Scary theory re: rear passenger seat misalignment issue...

[CopperGreen]

Hope I'm wrong.
Let me first use simplified geometry to convey this hypothesis.
Imagine you're standing at the back of the MY. Imagine next that the car is a rectangle. The top and bottom(where you're standing), are the short elements and the left and right (driver and passenger side) elements are longer- say for this example, 2x longer. Now place a point in the middle of these long side elements.
OK, GULP, here we go...
If we shift the left element backward, say by an inch, we would now have a parallelogram. If the rear seat backrests can be thought of as two lines, each originating at the mid point of the side long elements and perpendicular to them, they will not connect in the middle. They would if we had a true rectangle.
I believe the early MYs are parallelograms due to a weld fixture problem early in the production line.
While this wouldn't effect handling it would cause all the body panel alignment issues we're seeing. It would also explain why they say there is no fix for the seat back offset.
I'm due to pick up MY in an 1.5 hours.
The first thing I check will be that rear row. I'm also gonna bring a tape measure and take some diagonal measurements. I will reject the car if there is more than 1/4" variance.

 

[Chrisacorbett]

Hope I'm wrong.
Let me first use simplified geometry to convey this hypothesis.
Imagine you're standing at the back of the MY. Imagine next that the car is a rectangle. The top and bottom(where you're standing), are the short elements and the left and right (driver and passenger side) elements are longer- say for this example, 2x longer. Now place a point in the middle of these long side elements.
OK, GULP, here we go...
If we shift the left element backward, say by an inch, we would now have a parallelogram. If the rear seat backrests can be thought of as two lines, each originating at the mid point of the side long elements and perpendicular to them, they will not connect in the middle. They would if we had a true rectangle.
I believe the early MYs are parallelograms due to a weld fixture problem early in the production line.
While this wouldn't effect handling it would cause all the body panel alignment issues we're seeing. It would also explain why they say there is no fix for the seat back offset.
I'm due to pick up MY in an 1.5 hours.
The first thing I check will be that rear row. I'm also gonna bring a tape measure and take some diagonal measurements. I will reject the car if there is more than 1/4" variance.

Thats a great idea to measure. Would you mind explaining exactly what you are measuring? I have my only delivery happening within the next few days.

 

[garrett5688]

Don’t forget your tinfoil hat

 

[dgstan]

Di you do this type of analysis on other cars you've bought?

 

[LevelHeaded]

If I understand what you’re saying correctly, wouldn’t the issue be forward/rearward alignment of the seats rather than vertical?

The documentation I’ve seen of this issue indicates the passenger side rear seat’s left side appears to be too high (as in off the ground) compared to the center seat...

edit: also, this is more of a conspiracy theory than a reasoned one

 

[mmanner]

Hope I'm wrong.
Let me first use simplified geometry to convey this hypothesis.
Imagine you're standing at the back of the MY. Imagine next that the car is a rectangle. The top and bottom(where you're standing), are the short elements and the left and right (driver and passenger side) elements are longer- say for this example, 2x longer. Now place a point in the middle of these long side elements.
OK, GULP, here we go...
If we shift the left element backward, say by an inch, we would now have a parallelogram. If the rear seat backrests can be thought of as two lines, each originating at the mid point of the side long elements and perpendicular to them, they will not connect in the middle. They would if we had a true rectangle.
I believe the early MYs are parallelograms due to a weld fixture problem early in the production line.
While this wouldn't effect handling it would cause all the body panel alignment issues we're seeing. It would also explain why they say there is no fix for the seat back offset.
I'm due to pick up MY in an 1.5 hours.
The first thing I check will be that rear row. I'm also gonna bring a tape measure and take some diagonal measurements. I will reject the car if there is more than 1/4" variance.

Even assuming what you say is correct (what is your basis for assuming it might be?), it is going to be hard to accurately measure to within 1/4" your diagonals. Indexing for measuring things accurately is critical and hard to do on a 3 dimensional real world object as big as a car using a tape measure. What you want to measure I think is the frame underlying the trim elements, which I don't see how you can do. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[PatinCT]

Just to recap... your theory is that MYs need to have their frames straightened coming off the line? I think that's going to be tough for you to measure with a tape measure.

 

[FredMertz]

Hope I'm wrong.
Let me first use simplified geometry to convey this hypothesis.
Imagine you're standing at the back of the MY. Imagine next that the car is a rectangle. The top and bottom(where you're standing), are the short elements and the left and right (driver and passenger side) elements are longer- say for this example, 2x longer. Now place a point in the middle of these long side elements.
OK, GULP, here we go...
If we shift the left element backward, say by an inch, we would now have a parallelogram. If the rear seat backrests can be thought of as two lines, each originating at the mid point of the side long elements and perpendicular to them, they will not connect in the middle. They would if we had a true rectangle.
I believe the early MYs are parallelograms due to a weld fixture problem early in the production line.
While this wouldn't effect handling it would cause all the body panel alignment issues we're seeing. It would also explain why they say there is no fix for the seat back offset.
I'm due to pick up MY in an 1.5 hours.
The first thing I check will be that rear row. I'm also gonna bring a tape measure and take some diagonal measurements. I will reject the car if there is more than 1/4" variance.

I'm not sure that a car in the condition you describe could drive correctly. It works if the car is a simple rectangle, but the number of things that would need to be wrong to get a car with so many components to do that seems immense.

 

[dandrewk]

I'm not sure that a car in the condition you describe could drive correctly. It works if the car is a simple rectangle, but the number of things that would need to be wrong to get a car with so many components to do that seems immense.

Agreed. Any such misalignment should make itself abundantly obvious with a test drive. A professional driver would notice it the car was continuously pulling/pushing while making hard turns or hard accelerations. I also question if such a car would even pass federal safety inspections.

 

[CopperGreen]

Not really frame straightening but rather the initial body in white sheet metal components not being seated correctly in the weld fixture or the robot on one side not matching the robot on the other side.

If the issue is vertical misalignment on the seats then that is a different animal.

As for driving, if the body sits on a skateboard that has the suspension components included with the battery then a tweaked body wouldn't effect handling to much. Yes. the top of the shocks mount to the body but they could be racked several inches before impacting handling.

LOL. I just looked at how the rear seats operate- they are different from my Subaru and GF's Volvo. In those cars there are catches at the tops of the sides of the seat backs. Not on the Tesla. My theory is only applicable to cars with the side catches.

My apologies for posting this before knowing the layout of the MY and assuming it was similar to other vehicles in the class.

Should have known Tesla would do something different.

 

[LevelHeaded]

Not really frame straightening but rather the initial body in white sheet metal components not being seated correctly in the weld fixture or the robot on one side not matching the robot on the other side.

If the issue is vertical misalignment on the seats then that is a different animal.

As for driving, if the body sits on a skateboard that has the suspension components included with the battery then a tweaked body wouldn't effect handling to much. Yes. the top of the shocks mount to the body but they could be racked several inches before impacting handling.

LOL. I just looked at how the rear seats operate- they are different from my Subaru and GF's Volvo. In those cars there are catches at the tops of the sides of the seat backs. Not on the Tesla. My theory is only applicable to cars with the side catches.

My apologies for posting this before knowing the layout of the MY and assuming it was similar to other vehicles in the class.

Should have known Tesla would do something different.

How did the delivery overall go? Were there any major issues?

Edit: also what's your build and vin range?