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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

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Earlier, someone had suggested that an M3 chassis was cloaked in an MS. If the wheel based matched, testing could be happening in the open.
Even if it didn't match they could since there is no moving component between the wheel base, just the pack. All suspension and drive components could be mounted to Model S's, which would be great for stress testing since the S is a heavier vehicle.
 
Is anyone concerned with the apparent "compression" in the production prototype road testing timeline? What's the normal time allowed for road testing -- 1+ years ?
Tesla's projected schedule appears to only allow for 3 - 6 months.
Thoughts?

As someone mentioned here already, developing an EV Tesla can do much more testing test-track driving inhouse than would be possible with an ICE. Tesla has very good reasons to be very secretive and not show Model-3's driving around. That will be all over the news hyping the car. Nice for the short term SP on first glance, but it is probably much more important to keep a bit low profile in order not to have customers to delay buying MS/ MX and go for an Model-3 instead of an S60. Note that also Model-3 reveal part-2 was not that high profile.

About 4 months ago (that is just after 'pencils down' ) news came out that Tesla ordered parts to build 300 prototypes, you can be sure Tesla is puting a good number of these parts to good use already.
 
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Anyone want to place bets on valueEV being spiegel, Montana skseptic or bosshogghazard? I'm moving past even bothering to read his posts as they are all inheirantly flawed logic but Im game to speculate identity for fun.
Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

The ignore button is your friend. I have no idea what he's posting these days.
 
Anyone want to place bets on valueEV being spiegel, Montana skseptic or bosshogghazard? I'm moving past even bothering to read his posts as they are all inheirantly flawed logic but Im game to speculate identity for fun.

Sorry, I have no data from which to comment, for reasons which OGM will not allow me to specify.
 
The goal is the machine to build the machine. To me that means that you forego using heavy manual labor to get a few thousands of units out and just buckle down and get the automation right instead. That way you can scale faster.

The goal is to build cars!


Interesting talk from George Hotz on the self driving tech. He talks about the industry leaders (including tesla) around the 18:00 mark.
Very interesting, Thanks for posting that.

His opinion 3 leaders, Google great technology but business plan. Uber won't make money until they have vehicles on the road, can they afford to keep spending money? And Tesla.
Is there any reason for anyone to really not feel confident in a mid 2017 start date? Or is it just because previous product delays?

You really should read the transcript or listen to the CC.
Musk asked rhetorically if the M3 would be produced by the July date, and answered "of course not".
 
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Anyone want to place bets on valueEV being spiegel, Montana skseptic or bosshogghazard? I'm moving past even bothering to read his posts as they are all inheirantly flawed logic but Im game to speculate identity for fun.

Not Montana Skeptic, different style and he seems very paranoid about hiding his identity. He would be to afraid his identity would leak, so I assume he is only a reader or keeps very quiet on this thread.

He confirmed to me that is reading here quite actively. Obviously he uses what he learns here against Tesla to bring forward his own agenda. I would be most surprised if he is not being paid for his services, he simply spends to much time spreading misinformation about Tesla.

Could actually get interesting once the court case against the financial guy statts (Todd Katz), who tried to steal financial information, as the court documents refered to 10 other John Doe's. I am betting some good Belgium beers that Montana Sketic was at least in contact with him, and might even be one of these 10.
 
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Anyone want to place bets on valueEV being spiegel, Montana skseptic or bosshogghazard? I'm moving past even bothering to read his posts as they are all inheirantly flawed logic but Im game to speculate identity for fun.
Regardless of who they are, I hope they back up their beliefs by shorting Tesla with every dime at their disposal.
 
Oh please.
What exactly is wrong with having a car that one ups Tesla in the market.

Trying to alter the direction of the conversation from the original point I made (and implying things that I never actually said or implied myself), and that you failed to counter with your purposeful obtuseness isn't a game I'm going to play with you. Go find someone else.
 
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Some, sure, although there are more Poles and Swedes. Regardless of nationality, they are however almost always paid as well as Norwegians.


That would reflect poorly on Norwegian workers skills.

About 15% of Norway's population is foreign born, about the same as US.

Most American immigrants were not born in Mexico either.

Country of origin for Norwegian immigrants #3 is Somalia,Pakistan is #5, and Iraq is #6 as of 2014.Immigration to Norway - Wikipedia

Once 2016 info is available(in English for me) I pretty sure Syria will be top 5.

From 2014. Immigrants’ income varies widely

"Immigrants with the lowest media incomes came from Iraq (NOK 195,600), Afghanistan (NOK 192,800), Eritrea (NOK 183,200) and Somalia. Somalians collectively earned just 50 percent of the median income in Norway, or NOK 163,800."
 
Anyone want to place bets on valueEV being spiegel, Montana skseptic or bosshogghazard? I'm moving past even bothering to read his posts as they are all inheirantly flawed logic but Im game to speculate identity for fun.

I've not heard of bosshogghazard so can't comment on that. The poster is not Mr. Spiegel. There's not a chance he could maintain the façade of ValueEV's persona. I'd have to actually start reading Montana Skeptics articles and comments again to comment on if there is similarities in writing and personality style. I've not yet come across anyone who can maintain a fake persona or multiple personas for an extended period of time on the Internet. So unless we're dealing with a professional fiction writer, or a real live split personality disorder where more than one personality has a hated of all things and people Tesla...
 
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That would reflect poorly on Norwegian workers skills.

About 15% of Norway's population is foreign born, about the same as US.

Most American immigrants were not born in Mexico either.

Country of origin for Norwegian immigrants #3 is Somalia,Pakistan is #5, and Iraq is #6 as of 2014.Immigration to Norway - Wikipedia

Once 2016 info is available(in English for me) I pretty sure Syria will be top 5.

From 2014. Immigrants’ income varies widely

"Immigrants with the lowest media incomes came from Iraq (NOK 195,600), Afghanistan (NOK 192,800), Eritrea (NOK 183,200) and Somalia. Somalians collectively earned just 50 percent of the median income in Norway, or NOK 163,800."
That's because they're not working full time. It is sadly too easy to just keep cashing welfare-checks.

But we're getting wildly off topic here.
 
That's reasoning by (bad) analogy again.

With an automated production line, it basically either runs full speed or not at all. If it's designed to run at that speed, they can get it up to that speed for a week once they've debugged it. It is, in actual fact, designed to run at that speed. The only ways it won't are:
(1) lots of bugs
(2) design failure
(3) non-automated sections of the line

Even #3 isn't critical if the non-automated sections can be taken off-line and parallelized, which is true for probably everything but wiring harnesses.
I guess by saying 5 times increase of production rate in 2 years I implied analogy. That's not my intent. My concern is basically two points:

1. This automated production line is not there, and don't know when it will come.
2. If if comes too late, Tesla may not have enough time in 2017 to fully test it and it might have the (1), (2), and (3) issues you listed here, preventing mass production in 2017.
 
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I included the higher labor cost per unit volume in my posts and pointed out that hurt the Model X GM before it finally reached volume in Q3.

As for the impact of the non-tooling portion of the capex on GM, I believe if you run some numbers you will find it is not significant if Tesla delivers 30K Model 3 in 2017, the figure everyone has been discussing. Let's assume 1/2 of the $1B in 4Q M3 capex is for non-tooling items that will therefore be depreciated straight line. The useful life of big machines like stamping presses has to be at least 10 years, but we will use that to be conservative. $500M/40=$12.5M per quarter of depreciation to be divided over the units produced. Let's further assume that 4K employee M3's are produced in Q3 and 26K customer M3's in Q4.

Q3 depreciation/unit= $3125
Q4 depreciation/unit = $481, or 1% GM impact on a $42K ASP

My conclusion is that if Tesla reaches 26K or 30K units in a quarter the depreciation of $.5B in non-tooling capex will not have a material impact on gross margins. However if they stay mired in a few thousand units per quarter for multiple quarters like happened with the Model X then that depreciation will have a significant impact on GM.
I think 500M for all the initial equipment and facility for M3 in 2017 is over underestimated. Aside from Fremont, Gigafactory needs investment and would need to be considered as well (IIRC, not only the battery but some parts of the drivetrain are also made there). This Q alone would incure more than 1B of capex for these items. And there will be 2-3 Qs more of capex (to what extent we don't know) before M3 production. Then add the cumulative investment on the GF, my guess on non-tooling equipment/facility in 2017 would be closer to 2B, with maybe 1.5B dedicated for M3. And that's assuming everything went very well, no additional capex to correct mistakes (like Model X, had an unexpected 400+M spending to get the production line right). So in your assumption in Q4 there would be about $1500 depreciation cost per unit. If they hired more workers initially to hope for higher production, then the labor cost would also be higher and eat into GM (like the case of Model X).
 
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Is anyone concerned with the apparent "compression" in the production prototype road testing timeline? What's the normal time allowed for road testing -- 1+ years ?

Tesla's projected schedule appears to only allow for 3 - 6 months.

Thoughts?

This video posted by @cwerdna a whiile ago is a good view. Shows what kind of testing GM cars go through before a concept car goes into production. And still, GM is not among the most reliable, best quality cars. For higher volume cars, need for more testing before production is even higher. Tesla should be doing more testing of Model 3 prototypes compared to what it did for Model X.

Ok, Today, noticed Joan Lunden put up the segment I was talking about on June 29, 2016.

It's at
. Skip to 1:01. I haven't watched this in ages. 0:30 to to ~1:25 may be worth watching, as well.
 
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