining noise, which I think is tires on rough asphalt, I have measured are close to 100 hz, so I need the 4" for that. I will also use various thickness in a number of locations. I've already stuffed foam that I had on hand but this week more of the proper type will arrive and I'll be installing it. Additionally, I just sound dampened the trunk lid. By that I mean the part that opens. I knock tested and it vibrated a lot! Taking the plastic off wasn't difficult. I went after that also because after doing the recorded noise, then playback on a good powerful speaker system, a lot of noise was penetrating the back end from the outside, travelled all the way to the front seat, in spite of all the stuff I've added and the rear seats upright and locked and the trunk lid fully closed. Reducing tire pressure helps reduce that annoying tire vibration noise which I measured near 100 hz, but not enough. Every little bit of progress is good. Also, I've been studying aftermarket shock absorbers. I've read tests where they reported highway vibrations were reduced! And that's my "final frontier". I will likely replace the shocks. I have my eyes on a set of 4 for about $600.
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There are no shocks at $600 range that would work well to make the ride smoother. Probably better off going with Koni Reds (basically what Tesla is using in the Highland update) or Koni Yellows that are adjustable.
This is a very thorough review of these $600 shocks here on this very forum.
Some additionally use spring changes, many do not. You don't have to for street applications and stock height. I do not plan on spring changes. Just the $600 shocks. Lots of positives all over, including here.
Tein EnduraPro Plus - Review
Hi Folks, I haven't read anything on the forum about these shocks, so I'll post up a review for posterity. Background: my early 2019 M3 SR+ rides like crap. The roads in my area are pretty bad and it just crashes and bounces over road imperfections. It feels like I'm driving a shifter cart on...
teslamotorsclub.com
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Tein EnduraPro Plus - Review
Hi Folks, I haven't read anything on the forum about these shocks, so I'll post up a review for posterity. Background: my early 2019 M3 SR+ rides like crap. The roads in my area are pretty bad and it just crashes and bounces over road imperfections. It feels like I'm driving a shifter cart on...
Towards the end they summarize their impressions:
No continuous oscillations! Less road surface oscillations. !!!!!!
Tein EnduraPro Plus - Review
Hi Folks, I haven't read anything on the forum about these shocks, so I'll post up a review for posterity. Background: my early 2019 M3 SR+ rides like crap. The roads in my area are pretty bad and it just crashes and bounces over road imperfections. It feels like I'm driving a shifter cart on...
I did use your approach and it proved very easy and very helpful.
I made some changes based largely upon the results from these tests.
I happened to have a portable speaker system of very high quality and good strong power.
I placed it at various locations, and went inside the car.
Thanks again for that suggestion. I added it as a tool in my arsenal.
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