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Supercharger - Turkey Lake, FL
- Thread starter NigelM
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- Florida Supercharging USA
No one is going to get off I-4, pay a toll, supercharge, then go back to I-4 and potentially pay another toll. It is not efficient or effective as a travel detour. Superchargers for the most part have been located to be easily accessible.
I've always been an advocate of locating at the Mall at Millennia because of its proximity to I-4 and the Turnpike but now that this is going in, I would recommend Champions Gate for I-4 because Millennia is truly a busy exit. Although there are plenty of things to do at the mall, the last thing you would want is to take the exit with <10 miles of range and barely make it because of all the traffic.
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Hi Anzir,
I agree that the turnpike location is less than ideal.
For what its worth, when I solicited our membership to suggest specific Supercharger locations, the Mall at Millennia was the most frequently suggested location.
Larry
I think it's a lot more accessible than you are making it out to be. I'm sure an I-4 commuter will give it a go and report back. With a sunpass transponder, is it really much different than exiting off I-4 and going through a couple of traffic lights? Surely you are kidding about paying tolls being an obstacle.... how much could it be for this short on/off? Certainly less than a tank of gas.
i was in favor of the Mall for the location as well, but I see the logic in choosing this site; if the objective is to serve commuters rather than locals or destination users.
Hi Bill,
I am sure the vast majority of us are greatful for this new Supercharger location on the turnpike. However, many of us also feel that the location is less that ideal if it were to be the only location in the Orlando area. Could we use a Sunpass and detour? Sure, but as I said this is less than ideal.
As I discussed in my mass mailing to our membership on the subject of suggested Supercharger locations, "The Supercharger Network policy is evolving and in addition to the initial roll-out that emphasized locations on major highways in support of long range road trips, Tesla is beginning to pursue destination locations as well." Orlando is a major destination, call me an optimist, but I believe that Tesla will provide an additional Orlando Supercharger location to complement the turnpike location eventually.
Larry
I will. I don't mind paying a toll on my way to go get a free fill up and a few miles up the turnpike at highway speeds is probably easier than traffic, red lights and congestion around some of the major malls.
As a resident of "Toll-lando" I guess I'm just frustrated that yet another interest point is behind the toll wall. Obviously as a local I wouldn't expect to use it, but there was another location that would have worked better for the crossroads of Central Florida.
This happens to work out really well for me, I often drive from Miami to visit family around Minneola.
Now I can go Miami -> Port St Lucie Supercharger -> Orlando Turnpike supercharger -> Minneola, and arrive with a 'full tank', and not bum a charge off my family.
This also works really well for people continuing north to Lake City, and potentially on to Atlanta or towards Pensacola (once more superchargers are built out in those directions).
Now I can go Miami -> Port St Lucie Supercharger -> Orlando Turnpike supercharger -> Minneola, and arrive with a 'full tank', and not bum a charge off my family.
This also works really well for people continuing north to Lake City, and potentially on to Atlanta or towards Pensacola (once more superchargers are built out in those directions).
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
That!
If I were doing Supercharger planning for Tesla, this would be my reasoning that leads to the currently chosen Orlando location:
For people coming to the Miami-Palm Beach area from the Midwest, Atlanta area, or via I-10, the obvious route is I-75 and the Florida Turnpike. Doing this, the distance of 187 miles from Ocala to Port St. Lucie is too far for good Supercharger spacing. It is a challenge for 60's at speed, and far enough to force 85's driving quickly, into the slow charge taper. The Orlando location on the turnpike breaks up this route nicely into 67 and 120 mile segments, and is in the perfect location.
For people going Tampa to Daytona, (Brandon to Port Orange), that section is only 134 miles, a nice comfortable distance between Superchargers without needing Orlando.
For people staying Orlando as a destination, L2 charging at destinations is easier and quicker for the EV driver, and if Tesla wants to support it, cheaper for Tesla. I would much rather plug my car in at the hotel in Orlando and have it charge while I have dinner and sleep, than spend 30 min at a Supercharger and 15 min getting there and back. A new Supercharger costs Tesla something like $150k to $250k. For $50k, Tesla could offer $5k each to for HPWC's to the first 10 Orlando hotels to qualify (~2 HPWC's per hotel, installed). his would put pressure on other hotels to do the same to attract Tesla owners. After that, Tesla could continue the HPWC give-away program to the other hotels who wanted to catch up.
You make a very good point. All things being equal, if you are staying at an Orlando hotel, it is more convenient to have available overnight charging than to travel to a Supercharger. Of course you have to be assured that a charger will be available when you arrive. With the exponential growth of EV adoption that may not always be assured.
However, as you know it is not an either/or proposition. That being either Superchargers or Lever 2 destination chargers. Tesla is actively pursuing both complementary approaches. I am actively involved with Tesla in promoting their Destination Charging Program here in Florida and I can tell you that even with donated HPWCs it is a labor intense and time consuming process to get hotels/resorts management to agree to install and maintain them. So regardless of costs there is a lot more coordination involved in getting 10 or more different hotel/resorts to agree to install HPWCs than a single Supercharger Station, despite the more involved permitting/engineering involved with Supercharger Stations. Don't get me wrong, it is very important to pursue overnight Level 2 destination charging. It's just easier said than done when you are dealing with an order of magnitude or greater number of Level 2 destinations.
In the state of Florida 30% of the population lives in multi-unit dwelling where installing home charging infrastructure can be problematic. Tesla is aware of this issue and they are beginning to consider locating Superchargers in urban areas to help address this situation. This of course will be a departure from the initial road trip oriented policy.
Another important consideration is that as Tesla ramps up production, particularly in a few years when they are producing hundreds of thousands of cars year after year, Supercharger congestion is inevitable if Tesla maintains their current Supercharger spacing. Tesla of course knows this and they will evolve to a closer spacing policy. So as time passes I am confident that we will see more closer spacings. It is only logical that this higher density of Supercharger Stations will start appearing in major destinations with higher density population centers, such as Orlando.
Larry
Very important points, Larry. Tesla can't be shortsighted with Supercharger demand because as soon as the X comes into (full production) play, some locations will be filled more often than not.
Add the Model 3 to the SC mix and I feel I'd rather pony up the $60-80 for a 90-second battery swap than wait for a SC stall to open up.
I've got a P85D on order, but do not yet own a Tesla -- how busy are the existing Florida superchargers?
I would imagine this Orlando location to probably be one of the busiest as soon as it opens as it's a big city and centrally located on highways (both Origin/Destination traffic as well as passing through). Kinda surprised it's only going to be set up to charge 5 cars at once.
You have to figure that in by December 2015 the total number of Teslas on the road will probably be 2X what they are today due to ramped up production capacity. A 2x increase does increase demand, sure, but it's nothing compared to the numbers we will see once the Model 3 goes into full production. At that point, the only option will be to have Superchargers at every single highway rest stop, and capacity for at least 10 chargers on big routes (like this orlando location).
I am not a "road warrior", but so far the only time I experienced a full Supercharger Station was at ribbon cutting ceremonies. However, as you say that can change with increased production.
We of course don't know with certainty how many service plaza parking spaces are ultimately going to be devoted to Superchargers. There can always be a second shipment of equipment. Five spaces would be unusual, but not impossible. If true it would mean only one charging stall connected to a single Supercharger cabinet. There is usually two. It doesn't surprise me that the Turnpike Authority might limit the number of spaces devoted to a proprietary charger to four. It also supports my wishful thinking regarding an additional Orlando region Supercharger Station down the road.
We will see the Supercharger congestion issue manifest itself in California first of course. Likewise we will see how Tesla addresses congestion in California first. There is evidence to suggest that in addition to expanding the number of charging stalls, that Tesla is may also be constructing a battery swapping station at the Hawthorne Supercharger station. As the construction proceeds we will know for sure.
There are some rumors that suggest that there will be more service plazas on the turnpike with Superchargers. The Fort Drum Service Plaza is a leading candidate.
Larry
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Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
All excellent points. I worked getting a couple of 70A, J1772 EVSE's installed in Pagosa Springs and Salida, CO; I know first hand how difficult it can be. See 4 Corners EV Charging for some of the story. Although there is little there posted about how much time and effort it takes to find host sites and convince them to install an EVSE, it really is a lot of work. Thank you for all of your hard work in Florida.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on these points, and it is already happening!
California has already seen congestion and queueing at several sites including Gilroy, Hawthorne, Barstow, and San Juan Capistrano. We know of action that Tesla has taken or is taking at most of these locations, and they are probably planning action everywhere. Here are some good examples of Tesla seeing locations reaching or heading to capacity and working to stay ahead of the game.
- Gilroy was upgraded from 4 to 10 Stalls, early on. Now that 4 Stalls are down for upgrading from 90kW to 135kW, queues have appeared again.
- Hawthorne got additional Mobile Supercharger stalls and is now in the process of being ugraded to 12-20 Stalls.
- Barstow was upgraded from 4 Stalls fed by 2 90kW Cabinets to 8 Stalls fed by 4 135kW cabinets. In addition, because of the long distance to Las Vegas and the need to do lengthy 90-100% charges that further congested Barstow, Telsa is putting in the Primm, NV site.
- San Juan Capistrano off loaded Hawthorne, but quickly became crowded in its own right. Hopefully, San Diego and Rancho Cucamunga will help, but this site may need more.
- For the needs in the Inland Empire area east of LA, Rancho Cucamunga will be the first 12 Stall Superchager.
- and on and on and on...
As you said, Tesla will continue adding capacity where needed by increasing the number of stalls at some locations and adding more locations to increase the capacity of the entire system.
Some have complained that Tesla is putting more effort into California before building out Supercharger routes elsewhere, but I am sure that Tesla understands that the negative press from frequent queues at Superchargers is much worse than some areas waiting for connectivity. The motivation to provide great customer experiences will keep Tesla motivated to add capacity where needed. After all, the cost of building and operating Superchargers is really a small marketing expense, when you come down to it.
I have used the superchargers at Port St Lucie, Port Orange, Ft Myers, Tampa, and Lake City. On several occasions I usually have been the only car on the charger. The most I have ever seen was three at a recent Tampa stop, and I was leaving as the third car was pulling in.
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