Sequestering carbon by land restoration and reforestation in Iceland

[Fred42]

Aww... glad to hear it was worthwhile if only for the entertainment value For me, I guess it was good for the cardio

You know, it's hard to declare any particular task as being the most efficient use of labour or money, with any degree of confidence; each is useful in their own way. The sheep always "can" cross (well, when they're out... obviously, after the roundup, they won't be back until maybe next May or so). The roundup just makes them more likely to. So it's a question of rolling the dice... because if they get in, they can devastate things in a single day. Or, as in the case today**, not devastate... it all depends on how they're feeling.

** Technically they might have ripped up some areas I haven't visited yet... there's so much land that I can't check every single tree. But at least in the "likely damage areas" that I went to, it was surprisingly low, especially given how many invaded this time!+

Fertilizer falls into the same category... it won't do much this year... it'll mainly just get stored and used next year. Phosphorus in particular binds in deficient soils and becomes almost completely immobile (assuming you don't use it in excess; if it can't bind, it ends up getting into the waterways, which is why I hesitate to use more than a mild application at once)

The last use of funds in mind was fall tree purchases, which would need to overwinter. Still waiting to hear back offers on them (it's the weekend).

I think in short, I'll gather all my pricing and funding data up early next week (presumably), and let you all decide what sounds like the best use for it. My labour can be dedicated to any of them

Have you stricken from your list for further tree purchases the last place you bought from, where some suffered from grubs, worms and lack of water?

You have my proxy. You would know best.

 

[LN1_Casey]

I personally like the idea of the fence. Because it's a reoccurring problem. Even if, in the further future, the trees you have planted now are self seeding, the sheep would still come in and kill off the seedlings.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Either the fence or a border collie named Karen.

 

[jerry33]

I personally like the idea of the fence. Because it's a reoccurring problem. Even if, in the further future, the trees you have planted now are self seeding, the sheep would still come in and kill off the seedlings.

Raising wolves would help, although perhaps it wouldn't endear Karen to her neighbours.

 

[KarenRei]

Raising wolves would help, although perhaps it wouldn't endear Karen to her neighbours.

Haha, I was joking with some friends earlier about introducing wolves to control the sheep populatio, with the slogan "Gerum Úlfarsfell að Úlfafelli!" ("Make 'Wolf's Mountain' into 'Wolf Mountain' " - Úlfar is a person's name meaning "Wolves", and hence there's a mountain near Reykjavík named Úlfarsfell... but by tweaking the conjugation you can make it mean literal wolves )

Since there seems to be a consensus for fence work, I went ahead and bought half a kilometer of net (will probably require another 100-200 meters**) and 400m of barbed wire (will probably need twice that). That's all that would fit in my car. I'm yet to get the posts that I'll need... supposed to be every 3,5m, but I can always start sparse and then densify. I haven't gotten the bill yet, but I expect that what I just bought will cost 5x10200 + 2x6800 = 64600 ISK = $510 (ED: It's 63593 ISK, just got the bill; that's $502). The remainder would be $188. 650m of posts at 400kr/stk (I think!) at 3,5m would be $586 (half that at half density). Possible need for more bags of cement ($8 each I think... maybe cheaper if I shop around) in difficult areas.

Hmm, let's go to Paypal. I've been spending on my credit card so that Paypal reflects total donations.

$3658.

Now to subtract expenditures thusfar...

• Trees from Kjarr: $690
• Clover: $405+$310
• Fence repair materials: $148+$38
• Trees from Flóra: $615
• Nematodes: $54
• Soil: $37
• New fencing thusfar: $502

Total: $2799.
Remainder: $859.

Hey, I think that might just about finish up the fence! No fall tree purchase or fert probably, but if I'm doing the fence I probably won't have time for fert before winter sets in... and I've already got a fair number of trees awaiting planting in future growing seasons. E.g., I tend to agree that the fence is the top priority

I'll still take some soil samples for nutrient testing as soon as I get the chance. I haven't done that since I last applied fertilizer. Also still need to pick up some imidacloprid. Oh, dang, I should have done that while I was out...


** - The fencing plan is to cut off the big bend in the river... leave that exclusively for spruce, big trees, and anything otherwise sheep resistant... in order to save on fencing. E.g. to take a more linear route across the land. I'll also probably leave the river bank on the sheep side to make it easier to walk along beside the river; I wouldn't plant anything small near that river anyway. My main concerns are the talus-rich areas, both those exposed and those that are covered with only a relatively thin layer of soil. Hmm... maybe on the east (inland) side I should start the fencing on the top of the slope, where the soil is deeper and easier, since the slope is predominantly planted with spruce, and to a lesser extent other conifers.

 

[KarenRei]

Proposed fencing route and logic (fencing brown, oaks green):

The land on the top is about half a kilometer wide.

So, the fences on the east and west side already exist. Both extend a little ways down the river - the fence on the west side extends further along the river than the fence on the east side.

On the east side, I could start to run along the river, but I have concern about all of the minimally-buried talus down there. It'd at the very least force me right next to the river in many places, I'd think. And even if I make it all the way across, I'd run up against the cliffs on the west side (which, remember, extend up all the way past that oak - it's down a bit of a ledge itself). I'd have to go up, but I think that all routes over there are rather talus-y (although the greener areas might be deeper). So I was thinking maybe I should just do the upper slope. If I'm higher up, and I hit an area that's too rocky, I can always just retreat to the north.

Once we get past the cliffs, I dip a bit down to maximize the sheltered area, but not so much as to greatly extend the fence length. I aim for the base of the landslide scar - as the landslide debris at the bottom is such a jumbled mess. I assume that I should be able to hammer poles into that exposed glacial debris reasonably well (it'll be wet, but the poles are treated).

After that I'd have to stay fairly near the river (possibly further than I illustrated) because there's a good bit of buried talus downhill of the the serious-landslide-risk zone and up to the ravine.

After the ravine, it gets marshy. I could go up here. But I don't think I have to - at least, I don't think that the need is as compelling as in the east. Rather, I was thinking about just paralleling the river here - as far uphill as I could so as to make it easier to walk along the river, but not so far uphill as to be trying to hammer into talus. I think I should be able to make it all the way unhindered to connect with the existing fencing on the west side.

I was thinking about making several "gates", which would be parallel poles, spaced close enough together that a human could slip through sideways, but sheep (these sheep are fat ) couldn't. As a precaution I was thinking about putting fencing along the bottom half of the gap, only leaving it open near the top, so you'd have to step over said bottom fencing to get through. I mean, I could always go more elaborate and build ladders over the fence, but I think this would suffice.

Thoughts?

 

[LN1_Casey]

Thoughts?

I like the idea of the simpler fence, since it'll save you time and energy. And won't get necessarily flooded by the river.

On the gate idea; I'd just be worried that some sheep would slip through, then get stuck. IDK. I'm not a sheep farmer, so I'm only conjecturing.

Also; clear out that paypal! No use for you to gather the interest on your credit card. If you want to keep a tally, you can take out increments than all at once. $3.5k, or something. Don't want you to be getting unnecessary fees!

 

[KarenRei]

I like the idea of the simpler fence, since it'll save you time and energy. And won't get necessarily flooded by the river.

On the gate idea; I'd just be worried that some sheep would slip through, then get stuck. IDK. I'm not a sheep farmer, so I'm only conjecturing.

Also; clear out that paypal! No use for you to gather the interest on your credit card. If you want to keep a tally, you can take out increments than all at once. $3.5k, or something. Don't want you to be getting unnecessary fees!

I have money set aside for my house (whenever I can actually afford it and whenever all of the documents are filed so I can begin work), which I've been slowly saving up... so all that leaving the forestry money in Paypal does is that I instead spend from the house savings to pay off my credit cards. But the total remains the same. Don't worry, I'm not paying credit card interest It's just easier to leave everything in Paypal for now and just make credit card purchases rather than have to constantly transfer money out.

That said... I should look into what fees maybe associated with transfers, since while I'm not paying interest on what I spend on my credit cards, it also means I'm not earning interest (at a very low rate) with said house money, and Paypal doesn't pay interest.

 

[winfield100]

Proposed fencing route and logic (fencing brown, oaks green):

View attachment 449472

The land on the top is about half a kilometer wide.

So, the fences on the east and west side already exist. Both extend a little ways down the river - the fence on the west side extends further along the river than the fence on the east side.

On the east side, I could start to run along the river, but I have concern about all of the minimally-buried talus down there. It'd at the very least force me right next to the river in many places, I'd think. And even if I make it all the way across, I'd run up against the cliffs on the west side (which, remember, extend up all the way past that oak - it's down a bit of a ledge itself). I'd have to go up, but I think that all routes over there are rather talus-y (although the greener areas might be deeper). So I was thinking maybe I should just do the upper slope. If I'm higher up, and I hit an area that's too rocky, I can always just retreat to the north.

Once we get past the cliffs, I dip a bit down to maximize the sheltered area, but not so much as to greatly extend the fence length. I aim for the base of the landslide scar - as the landslide debris at the bottom is such a jumbled mess. I assume that I should be able to hammer poles into that exposed glacial debris reasonably well (it'll be wet, but the poles are treated).

After that I'd have to stay fairly near the river (possibly further than I illustrated) because there's a good bit of buried talus downhill of the the serious-landslide-risk zone and up to the ravine.

After the ravine, it gets marshy. I could go up here. But I don't think I have to - at least, I don't think that the need is as compelling as in the east. Rather, I was thinking about just paralleling the river here - as far uphill as I could so as to make it easier to walk along the river, but not so far uphill as to be trying to hammer into talus. I think I should be able to make it all the way unhindered to connect with the existing fencing on the west side.

I was thinking about making several "gates", which would be parallel poles, spaced close enough together that a human could slip through sideways, but sheep (these sheep are fat ) couldn't. As a precaution I was thinking about putting fencing along the bottom half of the gap, only leaving it open near the top, so you'd have to step over said bottom fencing to get through. I mean, I could always go more elaborate and build ladders over the fence, but I think this would suffice.

Thoughts?

We would make gates using barbed wire. (It’s been 60 years so memory hazy)
1 post was fixed, 1 moveable
Moveable one went in a small stirrup/hoop/loop at ground level
Top end we stretched a bit and dropped a loop over the post the barbed wire was nailed to
It was pretty tight and had 4-6 strands but kept angus cattle in
(Maybe you could tag a few sheep with “invisible fence” collars to keep the flock off the “unpleasant” land) with permission
If a few always get spooked when they go to “Karen’s place” since they are herd animals perhaps go elsewhere
(Non lethal obviously)
You asked for random thoughts

 

[KarenRei]

We would make gates using barbed wire. (It’s been 60 years so memory hazy)
1 post was fixed, 1 moveable
Moveable one went in a small stirrup/hoop/loop at ground level
Top end we stretched a bit and dropped a loop over the post the barbed wire was nailed to
It was pretty tight and had 4-6 strands but kept angus cattle in
(Maybe you could tag a few sheep with “invisible fence” collars to keep the flock off the “unpleasant” land) with permission
If a few always get spooked when they go to “Karen’s place” since they are herd animals perhaps go elsewhere
(Non lethal obviously)
You asked for random thoughts

Well appreciated! Poles into loops might be a good option to balance "ease of entry" with "effective at keeping sheep out. I think I'll do that

 

[Frank Einstein]

Thoughts?

I'm sure you know your land and the optimal fence route far better than we possibly could.

Is there some sort of archaic law that the fence might become the de facto border of your land - could that lead to a dispute with your neighbour one day regarding where the border of your plot is? I know that in parts of Europe fences put up generations ago with an oral agreement between neighbours have been the cause of countless disputes down the line. Do you need trees right down at the river to stabilise the bank and would that mean you'd need to extend the fence, or can you put in some trees there that sheep don't like?

Maybe you can buy tiger urine on ebay and spray that on trees/gates to scare off the sheep.

 

[Feathermerchan]

This may help in building your fence.

Gate using wire and posts. We used to call this a gap as opposed to an actual one piece gate.

Wish I were there to help. Are there still cheap flights to Iceland?

 

[KarenRei]

Is there some sort of archaic law that the fence might become the de facto border of your land - could that lead to a dispute with your neighbour one day regarding where the border of your plot is?

The borders are defined by GPS coordinates... but without a lack of a clear fence, sure, disputes could arise. I do want to eventually get at least a wire running along the proper boundaries to mark things off better.

Do you need trees right down at the river to stabilise the bank

That'd certainly be useful (goal: wash as little of my land out to sea as possible! ), but remember, that river can flood. I'll need to make sure that anything that I plant down there can take it.

and would that mean you'd need to extend the fence, or can you put in some trees there that sheep don't like?

I'd think that for flood resistance, any tree would have to go in large enough already as to be resistant to sheep.

This may help in building your fence.

Gate using wire and posts. We used to call this a gap as opposed to an actual one piece gate.

Wish I were there to help. Are there still cheap flights to Iceland?

Heh, I don't know (WOW went under earlier in the year), although any help would be greatly appreciated! I'll warn you that I don't have the sort of nice kit that the farmers in that first video have, and the ground and terrain are way more hostile. That barbed wire roller was kind of neat (it's always awkward carrying barbed wire spools), although I have a feeling it'd snag pretty often, given my terrain. The idea of alternating strong posts and "weak posts just sufficient to help keep the fence vertical" is probably a good idea if Lífland has variety of posts (I plan to talk to them in person tomorrow).

I'll also want to track down a wire stretcher - the neighbor has one I could borrow, but I really should own my own (I can stretch wire with wire-cutting pliers, but it's not good for the wire). And a tool like they were using for the smaller posts might be useful... though I'm not sure if it could strike as hard as a sledgehammer, and you really need a lot of force to get posts into the ground around here. It'd be nice to have something to protect the posts at least when I'm striking with the sledgehammer, because after enough blows, the tops start to splinter.

Looks like that "gap" is similar to what winfield100 was describing above. Looks like a good design. I should probably make sure that they're wide enough for a truck or at least an ATV to drive through in the future, and position them at the optimal paths for getting down to the river.

So, I went to H. Hauksson (said to be the cheapest place around for fencing material), where I got the aforementioned fencing:

I'm on call, so as much as I wanted to, I couldn't even at least get the fencing material to the bottom of the canyon (climbing out would mean I couldn't make it back to work within the response time). I had to stay by the road, so I lugged the (heavy) fence rolls and barbed wire over the fence at periodic intervals along my land.

4 rolls and one barbed wire left. I feel bad that this is all I'll be able to do here today... hardly even seems worth the trip, except for the fact that I have to empty the car in order to be able to get fence posts into it!

I start getting lazy and just rolling the (really heavy) fence rolls down the slope from the road.

Last one in... and that's done :Þ

So then what? Well.... I was remembering that I had mentioned introducing wolves at "Wolf's Mountain" (Úlfarsfell), and as I was driving past, I was admiring the small forest at its foot... so I decided to stop by, as it'd be an excuse to take some more pictures, and it was close enough to town that I could actually walk a few minutes away from my car

The cones on the lodgepole pines near the entrance are opening. Easy way to tell pines from other conifers: the needles come out of the stem in clusters.

Into a sitka spruce grove. Depending on soil moisture, Icelandic forest floors usually have either a "mossy fairyland" look or a "rooty barrens" look. This grove is the latter. Sheep would have no interest being in here whatsoever

It's easy to see how these roots have crazy-good ground anchoring ability, snaking in and out, up to and out of the surface, intertwined with each other. It'd be hard to engineer a ground anchoring system this good.

Sitka spruce bark. Some were exuding resin, which historically has been used as a natural caulk / waterproofing agent and for treating wounds.

 

[jerry33]

It'd be nice to have something to protect the posts at least when I'm striking with the sledgehammer, because after enough blows, the tops start to splinter.

The poor man's way would be to get some thin sheet metal (but not so thin that it will deform) that could be wrapped around the post and a couple of hose clamps to keep the sheet metal very tight against the post so that that it won't splinter.

 

[KarenRei]

Sitka spruce branches. Unlike firs, spruce have rather squared needles. New branch tips are sometimes used to make spruce beer.

The spruce are seeding themselves nicely It's quite a healthy forest.

Larch (not sure which species... I think Russian larch rather than tamarack). Only minimal signs of fall colour change; they'll go fully yellow when it's time (larch are really pretty in the autumn)

More pines (lodgepole, I think). The name is a reference to their straight, minimally-tapering trunk, which made them good lodge poles.

Blue spruce flourish in the partial shade at the edge of clearings. Such pretty trees.

I especially love the bark.

Square needles = spruce. They grow out of little stalks that remain after the needles are lost.

I find a lovely redcurrant. But as much as I'd love to eat it, it's the only one left, and my sustainable harvesting rules consequently prohibit me from taking it.

Mountain pine. Most Pinus mugo are dwarfs, but in Iceland we generally grow the uncinata subspecies, which can get up to 20m tall.

Buds and young cones (not present here) are sometimes harvested to make pine syrup.

 

[KarenRei]

The bark has this relatively flat, light-coloured bark that combines with the branch growth pattern to give them a somewhat "windswept" look, even when they're not.

Cottonwoods tower above. Black cottonwood is the fastest-growing tree species in Iceland. They grow readily from cuttings, so I plan to go big on cuttings next year; I want to try planting them straight in (moist) ground rather than trying to root them first in pots and then transplant them.

Rowans growing in surprisingly shady places - as the info I found on the net says that they can. I have no clue why the planting instructions insisted on sunny locations.

Indeed, these are even fruiting in their partial-shade locations.

We get into an area with a more "fairyland" forest floor. Later in the fall it'll be rich in mushrooms, although I haven't come across any yet of note.

Finally, my first mushroom! A little puffball. They don't have much flavour, but rather take on the flavour of whatever you cook them in.

This one has however already been half eaten.

 

[Feathermerchan]

We use a lot of steel fence posts here. Called T-posts

Here is a selection and a driver. Easier to set than wood. Just driven into the ground.
Everbilt Metal Fence Posts – Building Materials – The Home Depot

Those fencing pliers are very handy. The hammer side is used for driving staples into wood posts like in the vireo. Won't drive a post.

 

[KarenRei]

I continue through the fairyland-floor area until I get to a clearing.

With sun more abundant, birch grows.

A number of mushrooms (all the same species) are present on the forest floor, but almost all have been stepped on / kicked over (this forest gets a lot more foot traffic than my usual place, Heiðmörk, which is much larger). That said, one is upright.

They're agarics, but I don't know the species, and I don't have my mushroom ID book. No mushroom should be harvested by guesswork, but especially not agarics! That's a pass. But nice to see them!

Hey, a little white spruce! I was just planting you guys!

I start nearing the car, passing some young cottonwoods, in the sun that they love.

Back near the parking lot, some sitka spruce, next to a fence for a size comparison. As big as they are, these trees will just keep on growing and growing, so long as they find new places to stick their roots - as noted earlier, some in Iceland are already nearing 30 meters tall. And their growth rate will only rise as the climate warms.

-----

So, tomorrow: fence posts and imidacloprid! Might sneak in planting the couple trees that I saved for my friend if she's free; I know she's really been looking forward to it

 

[KarenRei]

Had to rush back to work so I didn't get to load up anything (or buy Imidacloprid) - although I may duck out at lunch - but I did stop by Lífland to discuss the fence with them.

The (proper sized) posts were 500kr ($3,92) each, not 400kr like I was thinking. They also had some steel posts, which are 2000kr, for driving into really rocky soil (while I plan to avoid it as much as possible, it may be not realistic to avoid in some places). It's supposed to be 250 posts for a kilometer according to Lífland (1 post per 4 meters), so I decided to start with 150, and have them be 140 wooden poles, 10 steel poles. I also added a net stretching tool (rather expensive - 14k ISK / $110 USD :Þ if I remember right) and 25 net clips for connecting together pieces of fence, at 350kr ($2,75) each (although I realized that I miscalculated and it should have been 35... although I can always get more, and they're not strictly necessary). I haven't paid yet, as you do that at pickup, so I don't have the exact breakdown.

An issue arose with what they referred to as hornstaurar / corner posts. They said that you should use these (they're especially large posts) at least once every 300 meters, along with special anchors, in order to stop the fence from slowly leaning to one side or another (I know what they're talking about - it's more than 300 meters between them on the west side of my land, and my fence does do such a lean... albeit it still works fine as a fence). They were at a loss as to how to hammer in such a post by hand with a sledgehammer, as to whether it would be possible (they're larger than the regular posts and cost four times as much). Their anchoring system that they sell is primitive, too. I've read a lot about duckbill anchors:

You hammer them in with a special tool, and then since they're on a pivot, when you try to pull them out, they lock into place. These that Lífland sells however are just a flat sheet of metal with a rod welded perpendicular to them. They don't rotate, so you can't just drive them in - you have to dig all the way down. Which through my rocky ground is a rather laughable concept, to be honest. Although even duckbills are said to be difficult in rocky ground. They also said that some people attach wires to buried rocks, although this also means digging holes to bury said rocks.

I think my best option for "hornstaurar" might be concreting the occasional post, along with diagonals to help reinforce it upright, potentially also concreted, ideally in ground with some buried rocks that they'd get concreted to and act as anchors. But I'm more than open for other ideas! On the higher ground (e.g. the eastern / inland side) it might be possible to get the neighbor to drive some larger posts in with his tractor... if he ever remembers and makes the time for it. I hate to pester...

Also: 150 posts is surely going to take a lot of trips in my car, and at the moment I don't have anything to tow my trailer. That said, it's not like I'd be able to drive in all 150 in a single session out there, so...

 

[Feathermerchan]

I wonder if a screw anchor would work in your rocky soil.It might be a lot of work,
ShelterLogic 30 in. Earth Anchor Set (4-Piece) w/ Heavy-Duty, Corrosion-Resistant Steel Construction and Spinnable Corkscrew Design-10075 - The Home Depot

I'd look for alternatives to concrete if possible. It is heavy and requires water and mixing. Then you can't use the post until the concrete has set. That driven anchor sounds best. Corner posts and periodic larger posts to fight lean is a good idea and probably required for long fence life..