I meant back then until 2009.
Sorry, in that case I misunderstood.
Don't remind me of the glory days...
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I meant back then until 2009.
Hi all,
I got a call from my german broker (comdirect). He said he doesn't know how exactly things will unfold and that very often they get all the infos they need "when the process has already started", whatever that means. From his perspective he sounded rather pessimistic and could imagine that the split would indeed be considered a taxable event. He also mentioned the Google split a few years ago, where they issued new c-class stock or whatever with a different WKN/ISIN number. If true that would be pretty disastrous to many stockholders. I sure hope he's wrong...
My tax advisor will get back to me on monday hopefully. I will let you know what she had to say.
@Todesbuckler Could you kindly send me your letter to the BMF so I can bug them as well? Thank you very much!
Dear Alexzobe, right now I'm confused by your statement. I thought that there is no capital gains tax in Belgium, but only a 0,15% tax on stock accounts over 500K Euro. If that is true, then why you should be effected by this split or any real dividend?
In Germany we had 0% prior to the year 2009, if you hold onto your stock at least 12 months. But dividends stil caused tax qith your own personal tax percentage based on your income which rises progressively up to the maximum of 42%.
Maybe you have a similar taxation rule in Belgiu, otherwise I don't understand how what you are writing fits to what I have read. And I have read about the Belgium taxation on the official website of the tax authority in my native language German as it is one of the 3 offical Government languages in Belgium. In East Belgium the people speak German.
Of course this is no advise or official statement from my side, but just what I had understood when studying the Belgium tax system. My understanding could be flawed or plain wrong.
This is correct there is NO tax on the money you can make with Stock Gains with exception on dividend, either in cash or in stock. Although the spirit of the Tesla split is indeed a standard regressive Stock split, Tesla has been using the word "Dividend" in their communication. This is the reason why so much people are concerned to better understand the taxes implications : Dividend in most EU countries (not US) are taxes between 20 to 30% (i.e. Belgium is 30%).
While it seems more confirmations are collected to validate that there will be NO Tax on the split, the belgian Tax authority has stated that they need more info before fully confirming if No taxes are due. The issue is that ONLY Tesla would know the exact details of the split transaction. I've been asking them to clarify this through their ir.tesla.com contact mail and I recommend all of the users of this blog to do the same . Time is ticking...
I love the opportunity this thread gives me to practice tetralingual skills. Not worried in the least about dividend tax. In NL you can recuperate those on your income tax declaration. Not so in B, or D?
Dear Ipe, unfortunately that's not the case in Germany. Since 2009 you need to pay 26.375% taxes for stock gains and dividends.
The trade off is that you at least don't need to pay wealth tax in Germany. As long as you don't sell your stocks the government can't demand taxes. Even if you would sitt on several multimillions of gains like a Dragon on a a pile of gold, they can't do anything.
Only on dividends the banks will automatically forward the taxes to the government, because dividends are paid continously and therefore a financial transaction occurs.TThis automatic forwarding happens in case of stock sells too.
And that is exactly the problem for me. I don't want to sell Tesla shares and therefore don't want to pay this tax. Somewhere in the far future I might want to sell and then of course I will pay the taxes.
But if the Tesla split is interpreted as a dividend then I have to pay instantly my taxes. It doesn't matter if I have gains or not in the stock. The argument would be share price x 4/5 x 26,375% = tax amount. And that happened back in 2014 in case of the Google split. A lot of people paid taxes although they had no gains in their Google shares due to the 2:1 split. So in worst case they bought the shares 1 day ahead of the split and had to pay taxes of 26,375% for the additional Google B stocks although they had no winnings. In my case I was sitting on a lot of gains and therefore I didn't have to pay taxes for nothing, but could argue that I have on the other hand not to pay taxes for the sell-off of my Google A shares. But still the sell was forced on me as I didn't want to sell my Google shares, but I had to do to cover the tax demand from my broker.
I'm here because due to this messed up situation back in 2014 I am very very careful and want to ensure that such a thing doesn't happen to me today again. That's why I demanded statements from the government BMF, my Broker and Tesla IR in advance and seeking for people in the same situation. And that's why I am here in this forum and glad to see that we have high quality people here with obviously an over the average IQ and stock market understanding. I wished I would live in a community with people of that quality, but I understand that a small percentage of people are on this level and this forum works just as a amplifier bringing these people around the world together.
If somehow this Trsla split situation leads to a tax payment due to our government, the broker or other entities like the Wertpapiermeldestelle, then I'm quit sure I'm done with being a German resident. The socialist tendencies startet becoming inconvenient a while ago and this topic we are discussing since 4 days in this thread is just one major issue beside the newly announced unfair taxation rules for stock owners, especially traders, beginning with 2021 and beside the upcoming election year with a rise of socialist ideas like additinal wealth taxes in addition to the already high tax rates for high incomes. Together with the high rates for social security and health care this is leading to a payment of over half of your income, when you are a high tier employee.
So I don't want to grind off from the subject of this thread. But if you think about it, then you will realize that I'm in this situation because I'm not in a tax heaven like a 10+ million JP Morgan customer, but I am dependent from mediocre brokers and a, in my opinion, incompetent German goverment, who thinks it's okay to do nothing until something (Tesla split) happens and then to decide in their interest as a tax receiving entity to collect the money (Tesla split taxes) and then to expect me to take legal action to overrule this decision (BMF statement a year later in regards to the unfair google split tax demand in 2014 due to protests from stock owners) and when I am spoken right afterwards they even don't pay the taxes back but give me some kind of voucher cupon llike store to which I have returned some kind of clothes to get my next purchase for free. And they call this Verlustverrechnungstopf. Some people would call this theft.
Thanks to you guys, but as I won't have any new information until split happens, I guess I will be a passive reader again of this great forum. Of course I will read frequently and comment when I have new informations in regards of the Tesla split in Germany. Please keep us informed in case of new informations. In additon as many people as possible are addressing their brokers and the BMF to make a loud noise the better for all of us as this shows them to deal with the situation now and not next year. The official corrective statements and so called delta corrections of taxes in regards to the Google split were made years later in the bank accounts. Hopefully this time this doesn't happen.
Of course as always above mentioned statements are no financial advises and/or my personal opinion. I'm just a private person and don't work for any private finance company or government institutions and have no profession in tax or financial matters with any kind of official degree.
Kind regards
Amon
Which Austrian broker was this?My Austrian broker said that this won't be a taxable event, assuming this is a normal split. I'm not convinced it is a normal split though. This is what they said:
===
Sehr geehrter Herr Einstein,
vielen Dank für Ihre Anfrage.
Ein "normaler" Split, durch den Sie zusätzlich neue Aktien bekommen, hat in der Regel keine steuerliche Auswirkung,
Der steuerliche Anschaffungswert wird auf die gesamte Stückanzahl aufgeteilt. Dadurch, dass zusätzliche Stücke eingebucht werden, verringert sich der steuerliche Einstandskurs.
Die steuerlichen Informationen zu Ihren Positionen können Sie jederzeit über den KESt-Status-Bericht abfragen.
Bei Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
===
Anyone in Austria have any more information on this?
Thanks Much !
This sounds to be another belgium story as I called them 3 times and asked a confirmation by e-mail and in my e-mail it is stated 99% chance of not being taxed. The only difference is that I was talking to the french speaking part of Binck bank It sounds they are not even aligned within the same bank...
View attachment 576492View attachment 576492
Thanks! Will keep it in the casre somethign goes wrong
I called Binck here in Belgium and they could NOT confirm... Do you have their confirmation in written ?
Thanks
Dear Alexzobe, right now I'm confused by your statement. I thought that there is no capital gains tax in Belgium, but only a 0,15% tax on stock accounts over 500K Euro. If that is true, then why you should be effected by this split or any real dividend?
In Germany we had 0% prior to the year 2009, if you hold onto your stock at least 12 months. But dividends stil caused tax qith your own personal tax percentage based on your income which rises progressively up to the maximum of 42%.
Maybe you have a similar taxation rule in Belgiu, otherwise I don't understand how what you are writing fits to what I have read. And I have read about the Belgium taxation on the official website of the tax authority in my native language German as it is one of the 3 offical Government languages in Belgium. In East Belgium the people speak German.
Of course this is no advise or official statement from my side, but just what I had understood when studying the Belgium tax system. My understanding could be flawed or plain wrong.
Hi all,
I got a call from my german broker (comdirect). He said he doesn't know how exactly things will unfold and that very often they get all the infos they need "when the process has already started", whatever that means. From his perspective he sounded rather pessimistic and could imagine that the split would indeed be considered a taxable event. He also mentioned the Google split a few years ago, where they issued new c-class stock or whatever with a different WKN/ISIN number. If true that would be pretty disastrous to many stockholders. I sure hope he's wrong...
My tax advisor will get back to me on monday hopefully. I will let you know what she had to say.
@Todesbuckler Could you kindly send me your letter to the BMF so I can bug them as well? Thank you very much!
I am German as well and recommend you to read all posts from the last days which should give you a head start.Hello. I am new member here from germany. I signed up because of the tax uncertainty for germans and I have no idea what to do.
My Tesla stock is at ING-Diba bank in germany.
I would be thankful if anyone could send me the text, that I could send to my contact person at this bank to get a reply.
Hopefully one or some of you could post your strategy what to do before 21st of August. (Taking the risk or not)
My knowledge ist rather smal regarding the stock market, but I am heavily invested (thankfully) in Tesla and I have no other option as to, more or less, do what others do who are much more knowledgeable then me in this regards.
Thanks a lot.
Thank you for your quick reply.I am German as well and recommend you to read all posts from the last days which should give you a head start.
Travelling today and therefore in a nutshell, we do not have any information yet how the Tax Authorities in Germany will decide.
I would not do anything right now and I will not sell unless I am forced to because in my case it does not put me in a better position AFAIK.
Head of IR TESLA Martin Viecha told me twice he and his team looked at it from all angels and it’s not a taxable event.