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Selling puts and calls?

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jbih

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Supporting Member
Jul 3, 2018
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Germany
What is your opinion on both selling puts and calls? I assume selling puts alone is a good strategy to acquire stock I don't mind having, but that only works if I have a supply of money from outside this account.

I sold a put for 0.99 at $245, then after acquiring the shares, sold a call at $250 and lost the shares again. In the end I had ~$830 more (100*($0.99+$2.40+($250-$245)) minus the fees).

If the stock didn't have the volatility, I would still have collected $339 in premiums minus fees.

So is this a strategy with mostly upsides? What am I overlooking?
 
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What is your opinion on both selling puts and calls? I assume selling puts alone is a good strategy to acquire stock I don't mind having, but that only works if I have a supply of money from outside this account.

I sold a put for 0.99 at $245, then after acquiring the shares, sold a call at $250 and lost the shares again. In the end I had ~$830 more (100*($0.99+$2.40+($250-$245)) minus the fees).

If the stock didn't have the volatility, I would still have collected $339 in premiums minus fees.

So is this a strategy with mostly upsides? What am I overlooking?

I think many folks on here do it, including myself. It's pretty satisfying and you can make a lot of money with it, but I would say the most important thing to do (aside from basic stuff like don't let your stock get called at less than you bought it) is set firm limits on these positions and stick to them. There are two emotional factors that sneak in here that you must be absolutely rigid against.

The first factor is that getting assigned shares with puts can feel like a bargain, but getting your stock called away can be painful because you're probably both leaving money on the table and you feel like you're missing out on the price action.

The second factor is that as the stock goes up, you feel richer, more risk tolerant, and have a higher margin capacity. This can lead to entering trades that you shouldn't be entering.

When you sell puts and calls, it's very easy to get in the mindset of "oh well I didn't really mean to buy these shares but I'll just sell calls against them and make money in the meantime."

This is mostly true! But when you combine it with the other two factors it becomes very easy to take on (and hold on to) more stock than you really should be owning, and likely at bad prices. Consider when the stock is at ATH: Your mind will say "Don't sell calls! It's really going to the moon this time and your account is big and you can take on a little extra risk."

So you decide to sell puts. Bad idea. TSLA has touched $380 how many times? And each time it seemed like the real deal. Now your puts are more likely to get assigned and the shares you get assigned will be much harder to unload by selling calls since you bought them at such a high price. And now you're stuck with them. (Think about all the people that bought just after "Funding secured" tweet, including myself! They all wish they had that money freed up right now)

TLDR: keep things in balance. Limit yourself to X amount of shares/X% margin capacity/$X as your option play position and be absolutely disciplined about it. You must remember that TSLA rises and TSLA falls. You can only play off the volatility if you have the capacity for doing so, which means don't get bogged down in dumb emotionally-driven positions.
 
I sell puts (secured by cash; sometimes by margin) and
I sell calls (secured by shares - always)

The point of it is to sell time value. Since the time value depreciates most
during the final week before expiry, I prefer weekly options.

Being putted or called is only by accident.
Position is closed when time value approaches zero. If putted or called with time value > 0, I am gifted the time value.

Usually looking for delta of 20 initially; if the option goes in the money, it can be rolled a week out and a strike or two away from the money - usually for a credit.

With the cash made from this strategy I take about 1/4 to cover tax liability, the rest is invested in more core shares; thus enabling to sell even more weekly calls.
 
Being putted or called is only by accident.
Position is closed when time value approaches zero. If putted or called with time value > 0, I am gifted the time value.

Usually looking for delta of 20 initially; if the option goes in the money, it can be rolled a week out and a strike or two away from the money - usually for a credit.

When do you roll it? As soon as it goes into the money or rather on Friday before close?

Would you explicitly advise against not rolling?

Thanks!
 
I sell puts (secured by cash; sometimes by margin) and
I sell calls (secured by shares - always)

The point of it is to sell time value. Since the time value depreciates most
during the final week before expiry, I prefer weekly options.

Being putted or called is only by accident.
Position is closed when time value approaches zero. If putted or called with time value > 0, I am gifted the time value.

Usually looking for delta of 20 initially; if the option goes in the money, it can be rolled a week out and a strike or two away from the money - usually for a credit.

With the cash made from this strategy I take about 1/4 to cover tax liability, the rest is invested in more core shares; thus enabling to sell even more weekly calls.

Would you mind sharing the strike prices you had for this week and/or next?
 
Calls:
May17'19 240 0.49
May17'19 250 0.213
May17'19 255 0.163

The number after the call is the Delta. Usually I aim for 0.2, but
the 240s are at the money and were sold today for $5.
All of these are covered by shares.

Puts:
May17 242.5 -0.584
May24 245 -0.592
May30 250 -0.649

These were all rolled from higher strike prices, some of them farther out than 1 week in order to roll them for a credit.
All of these are covered by cash and a little bit of margin.