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SpaceX Internet Satellite Network: Starlink

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You need huge mirrors (really computer controlled arrays of large mirrors) to do cutting edge astronomy from the surface of our planet. In space you can do the same or better with much small mirror arrays.

Agree with the general point that the future of academic level astronomy is from space.

(***eventually)

However, as we're seeing with what many presume to be accessibility enablers for earth facing satellites (specifically, F9 being WAY cheaper than anything else for the past many years, and the promise of Starship being even cheaper), where the ramp up on the satellite side is actually much more conservative, we're not going to see some material increase (let alone a massive spike) in space-facing satellites anytime soon. Whereas at least earth pointed sats have some measurable value and thus someone willing to spend a buck on them, its going to be hard to convince anyone to make the big investment required to revolutionize space-pointed sats for the purpose of making humanity a little smarter. And launching obsolete, overpriced relics like Hubble and JWT won't help change many investors' minds...

Of course at the hobby level of astronomy, as @e-FTW implies, it will be forever (or at least, for decades) changed by the inevitable boom of LEO mega constellations led very much by Starlink.
 
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Could Mars be besterer?

Seems like both could end up with a dust problem? But mostly, for a very long time the thing would be built on Earth so the thing would explicitly have to be built to fit in a rocket and withstand a rocket launch. So at that point you might as well just make it a satellite...

There's certainly plenty of technical hurdles to get over with advanced space astronomy concepts--like aggregating untethered satellites flying in formation--but IMHO that's really the right place to focus limited resources.
 
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And launching obsolete, overpriced relics like Hubble and JWT won't help change many investors' minds...
Obviously there is room for improvement. Just like there was room for improvement in rockets.

I assume your use of the word “investors” refers to Congress approving funding, and is not a reference to private investors. Once Starship is flying and a large space telescope can be designed to optimize the enormous Starship payload capacity and volume, the cost of the telescope should be able to be reduced significantly. Combined with dramatically reduced cost to orbit, the amount of money NASA will be requesting from Congress will drop by an order of magnitude or more, I suspect.
 
I would say not. There is a massive additional cost to landing a large telescope on the Moon and making it functional there. By placing a large telescope in space you avoid all that cost.
Mostly agree. In the future what we might see are radio telescopes on the far side of the moon. The Earth has already become excessively loud with radio noise. The Moon could provide an excellent barrier to those signals emanating from Earth.
The main issue for lunar light gathering telescopes are the extreme night and day temperature differences. The moon also experiences frequent, sometimes strong, "Moonquakes". Another thought is that the combination of a low gravitational field and lack of atmosphere, micrometeorites or even a small plume of dust could have an impact on these telescopes.
 
I assume your use of the word “investors” refers to Congress approving funding, and is not a reference to private investors.

It was purposely meant to abstract the source, but yes, I'm generally referring to public funding (and certainly for the near and mid-term).

Once Starship is flying and a large space telescope can be designed to optimize the enormous Starship payload capacity and volume, the cost of the telescope should be able to be reduced significantly. Combined with dramatically reduced cost to orbit, the amount of money NASA will be requesting from Congress will drop by an order of magnitude or more, I suspect.

Unfortunately not anytime soon, and no way space science drops by anywhere close to order of magnitude...probably ever. We're barely seeing an order of magnitude with Starlink vs incumbents, and that's the pointy end singularity that is SpaceX creating a very-for-profit solution. Other thoughts:
--Optics costs are unfavorably proportional to increasing size (as opposed to, say, comms payloads which are favorably proportional). Thats why, as you note above, aggregating smaller gizmos is ultimately a better path than building bigger gizmos.
--The Man simply doesn't have the capacity to figure out how to appropriately develop and fund a science program in a way that materially challenges the very established financial history. Any such undertaking needs an uncommonly disruptive visionary AND a space that provides material value when disrupted. Such a person will basically never exist in public office, and science is way down on prime targets for disruption...
--There are very few entities that can actually invent and build something to the exacting standards required for such a science gizmo--they have all the leverage and zero incentive to do any major favors on future builds. Why sell A Better Thing at half the price (on a years or decades more expensive dollar, no less) when The Worse Thing you sold last time brought in twice as many bags of money? And...we need to remember that science infrastructure is very much NOT analogous to Starlink, where SpaceX mostly just leveraged existing technology and established production concepts in an industry where the incumbents have been historically reluctant to consider terrestrial tech and prod.
--Honestly, launch cost is a red herring. As I've been saying for years here regarding F9 (and as history of the last few years has shown), its really not a major factor driving the payload side of the industry. This can't be overstated: In the space industry, SpaceX is all but a singularity regarding core philosophy and approach to creating solutions. Not unlike the auto industry vs Tesla, everyone else is at best lagging by years or even a decade. Anything at the public funded level is even worse.
 
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As I've been saying for years here regarding F9 (and as history of the last few years has shown), its really not a major factor driving the payload side of the industry. This can't be overstated: In the space industry, SpaceX is all but a singularity regarding core philosophy and approach to creating solutions. Not unlike the auto industry vs Tesla, everyone else is at best lagging by years or even a decade. Anything at the public funded level is even worse.
Well, if SpaceX is an aerospace “singularity”, and Tesla is an automotive “singularity”, then I think it’s possible that the international astronomy community, when faced with increasing challenges for Earth-bound observational astronomy, might be able to create an astronomical “singularity” in the design and construction of a new generation of much lower cost space telescopes that take advantage of the Starship fairing volume and much lower launch cost. Astronomers are a pretty resourceful bunch of astonishingly bright people...
 
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Obviously there is room for improvement. Just like there was room for improvement in rockets.

I assume your use of the word “investors” refers to Congress approving funding, and is not a reference to private investors. Once Starship is flying and a large space telescope can be designed to optimize the enormous Starship payload capacity and volume, the cost of the telescope should be able to be reduced significantly. Combined with dramatically reduced cost to orbit, the amount of money NASA will be requesting from Congress will drop by an order of magnitude or more, I suspect.

To paraphrase, research expands to fill the budget available.

There's always more to do.
 
Astronomers are a pretty resourceful bunch of astonishingly bright people...

Sure. And they're also poorly funded. And there's no appreciable revenue from their product. And there's no inexpensive terrestrial technology to leverage into a volume production scenario.

Oh, and they can never seem to come to consensus on exactly what technology they want/need for their science, so the end solution ends up being a jack-of-all, master-of-none.

To not-really-paraphrase @ItsNotAboutTheMoney's paraphrase from above, its all about the money.
 
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Not exactly compelling/unexpected news here (and honestly, no need to actually read the article beyond the headline--its otherwise all recycled fluff), but it sounds like Kuiper has received FCC approval for their constellation.

Amazon's Project Kuiper gets FCC approval for over 3,200 internet satellites

IMHO Kuiper is the only real potential challenge to Starlink, as Amazon's deep pockets can 1) fully enable the project architects to drive toward a technology-forward solution (like Starlink), 2) weather the capex storm getting to service launch and, ultimately, positive cashflow, and 3) operate at a loss (maybe almost indefinitely) in order to undercut competition, all in a way that investor-heavy projects like Telesat and OneWeb could only dream.

Obviously SpaceX has (at least) a 5 year head start to build up a customer base and validate their technical and commercial modeling. The flip side is that, as previously opined, there's no such thing as brand loyalty in internet service for those fortunate enough to have valid options.
 
Once Starship is flying and a large space telescope can be designed to optimize the enormous Starship payload capacity and volume, the cost of the telescope should be able to be reduced significantly. Combined with dramatically reduced cost to orbit, the amount of money NASA will be requesting from Congress will drop by an order of magnitude or more, I suspect.
Another benefit of putting large telescopes in space is that this avoids battles over precious mountaintop real estate on Earth.

Building the TMT (Thirty Meter Telescope) on Mauna Kea has proven to be near impossible, due to local objections, and the alternative site on the Canary Islands is no walk in the park, either:

Stalled in Hawaii, giant telescope faces roadblocks at its backup site in the Canary Islands
 
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Starlink speed test results are starting to leak - Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test

I think when they release it they're going to artificially limit its capabilities and maximize the price to not present a threat to ISPs as they roll out their constellation. Minimize lobbying threat. Then once their constallation is at a tipping point (probably around the time Starship is up) they're gonna really flip the switch and start ravaging telcos globally. It's going to be disgusting. Ruthless. And beautiful to behold.
 
Starlink speed test results are starting to leak - Starlink Speedtest

I think when they release it they're going to artificially limit its capabilities and maximize the price to not present a threat to ISPs as they roll out their constellation. Minimize lobbying threat. Then once their constallation is at a tipping point (probably around the time Starship is up) they're gonna really flip the switch and start ravaging telcos globally. It's going to be disgusting. Ruthless. And beautiful to behold.
 
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Starlink speed test results are starting to leak - Speedtest by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test

I think when they release it they're going to artificially limit its capabilities and maximize the price to not present a threat to ISPs as they roll out their constellation. Minimize lobbying threat. Then once their constallation is at a tipping point (probably around the time Starship is up) they're gonna really flip the switch and start ravaging telcos globally. It's going to be disgusting. Ruthless. And beautiful to behold.

Decent stats. Blows GEO satellite out of the water. Half decent ping times confirmed!
 
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I think when they release it they're going to artificially limit its capabilities and maximize the price to not present a threat to ISPs as they roll out their constellation. Minimize lobbying threat.

These are surely a throttled speeds, as there's otherwise no load on the system. Starlink will likely throttle speeds during the ramp up but solely so they don't set unrealistic expectations with their customers. It has nothing to do with lobby or telcos or anything like that.

The speeds themselves are pretty good. Upload is generally better than GEO and download is about in the same ballpark with the current GEOs (Viasat 2, Jupiter 2) for folks that aren't in unfortunately dense beams...maybe a bit better.

One area where Starlink will hopefully really excel over the GEOs is really managing customer density. Especially with older GEOs the beams are so big that its really difficult to not have a ton of people in each one. Even with the newer GEOs, the providers would rather take on more customers in the dense areas and still provide shitty service rather than cap revenue. Not that ElonCo is known for stellar customer service, but I'm hopeful Starlink won't just take on customers to pump revenue.
 
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