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SEC Lawsuit

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I think what you're saying is clear and indisputable. What is in dispute is the penalty they're suing for. Removing him as CEO? For a tweet where within a week the stock price had retreated anyhow? Again, I'm not a finance guy, but this seems to me like killing a fly with a hydraulic hammer. I'd also question why there's a concurrent DOJ investigation.

That tweet caused a short squeeze that cost investors an estimated 1.6B. Regardless of how you feel about short sellers, if you lie to destroy their positions, there are consequences. Not to mention, longs who piled in on the news got burned when it reversed.

Why it's a big deal is only partially to do with Tesla/Elon. It cannot be open season for a public company to make material misstatements, especially on something as serious as taking a company private. The stakes of allowing such a thing from such a publicly visible company implies the markets are completely lawless.

As beloved a company as Tesla is, my guess is the SEC didn't want to go near them knowing they'd get a lot of mud on their shoes in the process (already seeing posts that the SEC is the bad guy), but Elon left them no choice.
 
Excellent points and I agree with all of them including your follow up. The SEC just wants to fine Elon in a big way. It will probably get resolved in a medium to small way.

Well that’s what people said when an SEC investigation was announced that it would be a slap on the wrist. Now they are trying to get him barred from serving as an executive officer.

Guess we will see.

Board has to be seriously wondering how toxic and expensive this can get at a time that couldn’t be worse.
 
Best case scenario is non material fine for Tesla and Elon staying CEO. If he was found guilty, I would not be surprised if Elon offered to make a significant payment to investors who were hurt by the tweet.
 
Short sellers and other Tesla skeptics promote some wacky conspiracy theories, like that Tesla airlifts cars in a rush to meet delivery targets (presumably with black helicopters). Funny how on the other side, some Tesla fans believe that SEC enforcement action is the result of some sort of secret government plot.

I’d like to hear more expert legal analysis. My main question right now is whether the judge deciding the case will consider potential harm to Tesla investors if Elon is removed as CEO. In their complaint, the SEC cited harm to Tesla investors who bought shares after Elon’s initial tweets. But I would imagine even more harm to Tesla investors would come as a result of removing Elon.

In their complaint, the SEC mentions that Tesla shares went up 11% following Elon’s initial tweets. Currently, Tesla is down 12% after hours following the SEC’s publication of their complaint. If Elon were actually removed, presumably the impact would be much worse.
 
Well that’s what people said when an SEC investigation was announced that it would be a slap on the wrist. Now they are trying to get him barred from serving as an executive officer.

Guess we will see.

Board has to be seriously wondering how toxic and expensive this can get at a time that couldn’t be worse.

Yeah, the board thinks he’s so toxic and expensive they already made a public statement that they support and stand behind him.

You must have also missed the part where Elon changed his mind and decided not to settle but to fight the SEC.

In 3, 2, 1... Yep, there it is. Thanks.
 
Yeah, the board thinks he’s so toxic and expensive they already made a public statement that they support and stand behind him.

You must have also missed the part where Elon changed his mind and decided not to settle but to fight the SEC.

In 3, 2, 1... Yep, there it is. Thanks.

It doesn’t matter what they say or what Elon tweets. SEC won’t go away till they get their pound of flesh. We will see how that manifests and we will see what investor confidence looks like over next week.
 
I watched the SEC news conference live from their website and the after hours trading activity. Added a few shares to my tiny position in TSLA.**

My take (I am not a lawyer):
  1. "Fraud" will be hard to prove. Doesn't someone have to intentionally benefit for it to be fraudulent activity? The complaint does not assert any benefit to Musk (or anyone) from his tweet.
  2. The SEC remedy of removing Musk from Tesla and prohibiting him from running a public company is a ridiculous overreach. It's a negotiating position. They'll give this up to settle.
  3. Even if Musk leaves, as largest shareholder he will still have huge influence. I don't expect he would pull a Steve Jobs/Apple move of selling all his stock in anger.
  4. Tesla is now established. The company is not going away.
  5. It's very curious how the SEC reached a decision so quickly. As someone already said the SEC took two years(!!) to investigate Theranos. The big shorts are the types who know people who know people in the SEC. I'd look for undue influence in the decision-making process.
Here is a link to the SEC complaint (PDF): https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2018/comp-pr2018-219.pdf

**This is not financial advice. TSLA is a risky investment.
IANAL, but the SEC has to show scienter, and something a reasonable person would consider reckless can satisfy that.

https://www.sec.gov/news/extra/silicon.txt

What seems kind of tenuous to me is that the SEC is saying his tweets falsely implied was virtually certain he could take Tesla private at $420/share.

SEC said:
Musk’s statements, disseminated via Twitter, falsely indicated that, should he so choose, it was virtually certain that he could take Tesla private at a purchase price that reflected a substantial premium over Tesla stock’s then-current share price, that funding for this multi-billion dollar transaction had been secured, and that the only contingency was a shareholder vote.Musk’s statements, disseminated via Twitter, falsely indicated that, should he so choose, it was virtually certain that he could take Tesla private at a purchase price that reflected a substantial premium over Tesla stock’s then-current share price, that funding for this multi-billion dollar transaction had been secured, and that the only contingency was a shareholder vote

I think the critical part for them is to show that their interpretation is the only reasonable interpretation. For instance, in the following tweet, I would interpret the "this" to refer to "Investor support", but the SEC assumed it applies to the whole Tesla go private deal.

Elon said:
Investor support is confirmed. Only reason why this is not certain is that it’s contingent on a shareholder vote.

Something that could further muddy the waters is that while there are guidelines for disclosure documents, I don't believe all corporate communications are considered disclosure documents and I don't think other forms of communications has guidelines that are as clear.

https://www.sec.gov/pdf/handbook.pdf

Along the same lines, forward looking statements are also protected, although they have to include cautionary information about those statements.

SEC Rule 10b-5 - Wikipedia

My feeling is that the SEC is charging Musk/Tesla so they can find more information that supports their case during discovery, assuming their case isn't thrown out.

Private Securities Litigation Reform Act - Wikipedia

The second and third circuit also have more permissive standards for determining that scienter is sufficiently pleaded than the other circuits.

Four circuits, the First, Fourth, Sixth and Ninth, require a direct comparison of the plausibility of competing inferences. Unless the culpable inference is the "most plausible," it is not "strong" and the complaint should be dismissed. Two circuits, the Eighth and the Tenth, consider all inferences, both of scienter and of an innocent mental state, using the innocent inferences to test whether the culpable interest is strong, but do not directly weigh one against the other. The Second and Third circuits divide the factual allegations bearing on a defendant's mental state into categories, "motive and opportunity" and "strong circumstantial evidence" of knowing or reckless conduct, either of which may independently satisfy the strong inference requirement. And, the Seventh Circuit... did not consider competing inferences, but concluded that if an inference of culpability exists, the pleading is sufficient.

Private Securities Litigation Reform Act - Wikipedia
 
Board has to be seriously wondering how toxic and expensive this can get at a time that couldn’t be worse.

Tesla is not a defendant in the case, only Elon is. So I don’t think it costs Tesla anything.

I think there is very little chance that the Board would vote to remove Elon as CEO without at least first putting it to a shareholder vote. Shareholders might end up firing the Board if they made that decision unilaterally. In June, 83.5% of shares voted to keep Elon on as Chair. Most who voted to remove him as Chair still wanted him as CEO.

Plus, the Board has a fiduciary responsibility to Tesla shareholders. If the Board has reason to believe that removing Elon as CEO would negatively impact long-term value creation, then it would go against their fiduciary responsibility to do so.
 
Tesla is not a defendant in the case, only Elon is. So I don’t think it costs Tesla anything.

I think there is very little chance that the Board would vote to remove Elon as CEO without at least first putting it to a shareholder vote. Shareholders might end up firing the Board if they made that decision unilaterally. In June, 83.5% of shares voted to keep Elon on as Chair. Most who voted to remove him as Chair still wanted him as CEO.

Plus, the Board has a fiduciary responsibility to Tesla shareholders. If the Board has reason to believe that removing Elon as CEO would negatively impact long-term value creation, then it would go against their fiduciary responsibility to do so.

How do you square the board taking their fiduciary responsibilities seriously when dealing with a CEO that causes massive valuation changes to the company stock every time he sends out a half baked tweet?

Generally curious.

I love Elon Musk, his vision is incredible. He is also a lot like a kid running around with a box of matches and a can of gasoline.

Would kill to be a fly on the wall at next board meeting that will probably revolve around this latest legal issue.
 
Why are so many here touting this idea that the SEC is violating the law as a result of enforcing the law? not how it works

The SEC is obviously not violating the law. I am just wondering how judges decide these SEC enforcement cases. Do judges consider how their ruling would affect shareholders? Or do they leave that consideration aside?
 
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That tweet caused a short squeeze that cost investors an estimated 1.6B. Regardless of how you feel about short sellers, if you lie to destroy their positions, there are consequences. Not to mention, longs who piled in on the news got burned when it reversed.

Why it's a big deal is only partially to do with Tesla/Elon. It cannot be open season for a public company to make material misstatements, especially on something as serious as taking a company private. The stakes of allowing such a thing from such a publicly visible company implies the markets are completely lawless.

As beloved a company as Tesla is, my guess is the SEC didn't want to go near them knowing they'd get a lot of mud on their shoes in the process (already seeing posts that the SEC is the bad guy), but Elon left them no choice.

Shorts are not investors. Hell, swing traders and market makers aren't investors. Investors are long.

So no, investors did not lose 1.6B due to a squeeze.
 
I think what you're saying is clear and indisputable. What is in dispute is the penalty they're suing for. Removing him as CEO? For a tweet where within a week the stock price had retreated anyhow? Again, I'm not a finance guy, but this seems to me like killing a fly with a hydraulic hammer. I'd also question why there's a concurrent DOJ investigation.

If this were a Hollywood movie I'd be expecting a twist where it turns out the DOJ was investigating SEC and Wall St big shots all along for shenanigans, and that Tesla/Elon were providing testimony / evidence, rather than being the targets.

Sadly, that is surely to remain a dream.
 
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How do you square the board taking their fiduciary responsibilities seriously when dealing with a CEO that causes massive valuation changes to the company stock every time he sends out a half baked tweet?

Elon has a responsibility to be truthful, clear, and complete in his public statements about matters like this. A sensible process would be to run the exact wording of major announcements — like the plan to go private — by the Board, Tesla’s lawyers, and the CFO (or other relevant executives).

That said, Elon has only made this mistake once, and hopefully he will follow a sensible process in the future. So, I think removing Elon as CEO (before he is ready to execute a succession plan) would do more harm than good.

What Elon did was wrong because what he said was unclear and incomplete, and therefore potentially misleading. As jcasetnl said:

It cannot be open season for a public company to make material misstatements, especially on something as serious as taking a company private. The stakes of allowing such a thing from such a publicly visible company implies the markets are completely lawless.

Even if what you say is technically true, it’s still important to be clear and complete in what you say to avoid inadvertently misleading market participants. I believe that Elon did not lie — he did not intend to say anything he knew to be false, and he did not intend to deceive anyone — but he was so careless in the way he made the announcement that many people got the wrong idea. Clearly, we don’t want this kind of behaviour to become a pattern in the stock market. That’s why I see enforcement action against Elon as justified, although I believe removal as CEO would be a step too far.

I don’t know how seriously I take the idea that Elon’s tweets did real financial harm to investors. Tesla’s stock price has fluctuated wildly for years. On August 7, the day of Elon’s tweets, the stock price moved 11%. On August 2, before any of this happened, the stock moved 16%. On July 3, it moved 7%. On June 6, it moved 10%. On April 3, it moved up 6%, then up 7% the day after, and 6.5% the day after that. On March 28, it moved 8%. On a February 8, it moved 9%.

So, an 11% price move isn’t that out of the ordinary for Tesla. These daily price movements are more noise than signal, and trading on a short-term basis is highly risky, speculative, and random. The price movement on August 2 had more impact on investors. What Elon did doesn’t seem to have more effect than just the semi-random, ordinary volatility of Tesla stock.

I believe focusing on short-term stock price movements is irrational. We should evaluate stock prices on a 5-year timeframe, not a 5-day timeframe. So the Board should certainly not be concerned with these day-to-day fluctuations. It would be better if they didn’t check the stock price every day, and just ignored the noise and distraction of daily trading activity.
 
Diferent sure, but this is so Apple.

Jobs forced out, Apple struggled.
Jobs returned Apple soared.

People with the inspirational leadership of Jobs and Musk are probably counted worldwide on one hand per generation.

The US would do well to remember this before it throws its world leadership in EVs into the gabage can and hands it to China.
 
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Diferent sure, but this is so Apple.

Jobs forced out, Apple struggled.
Jobs returned Apple soared.

People with the inspirational leadership of Jobs and Musk are probably counted worldwide on one hand per generation.

The US would do well to remember this before it throws its world leadership in EVs into the gabage can and hands it to China.

Your version of Apple history skipped quite a few points. Your statements are true, but incomplete and paints an inaccurate picture. It happened over 30 years ago, so maybe you forgot, or you just didn't know. But Jobs was forced out because of problems at Apple. The Apple Lisa, for example. Yes, the company did even more poorly afterwards, but Apple was experiencing a lot of problems even before that. In addition, Job's next company, NEXT, was not very successful at all (business-wise, not in terms of legacy).

You're trying to link Jobs with 100% success, but the facts do not support that.

Moreover, many people have noted that Jobs changed and matured in many ways in the decade or so that he was outside Apple. This makes sense. You can't assume that a successful Jobs in the 2000s (or even the entrepreneur Jobs of the 70s) would have done well running a large company in the 80s, (And in fact, he didn't do so well in the 80s.)
 
And so, the standard of American justice as it pertains to corporations and teachers is set into motion. Guilty until proven innocent. It is now up to Elon and Tesla to prove innocence. The stock and the reputation of the company suffer purely from the accusation. No evidence needed. No proof of guilt required. Very sad to see.

Dan

I'm sorry but Musk did this to himself. The wild gyrations in Tesla stock price in recent months have been due to Musk's irresponsible actions. As a Tesla stock holder, I am very disappointed by the stock recently, and Musk is the main person who bears responsibility for that.

Using your words, "the stock and the reputation of the company suffer purely from his whims. No evidence needed. No proof of "funding secured" or even thoughtful planning required. Very sad to see."

Elon is probably better situated in a visionary / engineer / evangelist product role. But as a leader, manager, and CEO, he is doing the job very poorly. And yes, knowing how his statements affect his company and shareholders and the legal ramifications of those words is a huge part of the CEO job description.