Wow, just realized the roll I made for the 4/3 -p1000 to 20/1/2023 -p800 was denied by my brockerage this morning. This ended my day with a -250k loss instead of a +250k day. That sucks a little bit. It results in my puts being back at the absolute bottom without being able to benefit from the reversal. I know it won’t look big in 10 years when my shares have 5x or more but today it feels like Putin robbed me from half a mil. I know it’s nothing compared to the 173 victims in Ukraine who died today but this is a mess. My only thought of the day. Phoque you Putin. Stay safe everyone.
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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House
- Thread starter adiggs
- Start date
AquaY
Member
Why was it “denied”?
Why didnt you know it right away?
did you get a confirm and then it was cancelled? Weird.
BTW, which broker?
Wheel is tricky that we analyze it without a huge drop the following week after share assignment. Imo right now is excellent time to take assignment at these low prices.sorry for newbie questions... i think i am quite good at spreads/strangles/IC/straddles/CC, but i am a dummy about the Wheel
let me make sure i understand
if i STO 2/25 -p750 x10 (credit $1.50) and tomorrow's close is 740, then saturday i have 1000 shares on my all-cash acct
monday i STO 3/4 -c750 x10 CC $63 credit (assume prem is not changing this weekend to keep it simple)
this means next week i get $63k and i don't care if sp closes at 600 or 900 and i don't care if i lose the garbage shares
what am i missing? this is too good to be true
TIA!
On other news I continue to do nothing to my 780 BPS expiring Friday. I continue strategy to not roll until Friday. Definitely helped I didn’t open a ton this week due to Russia uncertainties.
if SP goes above 813 you forfeit all gains above. i.e. if we rally to 950 you miss out on ~130k on gains on those shares.sorry for newbie questions... i think i am quite good at spreads/strangles/IC/straddles/CC, but i am a dummy about the Wheel
let me make sure i understand
if i STO 2/25 -p750 x10 (credit $1.50) and tomorrow's close is 740, then saturday i have 1000 shares on my all-cash acct
monday i STO 3/4 -c750 x10 CC $63 credit (assume prem is not changing this weekend to keep it simple)
this means next week i get $63k and i don't care if sp closes at 600 or 900 and i don't care if i lose the garbage shares
what am i missing? this is too good to be true
TIA!
if SP dips and never recovers the 63k/week will get slimmer & slimmer
BOTH are not likely outcomes
The wheel fires back HARD if IV is very low & you get a breakout (to either side). Hard in the sense: you miss out on all the upside. Can be worth it for the regular income, though.
I placed the order at to roll at market open because I had 20k margin call the day before at close and they asked me to resolve within 48h. I started my case in the OR at 9h00 and got out at 11h. The roll was denied because they didn’t BTC and then STO the new contracts in the order I placed them. National Bank brokerage. Now I am sitting only on TSLA shares and since the contracts were bought back at a loss I have margin interest to pay. I will use that to transfer all my assets to IBKR because it is impossible to trade option on National Bank platform. Just learned it at a high cost. My portfolio is down 60%. Ouch
corduroy
Active Member
That is some expert level restraint to not roll yesterday, when the markets were in full on panic mode.
If I would have done nothing yesterday, I would be in a much better position today, but I rolled. Doing nothing is often the hardest strategy to follow, but looking at my trading log there are countless times where it would have been the best move.
My track record as a contrarian indicator holds strong.... I knew a V shaped recovery was coming, but a potential margin call forced me to flip roll my 720/620 BPS yesterday morning at the open (expiring today) to 850/950 BCS for next week (at a much lower premium). Now the BCS might be threatened. At least I can try to roll those up and out since my margin only increases as the SP goes up.... 
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The extreme price drops had me closing all my Jan 23, 24 CC's for big gains. ( ~ 900K. Overall account obviously down, but this provided a good cushion)
Starting fresh and with a clean sheet - and starting to sell weekly CC's. Staying far OTM and getting pennies. ( Each time I will buy shares )
Thinking how to sell at 3 strikes each week ( aggressive, neutral and passive) - and use combo of the 3.
Strikes above 900, 950 works best - I sold shares for leaps at 800, 850 and will be OK to part with some of these.
Hope at some point to be able to sell the Leap CC's above 2K once again. or mid-range CC's once IV is relatively high.
Doing is learning, and will change plans as it goes. Trying best to stay safe and not be overly greedy.
cheers!!
Starting fresh and with a clean sheet - and starting to sell weekly CC's. Staying far OTM and getting pennies. ( Each time I will buy shares )
Thinking how to sell at 3 strikes each week ( aggressive, neutral and passive) - and use combo of the 3.
Strikes above 900, 950 works best - I sold shares for leaps at 800, 850 and will be OK to part with some of these.
Hope at some point to be able to sell the Leap CC's above 2K once again. or mid-range CC's once IV is relatively high.
Doing is learning, and will change plans as it goes. Trying best to stay safe and not be overly greedy.
cheers!!
I did some very basic analysis to see the friday to friday percent changes to see what strikes would have expired safe. I also looked at percent change from previous friday high to current friday close. Based on this 3 month data if you sold one week out at the friday high you'd be safe going 20% OTM for puts. If selling at close previous friday 12% OTM was safe too. I'm using data from Yahoo finance. Obviously not advice and this shouldn't be the only data used to select strikes.
| Date | Open | High | Low | Close | Adj Close | Daily Chg | Week Chg | High v Close |
11/26/2021 | 1099.47 | 1108.78 | 1081 | 1081.92 | 1081.92 | |||
11/29/2021 | 1100.99 | 1142.67 | 1100.19 | 1136.99 | 1136.99 | 4.84% | ||
11/30/2021 | 1144.37 | 1168 | 1118 | 1144.76 | 1144.76 | 0.68% | ||
12/1/2021 | 1160.7 | 1172.84 | 1090.76 | 1095 | 1095.00 | -4.54% | ||
12/2/2021 | 1099.06 | 1113 | 1056.65 | 1084.6 | 1084.60 | -0.96% | ||
12/3/2021 | 1084.79 | 1090.58 | 1000.21 | 1014.97 | 1014.97 | -6.86% | -6.60% | -9.24% |
12/6/2021 | 1001.51 | 1021.64 | 950.5 | 1009.01 | 1009.01 | -0.59% | ||
12/7/2021 | 1044.2 | 1057.67 | 1026.81 | 1051.75 | 1051.75 | 4.06% | ||
12/8/2021 | 1052.71 | 1072.38 | 1033 | 1068.96 | 1068.96 | 1.61% | ||
12/9/2021 | 1060.64 | 1062.49 | 1002.36 | 1003.8 | 1003.80 | -6.49% | ||
12/10/2021 | 1008.75 | 1020.98 | 982.53 | 1017.03 | 1017.03 | 1.30% | 0.20% | -7.23% |
12/13/2021 | 1001.09 | 1005 | 951.42 | 966.41 | 966.41 | -5.24% | ||
12/14/2021 | 945 | 966.41 | 930 | 958.51 | 958.51 | -0.82% | ||
12/15/2021 | 953.21 | 978.75 | 928.25 | 975.99 | 975.99 | 1.79% | ||
12/16/2021 | 994.5 | 994.98 | 921.85 | 926.92 | 926.92 | -5.29% | ||
12/17/2021 | 914.77 | 960.66 | 909.04 | 932.57 | 932.57 | 0.61% | -9.06% | -9.48% |
12/20/2021 | 910.7 | 921.69 | 893.39 | 899.94 | 899.94 | -3.63% | ||
12/21/2021 | 916.87 | 939.5 | 886.12 | 938.53 | 938.53 | 4.11% | ||
12/22/2021 | 965.66 | 1015.66 | 957.05 | 1008.87 | 1008.87 | 6.97% | ||
12/23/2021 | 1006.8 | 1072.98 | 997.56 | 1067 | 1067.00 | 5.45% | 12.60% | 9.97% |
12/27/2021 | 1073.67 | 1117 | 1070.72 | 1093.94 | 1093.94 | 2.46% | ||
12/28/2021 | 1109.49 | 1119 | 1078.42 | 1088.47 | 1088.47 | -0.50% | ||
12/29/2021 | 1098.64 | 1104 | 1064.14 | 1086.19 | 1086.19 | -0.21% | ||
12/30/2021 | 1061.33 | 1095.55 | 1053.15 | 1070.34 | 1070.34 | -1.48% | ||
12/31/2021 | 1073.44 | 1082 | 1054.59 | 1056.78 | 1056.78 | -1.28% | -0.97% | -1.53% |
1/3/2022 | 1147.75 | 1201.07 | 1136.04 | 1199.78 | 1199.78 | 11.92% | ||
1/4/2022 | 1189.55 | 1208 | 1123.05 | 1149.59 | 1149.59 | -4.37% | ||
1/5/2022 | 1146.65 | 1170.34 | 1081.01 | 1088.12 | 1088.12 | -5.65% | ||
1/6/2022 | 1077 | 1088 | 1020.5 | 1064.7 | 1064.70 | -2.20% | ||
1/7/2022 | 1080.37 | 1080.93 | 1010 | 1026.96 | 1026.96 | -3.67% | -2.90% | -5.36% |
1/10/2022 | 1000 | 1059.1 | 980 | 1058.12 | 1058.12 | 2.94% | ||
1/11/2022 | 1053.67 | 1075.85 | 1038.82 | 1064.4 | 1064.40 | 0.59% | ||
1/12/2022 | 1078.85 | 1114.84 | 1072.59 | 1106.22 | 1106.22 | 3.78% | ||
1/13/2022 | 1109.07 | 1115.6 | 1026.54 | 1031.56 | 1031.56 | -7.24% | ||
1/14/2022 | 1019.88 | 1052 | 1013.38 | 1049.61 | 1049.61 | 1.72% | 2.16% | -2.98% |
1/18/2022 | 1026.61 | 1070.79 | 1016.06 | 1030.51 | 1030.51 | -1.85% | ||
1/19/2022 | 1041.71 | 1054.67 | 995 | 995.65 | 995.65 | -3.50% | ||
1/20/2022 | 1009.73 | 1041.66 | 994 | 996.27 | 996.27 | 0.06% | ||
1/21/2022 | 996.34 | 1004.55 | 940.5 | 943.9 | 943.90 | -5.55% | -11.20% | -11.45% |
1/24/2022 | 904.76 | 933.51 | 851.47 | 930 | 930.00 | -1.49% | ||
1/25/2022 | 914.2 | 951.26 | 903.21 | 918.4 | 918.40 | -1.26% | ||
1/26/2022 | 952.43 | 987.69 | 906 | 937.41 | 937.41 | 2.03% | ||
1/27/2022 | 933.36 | 935.39 | 829 | 829.1 | 829.10 | -13.06% | ||
1/28/2022 | 831.56 | 857.5 | 792.01 | 846.35 | 846.35 | 2.04% | -11.53% | -18.69% |
1/31/2022 | 872.71 | 937.99 | 862.05 | 936.72 | 936.72 | 9.65% | ||
2/1/2022 | 935.21 | 943.7 | 905 | 931.25 | 931.25 | -0.59% | ||
2/2/2022 | 928.18 | 931.5 | 889.41 | 905.66 | 905.66 | -2.83% | ||
2/3/2022 | 882 | 937 | 880.52 | 891.14 | 891.14 | -1.63% | ||
2/4/2022 | 897.22 | 936.5 | 881.17 | 923.32 | 923.32 | 3.49% | 8.34% | 7.13% |
2/7/2022 | 923.79 | 947.77 | 902.71 | 907.34 | 907.34 | -1.76% | ||
2/8/2022 | 905.53 | 926.29 | 894.8 | 922 | 922.00 | 1.59% | ||
2/9/2022 | 935 | 946.27 | 920 | 932 | 932.00 | 1.07% | ||
2/10/2022 | 908.37 | 943.81 | 896.7 | 904.55 | 904.55 | -3.03% | ||
2/11/2022 | 909.63 | 915.96 | 850.7 | 860 | 860.00 | -5.18% | -7.36% | -8.90% |
2/14/2022 | 861.57 | 898.88 | 853.15 | 875.76 | 875.76 | 1.80% | ||
2/15/2022 | 900 | 923 | 893.38 | 922.43 | 922.43 | 5.06% | ||
2/16/2022 | 914.05 | 926.43 | 901.21 | 923.39 | 923.39 | 0.10% | ||
2/17/2022 | 913.26 | 918.5 | 874.1 | 876.35 | 876.35 | -5.37% | ||
2/18/2022 | 886 | 886.87 | 837.61 | 856.98 | 856.98 | -2.26% | -0.35% | -6.88% |
2/22/2022 | 834.13 | 856.73 | 801.1 | 821.53 | 821.53 | -4.32% | ||
2/23/2022 | 830.43 | 835.3 | 760.56 | 764.04 | 764.04 | -7.52% | ||
2/24/2022 | 700.39 | 802.48 | 700 | 800.77 | 800.77 | 4.59% |
john tanglewoo
2012 Roadster Owner
Quick question as I am going through this, I'm in the process of monitoring my first Cash Secured Put.
On Feb 22 I sold 3 contracts for a March 18 720 put for a premium of 14.9. (I only collected $4,262 though, $208 less than I thought I would - is this due to fees?).
Anyway as we all know yesterday the stock dropped very quickly below 720 and all the way to 699 before popping back up.
I called my broker to ask if I was assigned and he said I wasn't. Can someone tell me how that works? I figured as soon as my put got in the money, somebody would pick it up and I would have to purchase shares.
Is this (assignment to purchase the shares) something that would only happen at expiration?
Can you only get assigned if your put expires in the money? So anytime before expiration you still have a chance to roll it, etc.?
And does it make sense to open more CSP positions in the meantime?
I do have an understanding of how to roll the put if I need to, my confusion is just regarding the timing and when I would do so.
Thanks!
On Feb 22 I sold 3 contracts for a March 18 720 put for a premium of 14.9. (I only collected $4,262 though, $208 less than I thought I would - is this due to fees?).
Anyway as we all know yesterday the stock dropped very quickly below 720 and all the way to 699 before popping back up.
I called my broker to ask if I was assigned and he said I wasn't. Can someone tell me how that works? I figured as soon as my put got in the money, somebody would pick it up and I would have to purchase shares.
Is this (assignment to purchase the shares) something that would only happen at expiration?
Can you only get assigned if your put expires in the money? So anytime before expiration you still have a chance to roll it, etc.?
And does it make sense to open more CSP positions in the meantime?
- For instance this was my first CSP so I set it to a standard 1mo expiration
- But if I am able to monitor more closely and see upside in shorter timelines, would it make sense to put on more positions?
- For example, the March 11 680 is 7.85, so why not add 3 more contracts at a lower strike
I do have an understanding of how to roll the put if I need to, my confusion is just regarding the timing and when I would do so.
Thanks!
thanks
this is amazing backtesting... i guess data applies to covered calls, as well
i am so tempted to copy it and then maybe add another column 14 DTE (aside from the current 7 DTE)
perhaps some genius should automate this into a website for the benefit of this thread (daily refresh like maxpain)
Pretty simple math and yeah can be applied to anything. Its just percent change day to day and week to week. Good idea on maxpain addition etc...
Strongly advise against selling any more options until you understand the dynamics. Also, don’t use margin and realize you’re actually risking $68,000 with every 680p contract you sell.
I’m curious, did you flinch yet? I sold cc805s yesterday and am still holding. I expected to buyback this AM but they were still underwater. Finally looked like it was going my way, about $1 profit, then boom, somebody put the hammer down. I guess it’s down to the wire.
Edit: The MMs just got back from lunch and wow, they punched the SP down to $798 fast.
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Very novice actually. I make sure I won’t get margin called and turn off the screen so I won’t let my emotions make the trade.
I live another week.
BTC all BPS 70% gain just now. Lucky enough to take gains in a week of terrible events.
Hope to open more BPS next week on a down day. Sell into strength. The big question for me is if I should get more greedy as we get lower and lower each week. I did well like this with cash secured puts last spring/summer.
There had to be a floor right?
Assignment is random, and then only when someone decides to exercise early or the contract closes ITM after 4:30 Fridays.
No because there is still lots of time value still left. Example: I’m still holding -c805s that close in 3.5 hrs and they are valued at $5-$6/sh even though the SP is almost exactly $805. Normally, nobody will exercise an option with that much time value left.
Spend lots and lots of time reading this ENTIRE thread, but especially watch the beginning videos. It takes weeks to learn the basics, months to get dangerous, and years to become an expert.
Perhaps, if you’re willing to accept assignment at that strike and interested in learning options. Selling cash-secured puts is a lower risk way to learn options. Pick a ridiculously low strike, say $600-$700 for next Friday, and sell one today and watch what happens. Get paid to learn as @adiggs says.
Good! Rolling is very important to learn. If selling 10x CSPs, you should be able to eventually safely clear $5/sh/wk with judicious strike choices AND, more importantly, timing those sales when the SP is down. Don’t chase the ticker. Wait for the mandatory morning dip (MMD), or the Thursday/Friday fade. Thursday is often called “Roll Thursday” because time values are much lower for the current week and much higher for the next week.
corduroy
Active Member
@john tanglewoo In addition to all of this great advice, I would add:
Start trading a single contract on a cheap $5-$10 stock. Purposely get assigned, then purposely have your shares get called away just so you can see the mechanics of it all. Then move up to the "big leagues" of TSLA. Learning options trading on TSLA is like playing a video game the first time on "insane" mode.
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Yeah, I rolled them to -c830's for next week (trying to be sensible here) for +$7 (BTC $9, STO $16)
Couldn't decide whether to roll to 800, 820, 825 or 830, especially with my natural inclination to be aggerssive
Very difficult with the volatility either side of $800 to do much else, especially not having a roll function, and of course the moment I closed the -c800's, around SP $805, it immediately tanked into the min $790's, but I was patient and waited a couple of hours to resell
After two big macro days, we're due a red, I think, but that could just be wishful thinking as I have $GOOGL -c2600 and $AAPL -c155 ITM for next week
What's most annoying is that I really felt yesterday pre-market was the bottom, I think I mentioned it up-thread, but I still sold calls... OK, they looked safe when I sold them, meh!!
today is a rare thin "doji" candlestick (open/close almost exactly the same)
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/Doji-d138b831e2f74fddafdd967b540b0ed2.jpg)
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Doji candlestick patterns - How to identify and trade them in IQ Option
Doji candlestick pattern is very easy to identify. When combining it with other indicators, Doji will give you reliable entry points in IQ Option
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What Is a Doji Candle Pattern, and What Does It Tell You?
A doji is a trading session where a security’s open and close prices are virtually equal. It can be used by investors to identify price patterns.
Tes La Ferrari
Active Member
I have been contemplating selling some shares and converting to LEAPS, if we get another dip.
Though I own both shares and LEAPS, I am new to the converting process.
Any tips / not-advice on practical ways to do the conversion in the most efficient and beneficial way ?
I have thought about it before, but recurring nightmares of Elon immediately launching full robo-taxies, FSD, and leaked pictures of Optimus already in production and secretly building a stash of $25K Model 2 plaids - the second I sell; and the price running away from me right after I sell have kept me from selling. And because I will be doing this in a tax-free account, I cant use margin to buy first and then sell.
Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences on how best to do this.
Though I own both shares and LEAPS, I am new to the converting process.
Any tips / not-advice on practical ways to do the conversion in the most efficient and beneficial way ?
I have thought about it before, but recurring nightmares of Elon immediately launching full robo-taxies, FSD, and leaked pictures of Optimus already in production and secretly building a stash of $25K Model 2 plaids - the second I sell; and the price running away from me right after I sell have kept me from selling. And because I will be doing this in a tax-free account, I cant use margin to buy first and then sell.
Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences on how best to do this.
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