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Russia/Ukraine conflict

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There are 35 losses of Ka52 in the Oryx list, so the actual will likely be higher. Crew training cycle will likely be quite long, and morale amongst that cadre must be somewhat brittle by now. The more that are removed from the equation whilst protecting these static forward positions, the fewer will be available during the manoeuvre phase.

It seems likely to me that the Russians would be basing the Ka52 mostly in territory that is not accessible to Storm Shadow (ie original Russian territory east of Azov Sea, where the political agreement with UK is to not use these weapons) and then forward deploying for minimum time on ground in occupied territory, with those sites relocating frequently. I am sure the UKR side is trying to identify ways at them.


Overall it seems to me the UKR are doing an excellent job of picking apart the Russian lines in a cost-effective manner, with the fewest possible UKR troops lost whilst making progress in sufficient widespread locations that Russia cannot risk deploying its reserves to reinforce only one sector.

The Russians and Germans both created a lot of ad hoc frontline airfields in WW II. Many Russian aircraft had extremely short ranges, so the bases needed to be right behind the lines. They got good at these pop-up airfields. For helicopters you need less of a facility than for fixed wing aircraft.

I read somewhere that a lot of the Ka-52 that had been deployed to Zaporrezhia had been taken out in the last couple of weeks. The appearance of Russian airpower is probably more desperation than some new tactic. The Russians could have been using their helicopters all along with the same threats from air defense.

They are probably committing the aircraft now because their artillery is running short. I read last week that there is some evidence that most of the artillery ammunition made in Russia in 2023 has been banned for use because of a tendency to go off prematurely when handling or loading into a gun.

The Ukrainians have also been racking up a lot of artillery knock outs in the last couple of months.

Between those two things, combined with wear and tear losses for artillery, Russia may be having problems with their artillery and the helicopters are being pressed into service despite the high risk environment.

The Wall Street Journal had a somewhat hair on fire article about how the Ukrainian offensive has failed, but I don't see it. It's going slower than many expected, but it's not dead. Ukraine may have slowed down the offensive because the Russians are insisting at throwing their combat units at the Ukrainians ahead of their trenchlines instead of hanging back and waiting for the Ukrainians to come to them. It's an insanely stupid strategy.

But the Ukrainians probably figure might as well go onto the defense for a short bit, eat up those units trying to attack them then resume the offensive when the Russian units have been chewed up and can't defend their positions.
 
The Russians and Germans both created a lot of ad hoc frontline airfields in WW II. Many Russian aircraft had extremely short ranges, so the bases needed to be right behind the lines. They got good at these pop-up airfields. For helicopters you need less of a facility than for fixed wing aircraft.

I read somewhere that a lot of the Ka-52 that had been deployed to Zaporrezhia had been taken out in the last couple of weeks. The appearance of Russian airpower is probably more desperation than some new tactic. The Russians could have been using their helicopters all along with the same threats from air defense.

They are probably committing the aircraft now because their artillery is running short. I read last week that there is some evidence that most of the artillery ammunition made in Russia in 2023 has been banned for use because of a tendency to go off prematurely when handling or loading into a gun.

The Ukrainians have also been racking up a lot of artillery knock outs in the last couple of months.

Between those two things, combined with wear and tear losses for artillery, Russia may be having problems with their artillery and the helicopters are being pressed into service despite the high risk environment.

The Wall Street Journal had a somewhat hair on fire article about how the Ukrainian offensive has failed, but I don't see it. It's going slower than many expected, but it's not dead. Ukraine may have slowed down the offensive because the Russians are insisting at throwing their combat units at the Ukrainians ahead of their trenchlines instead of hanging back and waiting for the Ukrainians to come to them. It's an insanely stupid strategy.

But the Ukrainians probably figure might as well go onto the defense for a short bit, eat up those units trying to attack them then resume the offensive when the Russian units have been chewed up and can't defend their positions.
My view remains very different from the WSJ. I believe the Ukrainian plan was to talk about and then establish a broad front in the south, south of Donbass in any case. They've been attempting to get Russia to react and transfer troops just as they did last year. In this way they can identify HQ and ammunition depots by watching what moves before Russia can disguise. You'll notice that the dramatic loss of russian leaders stopped last fall, all winter we didn't see russian generals or even colonels getting blown up. Now we do. Now we also see ammo depots going.

So now the russians have committed more troops (pulled them from Kherson) and are committing advanced attack helicopters. Don't make such a big deal of this- they have hundreds and hundreds of older but quite functional attack helicopters. What's important is that for at least a few days the attack helicopters are in the wrong place at the wrong time. They'll attack in another spot too far from Zap/Kherson for the helicopters to be of much use. By the time they re relocated the Ukrainians will be through those lines and, as I think it will be the north, it should be infantry country - much better to hide and not so great for air power. Then we will see real movement and then Ukraine will hammer the south.

So, my advice is not to focus on the losses but to focus on the forces committed. Ukraine is not attacking the helicopters, nor the service teams, nor the fuel depots. Open source people posted about the k52 being move to Zap province (airfields along the coast) 2 weeks ago. You could see the hangers and revetments in great detail. Ukraine did not attack. So that means they are not high priority or they have an extreme shortage of storm shadows or launch platforms. If they started taking out just 1-2 a week Russia would be forced to move the whole fleet again. They don't do it so this means they don't mind
 
There is also this argument being made, that there would be further invasions in the future, unless Putin gets toppled and Russia defeated. We heard such arguments about an inevitable war with the Soviet Union during the Cold War, and they weren't any better then than they are now.
Except we have much more recent events to compare with. Remember when Putin was allowed to take Crimea in 2014? Obviously that didn't satisfy him and encouraged him to try for more. There must be negative consequences for such actions.
 
......

As for preventing further invasions in the future, what is required is Russia not gaining anything from this war. I don't think any on the opposing side is hopeful that necessarily Putin will be toppled or Russia's government necessarily to change much even if Putin was toppled. Negotiations where there is a temporary ceasefire and Russia still holding on to annexed territory have already been shown to be a completely failed strategy that will not lead to long term peace. Not sure why people think it would be any different if we tried the same thing.
Excuse me, what is this assertion based on? when Putin occupied the Crimea in 2014 the costs for Russia ere relatively low, despite Western sanctions, and the rewards for Russia were high.
As a result he did see Ukraine as weak and he tried to take all of Ukraine last year.

Now the rewards for Russia have been very small, even in a best case scenario for Russia, while the costs have been enourmous. Additionally Russia knows that Ukraine will be well prepared and massively armed in any future conflict.
Yet despite these completely opposing situations for Russia we are supposed to believe that Russia will attack again? Why exactly?
 
Excuse me, what is this assertion based on? when Putin occupied the Crimea in 2014 the costs for Russia ere relatively low, despite Western sanctions, and the rewards for Russia were high.
As a result he did see Ukraine as weak and he tried to take all of Ukraine last year.

Now the rewards for Russia have been very small, even in a best case scenario for Russia, while the costs have been enourmous. Additionally Russia knows that Ukraine will be well prepared and massively armed in any future conflict.
Yet despite these completely opposing situations for Russia we are supposed to believe that Russia will attack again? Why exactly?
It is not as if Russia doesn't have form. Here is a list of ongoing Russian invasions of nearby states in the post Soviet era, please excuse me if I've missed any.

South Ossettia (Georgia), 1991
Transnistria (Moldova), 1992
Abkhazia (Georgia), 1992
First Chechen war (Chechnya), 1996
Second Chechen war (Chechnya), 2000
Georgia, 2008
Crimea (Ukraine), 2014
Donbas (Ukraine), 2014
Ukraine, 2022

(Belarus can also be counted given the ongoing Russian slowmo takeover in support of the current puppet dictator)

As to the why exactly - presumably carelessness or habit.

(Chechnya was trying to assert its constitutional right to independence, and actually achieved it between 1996 and 2000 before being crushed. There were others in Ingushettia etc so this is not a full list.)

(See Post-Soviet conflicts - Wikipedia for more)
 
Excuse me, what is this assertion based on? when Putin occupied the Crimea in 2014 the costs for Russia ere relatively low, despite Western sanctions, and the rewards for Russia were high.
As a result he did see Ukraine as weak and he tried to take all of Ukraine last year.

Now the rewards for Russia have been very small, even in a best case scenario for Russia, while the costs have been enourmous. Additionally Russia knows that Ukraine will be well prepared and massively armed in any future conflict.
Yet despite these completely opposing situations for Russia we are supposed to believe that Russia will attack again? Why exactly?
You are using our logic, i.e., how we would evaluate things were we under attack. Everything I’ve seen and read says, their leadership and culture think differently. Their logic - “if I can’t have it, I will raze it.” The nationalist philosophy and hubris that underlies their world view is now clear. Until that is defeated, there won’t be lasting peace.
 
Now the rewards for Russia have been very small, even in a best case scenario for Russia, while the costs have been enourmous. Additionally Russia knows that Ukraine will be well prepared and massively armed in any future conflict.
Yet despite these completely opposing situations for Russia we are supposed to believe that Russia will attack again? Why exactly?
Why do you assume the costs have been enormous and the gains very small in the eyes of the Kremlin? Ukraine has been devastated, big chunks of the country occupied, no way Ukraine will become a member of NATO while this conflict lingers on. That's probably considered a smashing success by some. Not to mention that the war was and is a good excuse to crush (more so than before) any opposition in Russia.

As for cost; a human life is worth very little in Russia. Equipment can be replaced and state propaganda can spin anything into a good result. Sanctions hurt, but so far not fatally.

Do not apply (western) logic to Russian politics. I'd say the risk of history repeating itself (again) is very large if Putin can sort of get away with this.
 
Selective memories being reappraised


From that Guardian article:

"...] But Germany’s Russia policy lost its way after the cold war, as large parts of the SPD maintained a naive attachment to the principle of “change through trade” and remembered or reinterpreted Brandt’s policy in a selective way. Decades after Brandt, Gerhard Schröder, another SPD chancellor, is accused of turning this cherished and widely idealised tradition into a convenient excuse for prioritising German business interests in Russia over the geopolitical concerns of Germany’s central and eastern European Nato and EU allies. [My underline.] [..."

Many 'business interests' that aren't German are still operating in Russia...

Why? Greed?

Here's a couple:

Pepsi, Danone, Nestlé (Nescafé, KitKat After Eight), Mars (Snickers, Twix, Mars, etc.), Procter & Gamble (Gilette), Carlsberg, Mondelez (Toblerone), Unilever (GB Clace), L'Oreal (Axe, Dove) and many more companies and brands. Ukraine's anti-corruption agency specifically lists Mondelez, Yves Rocher, Xiaomi and Procter & Gamble to just name corporations active in the consumer goods sector.

Here's a complete list:
 
It is not as if Russia doesn't have form. Here is a list of ongoing Russian invasions of nearby states in the post Soviet era, please excuse me if I've missed any.

South Ossettia (Georgia), 1991
Transnistria (Moldova), 1992
Abkhazia (Georgia), 1992
First Chechen war (Chechnya), 1996
Second Chechen war (Chechnya), 2000
Georgia, 2008
Crimea (Ukraine), 2014
Donbas (Ukraine), 2014
Ukraine, 2022

(Belarus can also be counted given the ongoing Russian slowmo takeover in support of the current puppet dictator)

As to the why exactly - presumably carelessness or habit.

(Chechnya was trying to assert its constitutional right to independence, and actually achieved it between 1996 and 2000 before being crushed. There were others in Ingushettia etc so this is not a full list.)

(See Post-Soviet conflicts - Wikipedia for more)
Right, and which of these countries were armed up to their teeth with Western arms?
 
From that Guardian article:

"...] But Germany’s Russia policy lost its way after the cold war, as large parts of the SPD maintained a naive attachment to the principle of “change through trade” and remembered or reinterpreted Brandt’s policy in a selective way. Decades after Brandt, Gerhard Schröder, another SPD chancellor, is accusedof turning this cherished and widely idealised tradition into a convenient excuse for prioritising German business interests in Russia over the geopolitical concerns of Germany’s central and eastern European Nato and EU allies. [My underline.] [..."

Many 'business interests' that aren't German are still operating in Russia...

Why? Greed?

Here's a couple:

Pepsi, Danone, Nestlé (Nescafé, KitKat After Eight), Mars (Snickers, Twix, Mars, etc.), Procter & Gamble (Gilette), Carlsberg, Mondelez (Toblerone), Unilever (GB Clace), L'Oreal (Axe, Dove) and many more companies and brands. Ukraine's anti-corruption agency specifically lists Mondelez, Yves Rocher, Xiaomi and Procter & Gamble to just name corporations active in the consumer goods sector.

Here's a complete list:
Thanks for posting.

IMHO not all should cease operations; more than a few of these serve as excellent windows into Russian economy, commerce and defense operations.

For example, here in the US, China-made ship-to-shore cranes likely spy on US commerce.
 
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After the annexation of Crimea in 2014 Germany imposed quite costly sanctions on Russia, while both the US and the UK were mostly talking tough but were far more restrained when it came to imposing sanctions.
What was the favourite spot for Russian oligarchs to settle down in? London? Who has the son of a high ranking KGB officer in the Upper House?
Additionally, the past 20 years were wasted spending gargantuan sums on these hare-brained wars in the Middle East, with the US still squatting uninvited in places like Syria. The money wasted on these wars could well have been spent on maintaining defence capabilities in Europe.
 
From the Youtube-account Ukraine Matters:


"ATTENTION! Information Hazzard!

There is a wave of misinformation that is spreading quickly, so I am giving you a heads-up on the actual situation.

The ISW in their latest assessment have stated that UA counteroffensive will stop for 7 days. You can imagine the hype waves it's causing.

This is due to misreperesentation of the actual words of the person who said it - the head of the Estonian Defense Forces Intelligence Center Colonel Margo Grosberg. Or maybe even worse isw just grabbing the headline statement. [My underline.]

What he actually meant is that HE THINKS that AFU will continue smaller scale attacks with artillery strikes, but there will be no BIG MAIN PUSH for at lest the next week.This is very different from claiming that UA offensive activities are stopping.

Full interview here:
https://news.err.ee/1609010342/intell...

To be honest I would rather we take away from his interview this:

Col. Grosberg said that when the question arises on why the Ukrainian counteroffensive seems from a civilian perspective as per media reports to be taking its time, this is completely logical from a military point of view... [..."

 
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Excuse me, what is this assertion based on? when Putin occupied the Crimea in 2014 the costs for Russia ere relatively low, despite Western sanctions, and the rewards for Russia were high.
As a result he did see Ukraine as weak and he tried to take all of Ukraine last year.

Now the rewards for Russia have been very small, even in a best case scenario for Russia, while the costs have been enourmous. Additionally Russia knows that Ukraine will be well prepared and massively armed in any future conflict.
Yet despite these completely opposing situations for Russia we are supposed to believe that Russia will attack again? Why exactly?

Russia will come out of this war very degraded and may not be a severe threat for some time to come. But this sends a message to other would be territory grabbers like Xi Jingping. Xi is much less likely to make an attempt to grab Taiwan if he knows the rest of the world will unite behind Taiwan and that the flow won't stop until his military is defeated.

Then there are the right wing politicians around the world who are allied with Putin. Putin has been working for 20 years to energize far right political movements around the world and quite a few right wing politicians are overtly allied with him and even more have been his unwitting fool.

Orban and Erdowan are two NATO member leaders who are overtly in his corner, though the conditions of the war have forced them to pull back a little in their Putin loving. Marie LePen in France and a number of far right politicians in the US are vocal Putin lovers. Some US politicians would be happy to send the 1st US Armored Division in to help Putin, though most are clearly opposed.

In early 2021 the US avoided an overthrow of the government and an establishment of a dictatorship by a pro-Putin politician. That would have not just been a disaster for the US, but the entire world. That same wanna be dictator is trying to get back into power and there is a segment of American voters who will vote for him no matter what facts come out about him.

The extreme right tends to go for strong men types who at least talk about getting what they want with violence. When a prominent strong man goes down, their allies in other countries tend to go to ground and the far right movement they supported tends to lose strength. Russia losing this war would likely weaken the far right movements in a lot of western democracies. There are other factors at play that would not eliminate them, but the pro-democracy forces opposing these movements will get a chance to drive at least some of the extremists from power.

The UK doesn't have too many overt Putin supporters, but do have a number of unwitting fools that Moscow manipulated. The biggest coup the Russians pulled off on the UK was Brexit. They successfully got Britain to economically shoot itself in the foot and the pro-Brexit politicians like Boris Johnson rode the wave into power with further negative consequences for the country.

The far right around the world has been in ascension for at least 20 years and Putin has been encouraging it at every turn. If Russia clearly loses this war, ie spent a lot of blood and treasure and got nothing, then politically things will get unstable within Russia. Putin will likely fall from power, but even if he holds on he would likely be like Saddam Hussein was after the first Gulf War. He was still brutal on his own people, but was not much of a danger to his neighbors.

Anybody who takes over from Putin might be ruling a much smaller Russia as parts break away, and/or would be embroiled in a civil war with rebels and unable to mess with others outside Russia's borders.

Strong men and people who support strong men are not often the most imaginative people. Trying to convince a strong man supporter that the strong man is leading them to disaster is probably not going to work. However if they see physical proof that the strong man route led to disaster, they are more likely to believe it. I can go more into the Psychology of it, but it would be a very long post.

It seems that I can no longer access The Daily Mail for some reason...

Here's that explosion. Fast forward to the 01:00 mark. I'm guessing the Ukrainians in that trench at a minimum suffered concussions and other shock wave injuries. How severe could those shock wave injuries have been?...


Not just the shock wave, but the explosives were inside a fairly heavily armored vehicle. When they went up the shrapnel would have been lethal out hundreds of meters. If the guys in the trench had their heads down some may have been buried by collapsing trench wall, but otherwise probably would have survived.

Ruble erosion continues:

View attachment 948480

Remember early in the invasion we had someone here crowing about how strong the ruble was and how Russia was coming out great from the war. That cheer leading has stopped.