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SpaceX Internet Satellite Network: Starlink

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That makes it sound like beams are shared by ground stations. Why would the satellite bother doing that when it can use a phased array to instantaneously shape a beam specific to each ground station that it wants to reach? If the satellite is sending the number 4 to ground station A, then it sends the 4 to ground station A with its own beam. Then it has a 6 to send to B, so it sends that directly at B. Why create a 'static' beam that covers both A and B and send 4 to A and 6 to B?

Starlink system capability, at least for the most part, is limited by the aggregate capacity of the user beams, not the gateway beams. The user beams are indeed formed by a phased array (the gateway beams are not); the size/angle of each beam is almost exclusively a function of the number of elements in the array, which is almost exclusively a function of the physical size/area of the array. I'm not sure exactly where SX is right now, but I'd guess each sat can pretty much form a beam 'grid' with 5000 or so cells. So...the 350km sat can form the same 5000 (or whatever beams) in a much smaller area. It should be noted that what an increasing number of beams brings to the table is the ability to reuse spectrum more often within the total footprint of the satellite--that's the real technical enabler behind the increased density/capacity description from above.

It seems like you only gain in bandwidth if you increase the number of satellites because each one represents an available data cable that a ground station can connect to. The ground stations in view of a satellite must share the wire while the satellite is in view.

The reason this doesn't math out is because capacity is first and foremost a function of regulated power on the ground. It doesn't matter if you have 1 or 100 satellites putting power down over an area; if beam size is the same and thus total number of beams in the area is the same, the max capacity (assuming the one sat is capable power-wise) is the same.

It certainly is true that a lower satellite with a smaller total coverage area results in the constellation needing more satellites to provide an equivalent level of coverage [to higher sats], I that's where you're thinking. Once that metric is satisfied however, more satellites can't actually add capacity. (More sats adds system upside in the form of redundancy, for things like dwindling energy budgets and failures)
 
Possibly Starlink related,
Very well could be the case. Why keep doing things the old way? I think this news was already posted upthread SpaceX providing Starlink services to DoD under ‘unique terms and conditions’
The $70 million contract is a task order under an indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity (IDIQ) procurement vehicle for proliferated low Earth orbit (PLEO) satellite services the Space Force announced in July. SpaceX is one of 16 selected vendors that will compete for up to $900 million worth of task orders over the next five years.
 
17Mbit effective rate from sat to phone. 15% datagram loss rate.
To put that into context that's plenty enough to get video instructions to solve a medical problem if you were stuck in the wilderness and you have the cell to yourself. Or get repair instructions for a vehicle. Or how to identify safe vs poisonous food video. Or any other look up a procedure scenario you could think of that a person stuck in the wilderness would need.

Or it's enough ~7 people to share a cell with all of them having access to 720p video simultaneously in non emergency situations.

Or enough for dozens of people to share a cell if they don't all use it at the same time.

For those remote scenarios where you don't have cell towers in range, the speeds from starlink to a stock cell phone are more than needed for minimal service. It really would be the end of dead zones with no bars of service.

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Bit funny that SpaceX has launched some of the Inmarsat satellites and whole Iridium's fleet. And now seem to steamroll both businesses...
But how will SpaceX price it relative to their ground stations? If it's based on bandwidth, then getting "mobile global" use of your cell phone would cost you $70/month, assuming that 17 Mbps is the best a phone can do and 50 Mbps is the best a mobile dish can do.

$70/month is $840/year. Kinda blows the other satellite services out of the water. Space. Whatever.

Does anyone know how selecting the Starlink "cell" works? Is a phone's normal mode of operation to lock onto the strongest signal and use that?
 
But how will SpaceX price it relative to their ground stations? If it's based on bandwidth, then getting "mobile global" use of your cell phone would cost you $70/month, assuming that 17 Mbps is the best a phone can do and 50 Mbps is the best a mobile dish can do.

$70/month is $840/year. Kinda blows the other satellite services out of the water. Space. Whatever.

Does anyone know how selecting the Starlink "cell" works? Is a phone's normal mode of operation to lock onto the strongest signal and use that?
Huge issue with that thought:
17Mb is capacity of the entire satellite spot.
50Mbps is service to one of many users in a spot.
Capacity of Starship link is much higher.

TMobile and partner cell companies worldwide pay for the service to sell it to their customers (differentiation). SpaceX isn't trying to sell direct to consumers or compete with cell providers.

User terminals and cell phones don't select a satellite. The constellation determines which geographical area is served by which sat and each moment and that's the only option.
The cellphone would only see one (really distant) tower.
 
TMobile and partner cell companies worldwide pay for the service to sell it to their customers (differentiation). SpaceX isn't trying to sell direct to consumers or compete with cell providers.
Regardless, the TMobile option competes with the Starlink option. If SpaceX sets the price to TMobile sufficiently low, how much Starlink business do they stand to lose?
 
To put that into context that's plenty enough to get video instructions to solve a medical problem if you were stuck in the wilderness and you have the cell to yourself. Or get repair instructions for a vehicle. Or how to identify safe vs poisonous food video. Or any other look up a procedure scenario you could think of that a person stuck in the wilderness would need.

Or it's enough ~7 people to share a cell with all of them having access to 720p video simultaneously in non emergency situations.

Or enough for dozens of people to share a cell if they don't all use it at the same time.

For those remote scenarios where you don't have cell towers in range, the speeds from starlink to a stock cell phone are more than needed for minimal service. It really would be the end of dead zones with no bars of service.

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Elon shows good impulse control here, do not want to threaten their MNO partners.
He is just being factual. If there is a cellular service from a tower that has higher strength, obviously the phone would connect to that tower.

A mobile phone would connect to the "cell tower" in the sky (Starlink satellite) only if that mobile is sufficiently far away from any land based cell towers
 
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Regardless, the TMobile option competes with the Starlink option. If SpaceX sets the price to TMobile sufficiently low, how much Starlink business do they stand to lose?
TMobile from cell towers competes with Starlink. TMobile from Starlink does not compete with Starlink, unless the end user has really low bandwidth requirements.
 
He is just being factual. If there is a cellular service from a tower that has higher strength, obviously the phone would connect to that tower.

A mobile phone would connect to the "cell tower" in the sky (Starlink satellite) only if that mobile is sufficiently far away from any land based cell towers
I mean it depends on what you mean by "sufficiently far away":


And this is just their first version, once they get bigger satellites launched on Starship, the signal strength will increase.

Also "fixed wireless" means something else, it's from MNO and absolutely does compete directly with Starlink broadband, Elon basically changed the topic and reiterated they don't want to compete with MNO.
 
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I'm not sure why you replied quoting me to post that. It's almost like you didn't read what I said.

... if you were stuck in the wilderness and you have the cell to yourself. Or get repair instructions for a vehicle. Or how to identify safe vs poisonous food video. Or any other look up a procedure scenario you could think of that a person stuck in the wilderness would need...

and yes I did mention how many users in a cell could share and still have service, but no that has nothing to do with competing with existing cell companies.
 
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Regardless, the TMobile option competes with the Starlink option.

Only in so far as Verizon/ATT mobile services compete with Comcast/Spectrum wired services...which is to say: not to any material degree. Sure, some folks forgo fixed internet service and just rely on their mobile provider for all of their at-home demand, but most folks [that have the ability] are going to pay for cable/fiber to serve their home in addition to their mobile service. Not many people can WFH on a tether, for instance.

Don't get too caught up in the 17mbps number either --That's in a very controlled test environment with no other traffic, not to mention the 15% loss... For sure they're going to get there with the constellation deployment and its fair to assume core connectivity needs are going to be mostly met by whatever level of service they end up offering (if not with noticeable lag in executing heavy bit activities), but there's a lot to it...so don't expect like streaming or anything like that when it comes to the production environment.

That said, there's not much question whether or not the technical solution will be viable--the big unknown is still whether the business model closes.

FWIW, related scuttlebutt is that the TM/SX agreement has some degree of revenue sharing back to SX. That's a pretty good sign that TM was uncertain on making the financial commitment, and also that TM doesn't see this as a significant revenue center (and thus are ok giving away a small piece of a small pie).

I mean it depends on what you mean by "sufficiently far away":

It's certainly easy to over-index on the "15 miles from SV" comment--theres more than a bit of headline sensationalism there. But in reality, as is the case in every population sprawl, there are plenty of low bar and dead zones even quite close to very dense and/or affluent population centers in and around Silicon Valley. In the Santa Cruz mountains, where I suspect Ben lives, there's a gazillion redwoods, significant terrain undulation, and low population density. Pretty much only the main roads here have anything close to constant mobile service. Go a few hundred yards over a ridge and you're dark.

In any event, the real question is not a function of distance between the user and a network node, but rather how difficult the handoff is going to be from the terrestrial cells to the starlink cells. Best case is that it's completely seamless, reality could be bit more complicated.

And this is just their first version, once they get bigger satellites launched on Starship, the signal strength will increase.

To be clear, the signal strength with not increase with bigger satellites. The beam size and thus cell size will decrease with bigger satellites (specifically, bigger antennas) so the number of users in a beam will decrease and thus every user's share of the 17 or whatever mbps will increase. The link will still suffer the same degree of losses from occlusions, doppler compensation, etc.