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Some new data from research on Tesla model 3 cells

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There has recently been released a series of new research reports containing tests on Tesla Model 3 Cells (Panasonic 2170 NCA).
This is the calendar aging test from one of them (25C, 15, 50 and 85% SOC. Checkup once a month):
Using the datapoints from these and putting them in the old charts I ususally post, these match the olds ones quite good. As there is only three points, it do not show the real form of the curve, but all three points match the usual graphs.
IMG_1736.jpeg


For the cyclic tests, they did use rather high currents, not really respresentative to normal EV use. (To the researchers defense, the currents used is sort of the most EV-battery manufacturers current in the specifications but still not close to the regulkar EV usage).
Charged with 0.33C which would match about a 25kW DC charger, or double to four times the usual rate EV owners use mostly. Probably not offsetting the result much, but to be clear this is how it was done.

Discharged with 1C, which would be 78kW, about enough to drive constant at 200kph. This is way above the average power used from a regular EV. Driving at higway speeds at 120kph/80mph or so, we normally use like 1/4 of that power.
The average car often has a average speed longterm of about 50-60kph, meaning we often use 1/8-1/4 of the power in these cyclic tests.
From other tests we can se that lower power reduce the wear, the degradation often reduces to somewhere down to 0.5-0.7C.

In this report the author was a bit surprised over the increased wear at 5-15% SOC and 15-25% SOC. I would say that it it a very high probability of that this is induced by the 1C discharge rate, and that our normal power rates used IRL would make this look different. This is nothing I can promise but from several other research tests we can see that there ususally is a tendency to slightly increase the cyclic degradation at the lowest SOC ranges.

According to this chart, the best cycling range is 55 % down to 35%( see note below about true SOC).

Note: These are “True SOC”. 0% in this chart is where the car already has stopped, and 5% in-chart is about 0% displayed and 55% in-chart is is about 57% displayed.
IMG_1735.jpeg



As I said above, there is a high probability that the low SOC range wear much less with a lower C-rate. Anyway, due to the high impact of calendar aging we most certainly benefit from staying low in SOC.

For the first two years, we would loose about 9-9.5% from calendar aging if staying at high SOC.
During these two years, if we drive 15-20K km annually (10-15Kmiles), and stay in the very low regime cycling (5-25% true SOC, thats 0-20% displayed SOC) we would loose about 1% from ~ 75-100 FCE cycles during these two years/30-40K km.

IRL its not possible to stay that low in SOC without actively stopping the charging, as 50% is the lowest setting (but for reference to low /high SOC).

To reach the same level of cyclic degradation from low SOC cycling according to the chart we would need about 700FCE, or about 280K km, but that is not really possible to do and at the same time stay at 5-25% SOC.

So, a car charged to 80-90%, and used as most EV’s is used, will mostly be above 55% SOC and have a calendar aging close to the 85% graph.
After two years, it will be around 10% degradation if the average cell temp is about 25C.

If the car was charged to 50-55% it would have a calendar aging around 6%, and the cyclic aging would be half the high SOC car, so more or less negligeble.

Link to one report

[Edit]For what its worth, if someone is worried about the low SOC below 20% (I am not, but I’m aware of the classic forum rumors), charging to 50-55% and charging for the daily drives at or above 20% (not talking longer traveling here) all aspect of this report if ticked-in-the-box.

I will not change any of my charging behavior because of this report. There is from time to time small differences in the reports and usually the reason for that can be found by thorougly comparing with other tests. We need much more than one report to state a “fact”.
 
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Interesting! I wonder if Tesla didn't update the trim and battery config for that car, so it's actually defined as being a different type of car so we're pulling the initial capacity for a different car. What does your vehicle define in the firmware inspector under vehicle_config > trim_badging and efficiency_package?

Out of curiosity, have you run the service mode battery health check? If so, what did it report?

@James@Tessie here's the info you requested:

"trim_badging": "50",
"efficiency_package": "Default",

I haven't done the service mode battery health check.
 
74 kWh / .310 kWh/mi = 239 miles, which is my 100% rated range. I would hope the 239 miles my S shows at 100% doesn't include miles below 0%.
For all 3/Y and all new S/X the range at 100% includes the buffer.
The EPA test includes driving up the whole batt from 100% until the car stops.
The cars display it the same way.

The car calculates the range with the whole battery including the buffer, but then the buffer is progressively hidden from 100% to 0% displayed.
Therefore the energy graph calc includes the whole battery capacity including the buffer.
 
"74 kWh * 75% charge / 310 wh/mi = 179 miles, which is what my BMS reports as my range at 75% charge". The BMS thinks I have 74 kWH based on the rated range. That's not a total. It's the usable capacity based on rated range. This is as straight forward as it gets.
I think if you go ahead and measure the energy in each rated mile (this is easy to do with the trip meter on a reasonably long discharge in a continuous drive without stopping without time spent in park), you'll find they don't contain 310Wh/mi. I don't know all the numbers for your vehicle, but you can figure it out for yourself if you want. You'll find they contain about 310Wh/mi * (100-x)%, where x is the buffer % (310Wh/mi is just what I'm taking as your constant for your vehicle - I have no idea what it actually is for your car). For older cars the buffer is not a % and is a fixed amount - might be the case for you.

As @AAKEE says, this explains your observation. It's all a different way of saying the same thing.
 
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For all 3/Y and all new S/X the range at 100% includes the buffer.
The EPA test includes driving up the whole batt from 100% until the car stops.
The cars display it the same way.

The car calculates the range with the whole battery including the buffer, but then the buffer is progressively hidden from 100% to 0% displayed.
Therefore the energy graph calc includes the whole battery capacity including the buffer.
Even though the EPA tests use full depletion doesn't mean Tesla uses that figure in the calculations. You say they do - do you have a link?

If that were true (74 kWh used being below 0% into buffer), the calculations at different SOC would not work out as they do. This doesn't appear to be progressive - at least on my car. For instance, the rated miles at 50% (119) is half of the rated miles at 100% (239). Are you suggesting a different progressive algorithm picks up below 50%?
 
I think if you go ahead and measure the energy in each rated mile (this is easy to do with the trip meter on a reasonably long discharge in a continuous drive without stopping without time spent in park), you'll find they don't contain 310Wh/mi. I don't know all the numbers for your vehicle, but you can figure it out for yourself if you want. You'll find they contain about 310Wh/mi * (100-x)%, where x is the buffer % (310Wh/mi is just what I'm taking as your constant for your vehicle - I have no idea what it actually is for your car). For older cars the buffer is not a % and is a fixed amount - might be the case for you.

As @AAKEE says, this explains your observation. It's all a different way of saying the same thing.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that at all and most users report this. I don't think using this figure while driving is an accurate way to measure energy usage. There is too much variation in power, fluctuating temperatures, switching between regen, auxiliary systems, etc. The BMS is doing quite a bit of guessing. I have on many occasions over the last 8 years parked the car, came back an hour later to find it was down 3-4%, likely because the BMS had a chance to take a reading whereas it had been estimating.

The most reliable way to measure energy is while charging. That's because conditions are much more consistent - temps, voltage, current, auxiliary load, etc. So I charged from 37% to 75% and added 28 kWh. 28 kWh / (.75 - .37) = 73.7 kWh. Another (29% to 74% added 33.5 kWh): 33.5 kWh / (.74 - .29) = 74.4 kWh. You can infer from these calculations that going below 0% would put the capacity above 74 kWh.
 
I charged from 37% to 75% and added 28 kWh. 28 kWh / (.75 - .37) = 73.7 kWh. Another (29% to 74% added 33.5 kWh): 33.5 kWh / (.74 - .29) = 74.4 kWh. You can infer from these calculations that going below 0% would put the capacity above 74 kWh.
Just remember that the kWh number on the screen is just the rated miles added times the constant. It does not represent the energy added to the vehicle. The BMS knows roughly what is added (actually it is dead reckoned) but it still does not display that to the user.

This can be verified by the trip meter too, or you can use a tool like SMT. They all will line up pretty well.

So these numbers you provide also provide confirmation that your pack including the buffer is probably about 74kWh. Usable is something like 70kWh depending on the buffer size in your car (I don’t know for your vehicle exactly what it is, but you can determine that, or trust the earlier article scaled to your degraded pack).

The jumps you speak of are just BMS adjustments based on real OCV pack measurements which correct the dead reckoning. Just the BMS having a normal one.
 
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These pictures are taken the same day.
(I have a lot like these, but for start)
Above energy screen, counts to 80.5kWh, and the nominal full pack is 80.6kwh.
The slight difference to nominal full pack is rounding errors in the calculation, mosttly the soc being rounded.
IMG_7192.jpeg

IMG_7191.jpeg


The battery is a Panna 82.1kWh.

Nominal full pack = 80.6
—> buffer should be 3.62kWh, its rounded but anyway show a zero in the end.
Usable 76.1 kWh.
( the app was rounding and adding a zero behind. Data sent to teslalogger was not roubded and had hundreds correctly shown.)

Math: nominal remaining - buffer = usable
. 79.7. - 3.6. = 76.1


The energy screen shows* 152x270/51 = 80.47kWh, still only 51% SOC.

So we clearly can see that the range calc uses the whole battery capacity.

*) capacity calc via:
Average x calculated range/ SOC
 
Even though the EPA tests use full depletion doesn't mean Tesla uses that figure in the calculations. You say they do - do you have a link?
The range shown at 100% in 3/Y and newer S/X is counting on the whole battery capacity.
You can easy check this via the energy graph.
If that were true (74 kWh used being below 0% into buffer), the calculations at different SOC would not work out as they do. This doesn't appear to be progressive - at least on my car. For instance, the rated miles at 50% (119) is half of the rated miles at 100% (239). Are you suggesting a different progressive algorithm picks up below 50%?
I havent dug into older S with fixed buffer size.
For the newer S/X and the 3/Y the buffer is ”created” by that the cars SOC counting has 4.5% of the total cap. Below zero which means each percent displayed SOC is 0.955 real percentage.

But this do not change the 81.8 vs 85.8 and that the 74kWh is the total capacity.
If you are to use 81.8 in your calc you also need to use the tesdie value without the buffer - which is 74-4 = 70kWh.

This discussion is taking the usual way.
Not wanting to realize the degradation is higher than what was thought, trying to find a way out of the inevitable, to realize.
I understand that it is not fun, but in the end we will end up there.
 
If that were true (74 kWh used being below 0% into buffer), the calculations at different SOC would not work out as they do. This doesn't appear to be progressive - at least on my car. For instance, the rated miles at 50% (119) is half of the rated miles at 100% (239). Are you suggesting a different progressive algorithm picks up below 50%?

It’s not progressive like that. It is essentially as @AAKEE explains, the buffer is progressively hidden. Each displayed rated mile is about 5% less energy (buffer may be fixed amount for your car which would mean a slightly varying %) than the 310Wh/mi you are quoting (taking your word for it - but for sure a 2016 P90D had 270 miles of EPA range, so that does roughly work out to 84kWh - 83.7kWh). When you use 50% of your miles then you use 239*0.5*310Wh/mi * 70kWh/74kWh = 35kWh. Using a lower value for the displayed mile energy content is equivalent to saying the buffer is progressively hidden, if you want to think about it that way. The straight calculation would say you have 239mi/2*310Wh/mi = 37kWh left but actually you have 39kWh, 35kWh which is usable. The end point is 0%, where it is all hidden, and you have ~4kWh left.)

This is just a rough calculation with placeholder numbers just to illustrate. But anyway if you have any doubt just meter it with the trip meter and report back. But I would expect a continuous trip from 100% to 50% in your car would yield 35kWh consumed, not 37kWh.
 
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Just remember that the kWh number on the screen is just the rated miles added times the constant. It does not represent the energy added to the vehicle.

This can be verified by the trip meter too, or you can use a tool like SMT.
The rate
This discussion is taking the usual way.
Not wanting to realize the degradation is higher than what was thought, trying to find a way out of the inevitable, to realize.
I understand that it is not fun, but in the end we will end up there.
Not at all. Please don't read something that's not there. I planned for 20% degradation when I purchased the car and I have 2 others newer ones. The OP was about calendar aging, but this has turned into reported capacity and range calculations.
 
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Here another couple of pictures, taken within 1 minute.
Just for fun, I took corresponding photos:
PXL_20240130_230230565.jpg

PXL_20240130_230237500.jpg


.307 kWh/mi x 176 miles / .72 = 75 kWh
If I changed display to rated miles, it says 170 miles.
.310 kWh/mi * 170 miles / .72 = 73 kWh

The difference might be due to rounding errors. 72% could be 71.5% or 72.4%. 170 miles could be 169.5 miles or 170.4 miles. There is uncertainty in these numbers and it's been a while since I've taken uncertainty analysis, but I believe you would add the uncertainties. So the uncertainty would be +-2 kWh.
 
Just for fun, I took corresponding photos: View attachment 1013754
View attachment 1013755

.307 kWh/mi x 176 miles / .72 = 75 kWh
If I changed display to rated miles, it says 170 miles.
.310 kWh/mi * 170 miles / .72 = 73 kWh

The difference might be due to rounding errors. 72% could be 71.5% or 72.4%. 170 miles could be 169.5 miles or 170.4 miles. There is uncertainty in these numbers and it's been a while since I've taken uncertainty analysis, but I believe you would add the uncertainties. So the uncertainty would be +-2 kWh.

Are you sure about that 310Wh/mi constant? It seems like it is more like 318Wh/mi. (176mi*307Wh/mi / 170mi).

You could try “driving to the line” (overlap the rated line exactly) and see what recent efficiency is when the two lines merge. Ideally with a smaller y-axis range, too, though it does not matter much. I’d expect it to overlap at 323Wh/mi not 318Wh/mi, but could be wrong.

Minor issue but good to get rid of unknowns.

Anyway, so you have about 74kWh-75kWh of pack (including the buffer).

This makes sense since you have around 236 rated miles at 100%, which is around 87% of your original 270 miles, which was something slightly north of 85.8kWh as covered in the articles above. (Not sure how to square the EPA results with the 90D of 84kWh which were slightly lower, but small difference.)

So something around 13% loss give or take a percent or so. Quite good.

Usable is around 70kWh.
 
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Are you sure about that 310Wh/mi constant? It seems like it is more like 318Wh/mi. (176mi*307Wh/mi / 170mi).

You could try “driving to the line” (overlap the rated line exactly) and see what recent efficiency is when the two lines merge. Ideally with a smaller y-axis range, too, though it does not matter much. I’d expect it to overlap at 323Wh/mi not 318Wh/mi, but could be wrong.

Minor issue but good to get rid of unknowns.

Anyway, so you have about 74kWh-75kWh of pack (including the buffer).

This makes sense since you have around 236 rated miles at 100%, which is around 87% of your original 270 miles, which was something slightly north of 85.8kWh as covered in the articles above. (Not sure how to square the EPA results with the 90D of 84kWh which were slightly lower, but small difference.)

So something around 13% loss give or take a percent or so. Quite good.

Usable is around 70kWh.
Thanks for the response. 310 is rated efficiency for the S P90D as determined when I got it in 2016. I've "driven over the line" hundreds of times over the last 8 years and it definitely crosses at 310.

I hooked up SMT and confirmed the 74 kWh (73.7 now) nominal and 4 kWh buffer. Gotta love all the different SOC variants.

Here it is:
Screenshot_20240130-195620.png


The idea that Tesla uses the buffer in range calculations is puzzling and a little bothersome. So if indicated range is 200 miles, that's not 200 miles to 0% it's 200 miles to 0% - the 4 kWh buffer (about 13 miles). So 200 miles would be about 185 miles if you drive at the rated efficiency :eek:.

I will say that Tesla's trip planner has been absolutely fantastic, so luckily I'm not depending on manual calculations for trips. Also my summer average efficiency is 290 wh/mi so I often exceed the planner's projections.

I've not hooked up SMT because I was afraid I might obsess over the numbers. I saw a max cell diff move between 12 mV and 14 mV so I'll probably be checking that now 🫤.

Back on the OT, it's clear that lower SOC is better for longevity, but I would hesitate to tell most people not to charge to 80% or call it a bad practice. Anti-EV sentiment is pretty strong in the U.S. and that's enough to turn many people away. One of the often touted advantages is leaving home everyday with a "full tank" with plenty of range for unexpected trips or emergencies. I know of two people close to me who were turned off by the fact that you could "only" charge to 80% most of the time and one that bought the LFP specifically so he could charge to 100%. OTOH I, like many others also want to take reasonable care of their vehicles and prevent unnecessary wear and tear. For most people, an approach they don't have to think or worry about much is best, and I think that's what Tesla has tried to do. For others like myself, I don't mind doing a little work (LOL I'm here posting), but find the extremes unacceptable.

Something that would help, and maybe it exists, is a chart showing what to expect after 5-10 years with different approaches. When I bought my S in 2016, I roughly hoped it would maintain 80% of its range for 10 years and it looks like it will. Maybe it looks like this:

Tesla Model 3 (Range New - 350 miles) Driven 15K miles per year
Avg. Temp 25C (based on where you live). Of course I totally made these numbers up.
ChargeRange at 5 years (miles)Range at 10 years (miles)
60%-80%290260
50%-70%300270
40%-60%310280
30%-50%320290

Other tables for other regions, etc.

I might find 300 miles at 5 years acceptable and plan to sell the car or I work from home and 50% of 320 will get me anywhere I care to go. This would allow people like the ones who read TMC to make informed decisions without getting into the nitty-gritty of battery science. And hopefully with the future generations of battery tech this won't matter at all.
 
There has recently been released a series of new research reports containing tests on Tesla Model 3 Cells (Panasonic 2170 NCA).

In this report the author was a bit surprised over the increased wear at 5-15% SOC and 15-25% SOC. I would say that it it a very high probability of that this is induced by the 1C discharge rate, and that our normal power rates used IRL would make this look different. This is nothing I can promise but from several other research tests we can see that there ususally is a tendency to slightly increase the cyclic degradation at the lowest SOC ranges.

According to this chart, the best cycling range is 55 % down to 35%( see note below about true SOC).

As I said above, there is a high probability that the low SOC range wear much less with a lower C-rate. Anyway, due to the high impact of calendar aging we most certainly benefit from staying low in SOC.

Link to one report

I looked at the abstract and found this part interesting.

The ageing processes involved are analysed using various in situ electrochemical characterisation techniques and post-mortem investigations. The strong SOC dependency is shown to be largely attributed to ageing of SiOxin mixed material electrodes
Later on:
As cycling proceeds the SiOx are completely lost in the low SOC case ... which can be seen as further indication that SiOx , which contributes to the capacity in low SOC, is being lost.
... which indicates that degradation due to LAMSiOx contributes disproportionately to ageing until a significant portion of SiOx is lost.
and in the conclusion:
The rapid degradation in low SOC could also be attributed to the influenceof SiOx , both in contribution to LLI due to formation of unstable SEI and due to LAMSiOx during cycling. The increase in degradation in high SOC windows could be attributed to increasing LAMNCA.
So it sounds like he developed a way to measure the activity of the silicon in the anode using hysteresis measurements and it was the primary culprit for the low SOC cycle degradation.

The batteries he focused on were mixed material anodes (Graphite/SiOx ). Older Tesla NCA batteries where graphite only.

  • How much of the degradation we're seeing is due to the silicon in the anode?
  • Should we expect to see rapid flattening of the degradation curve when most of the silicon becomes inactive?
  • Might this mean that graphite only anode NCA cells truly exhibit less degradation due to aging?
 
Thanks for the response. 310 is rated efficiency for the S P90D as determined when I got it in 2016. I've "driven over the line" hundreds of times over the last 8 years and it definitely crosses at 310.

Yeah. We know your pack has 73.7kWh and a full pack has about 236 miles. Maybe 239 max.
Anyway that gives 308Wh/mi to 312Wh/mi and so 310Wh/mi is probably correct.

However I’d expect the line to cross at 315Wh/mi but maybe that is just a Model 3 thing.

Seems slightly contradictory though. Your pictures of energy screen above (if taken concurrently) really don’t work out quite the way I would expect. The calculation does not work - it gives 74.5kWh minimum. Seems slightly too far off the 73.7kWh. Maybe it does not work quite right on older vehicles. Not a huge error though. Just seems like slightly more than can be explained by rounding.

Anyway no big deal. Glad you have the info now.
 
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I hooked up SMT and confirmed the 74 kWh (73.7 now) nominal and 4 kWh buffer. Gotta love all the different SOC variants.
This is good!
”SOC” should be the displayed SOC (but not rounded to whole numbers).
”SOC min” should be the true SOC, which relates to the trie SOC.
You could post a picture at low SOC also, than we can check how the BMS relation between true SOC and real SOC is.
Here it is:View attachment 1013818

The idea that Tesla uses the buffer in range calculations is puzzling and a little bothersome. So if indicated range is 200 miles, that's not 200 miles to 0% it's 200 miles to 0% - the 4 kWh buffer (about 13 miles). So 200 miles would be about 185 miles if you drive at the rated efficiency :eek:.
It might be used different in your car.
New S/X and all 3/Y use the buffer in the range at 100%. The energy screen could for example say [average 250wh/mi and calculated range 296 mi ] for a fully charged 74kWh (total capacity) battery.

If you start to drive, continuing to use 250Wh per mile the range until 0% will not be 296 miles. It will be 4.5% shorter, as 4.5% energy/SOC is hidden by reducing the dispayed SOC by 1% (in SOC numbers) by each 0.955 true SOC used.

At 100% both the true and displayed SOC is 100%.
IMG_7196.jpeg

Old picture but all relevant values are close with no other valus between.

SOC min is the true SOC.
SOC the displayed SOC.

We can calculate the true SOC:
[Nomimal remaining/ nomimal full pack]
57.9/80.0 = 72.375% (SMT did round but still showing the zero behind at that time, causing the slight apparent missmatch).

Displayed SOC = True SOC - (4.5 - 0.045 x True SOC)]
72.3- (4.5 - 0.045 x72.3) = 71.05%
The small difference of 0.02% SOC is rounding in the presented values in SMT.
Its confirmed several timea to match the formula.


For your car we would expect the displayed SOC to be much closer to the SOC min at 71.4% displayed SOC as True and displayed matches at 100%
The fixed 4% buffer must cause a variable percentage for the buffer proportion.
[Nomimal remaining/ nomimal full pack]
The true SOC should be (is) 53.8/73.7= 73.0%.
SOC expected is 73.0 in that pitcture but still we expect that SOC expected is something else = coupled to the fact that the car can not measure SOC when driving.

The buffer 4/73.7 = 5.4 % of the total capacity should match at 0% displayed and we would expect both to be 100% at a full charge.
I guess we need two pictures, one closer to 100% and one closer to 0%.

I will say that Tesla's trip planner has been absolutely fantastic, so luckily I'm not depending on manual calculations for trips. Also my summer average efficiency is 290 wh/mi so I often exceed the planner's projections.

I've not hooked up SMT because I was afraid I might obsess over the numbers. I saw a max cell diff move between 12 mV and 14 mV so I'll probably be checking that now 🫤.
I do not think 12mV is anything to worry about at all. Its in the normal range!
Back on the OT, it's clear that lower SOC is better for longevity, but I would hesitate to tell most people not to charge to 80% or call it a bad practice.
Absolutely! I agree totally.

I try to open many statements/posts with with “Just follow Teslas simple advices and you’re fine.”
Not really possible to add it in each and every post though.

I mostly posts info about charging practices when the forum myths about lithium batteries comes up.

Anti-EV sentiment is pretty strong in the U.S. and that's enough to turn many people away.
Same over here, but it is lessening.

Having battery myths that are long from the real world will not help, and also people thinking that they have very low degradation despite using 80-90% everyday and also believing that batteries will last forever will not help either.
I do absolutely not mean you but having many fanatic people, like in some Swedish Facebook groups will not help when cars start to have tired batteries in cars > 10 years.
The anti-EV people will get fuel to the (fossile ;) ) fire when they learn that. It probably will not matter that the cars are worn at the same time.
Something that would help, and maybe it exists, is a chart showing what to expect after 5-10 years with different approaches.

Yes. I saw a newer post from you as this post is written at separate times.
I’m little in a thight time schedule but I think we need to start with how much calendar aging cause in lost range and how much cyclic aging do, from what I briefly saw in the other post.

In general, the degradation will be about 50% less if we use low SOC (which means mostly having the battery below the central graphite peak). This is also real life values, not only from graphs in research (but they are valid as well).

I guess you have seen this graph. Its a good average to use from litterally hundreds of calendar aging tests.

Calendar aging will be ~ half below the step step at the central graphite peak.

Cyclic aging is also mostly lower at lower SOC but as cyclic aging is very small compared to cycles, this do not cause a big annual difference.

If you are a average tesla owner and charge to 80% daily, and set the car to charge when you arrive at home at dinner time will have the double calendar aging compated to a average Tesla owner that charge to 50-55% and set the car to charge to be finished just before the next days drive.
(The average owner do not use more than 25-30% a day, so charging to 80% have the end of the day SOC still close to 55% so the battery has most of the time above 55%).

IMG_4903.jpeg


Cyclic aging might be 0.5% a year for the annual driver, a bit depending… the low SOC strategy and the smaller cycles might also cut this in half.

When I bought my S in 2016, I roughly hoped it would maintain 80% of its range for 10 years and it looks like it will. Maybe it looks like this:

Tesla Model 3 (Range New - 350 miles) Driven 15K miles per year
Avg. Temp 25C (based on where you live). Of course I totally made these numbers up.
ChargeRange at 5 years (miles)Range at 10 years (miles)
60%-80%290260
50%-70%300270
40%-60%310280
30%-50%320290

I made my formulas in a excel doc initially to se how my M3P i was waiting for would degrade. It was spot on, and then tedted the formulas on many other cars.

I have a plan to eventually have the time to put them om a homepage so people can test for themself with different SOC etc.
(Would also include a lot of info about what is battery myths and what is real for lithium batteries.
Some day…
 
Correct. I owned a 3 RWD briefly and folks here were telling other owners to charging to 100% always which to me is bad advice.

Li-iron batteries have a different voltage curve and need to be charged to 100% for calibration BUT that doesn't mean owners should charge to 100% SoC and keep it there. I think Tesla's advice to "charge to 100% once per week" got misinterpreted to "charge to 100% all the time and it's fine if you keep it there also"
Going back to LFP for a second, if charging to 100% allows for cell balancing and other calibration, my question would be, is there any theoretical or empirical NEED to charge to 100%? Does it in any way HELP the LFP battery? Or should I just wait for my summer road trip to charge to 100% and calibrate once or twice a year before a big road trip? Based on the advice on this thread, I have been waiting until I get to 40% and then I charge to 60%. I don't ever drive below 10% where having a precisely calibrated battery could make or break my drive.

But I have seen people mention that cell balancing might be important for battery health or safety, and I've seen articles like this. Do the charts posted in this thread show any empirical support for the need to charge to 100%, and if so, is the Tesla recommendation of once a week for LFP batteries the correct interval? Or are there other reasons to charge to 100% that might not show up in these charts?
 
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Going back to LFP for a second, if charging to 100% allows for cell balancing and other calibration, my question would be, is there any theoretical or empirical NEED to charge to 100%? Does it in any way HELP the LFP battery? Or should I just wait for my summer road trip to charge to 100% and calibrate once or twice a year before a big road trip? Based on the advice on this thread, I have been waiting until I get to 40% and then I charge to 60%. I don't ever drive below 10% where having a precisely calibrated battery could make or break my drive.

But I have seen people mention that cell balancing might be important for battery health or safety, and I've seen articles like this. Do the charts posted in this thread show any empirical support for the need to charge to 100%, and if so, is the Tesla recommendation of once a week for LFP batteries the correct interval? Or are there other reasons to charge to 100% that might not show up in these charts?
If you look at an LFP voltage graph, you'll see that it's very flat. Because of this, the BMS can't accurately determine the SOC from the resting voltage through most SOC states, but it can determine when you reach 100% SOC, where the voltage rises steeply. After a 100% charge the BMS measures usage and estimates the SOC, but it can't accurately measure it at say 70% or 50%. So charging to 100% doesn't help the battery, it helps the BMS.