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T-Roadster, bound to be interesting track car.

Discussion in 'Roadster: Performance' started by danny, Aug 16, 2006.

  1. tonybelding

    tonybelding Active Member

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    All tires are a compromise of one sort or another. . . but as far as I know, the Advan Neova tire wasn't created specifically for the Tesla Roadster. It's simply the latest and most advanced performance tire that Yokohama has come out with, and if it happens to have lower rolling resistance then I suppose that's an accidental bonus.
     
  2. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Yup. For an efficient tire it appears that it will make a decent track tire as well. As Telsa would say "no compromises".

    http://www.yokohama.ca/article.php?story=20060407092527962
    "Lotus Cars selected the new Yokohama ADVAN Neova as original equipment fitment on the new Lotus Elise. "

    (given the Elise connection to the roadster that must have made it an easy first choice to consider)

    http://www.yokohama.ca/article.php?story=20060407092527962
    "As a thoroughbred tire, the ADVAN Neova requires specific care.
    Yokohama Tire recommends owners store the ADVAN Neova in a dry, climate-controlled area during winter and not subject the tires to temperatures below -10° C."

    OK, so it isn't a great tire for Alaska... I wonder if they ran those tires for their cold weather testing in Sweden?
     
  3. W8MM

    W8MM R1.5 #325 + Mdl S #01380

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    I recently took the passenger seat of a Lotus Elise Sport for some hot laps at Putnam Park Road Course. I was piloted by a podium-finishing pro driver who well knows his way around the track.

    If the Tesla Roadster handles anywhere nearly as well as that Elise Sport, it's going to be beyond great to drive on a track. The Elise Sport was shod with Yokohama A048 Advan "DOT" race tires that look like they would fit the Roadster just fine. The 195 width front tires might benefit from 8" (vs. stock 7.5") wide front rims , but I don't know the width specification for the front wheels on the Sport version compared to the normal Elise.

    The Elise Sport was so well balanced and had so much grip that it could easily keep up with most of the race cars with which we were sharing the track as it carried speed through various combinations of corners. It was turning lap times equal to cars that exceeded its 110 MPH straightaway speed by 15 to as much as 30 MPH, mainly due to its tenacious, yet wonderfully balanced handling ability. I was really impressed with how well it got around the course. Only two full-tilt race cars with slicks could top its radar measured corner exit speeds.

    During my headquarters visit, I quizzed Tesla's Philip Luk about the Roadster's center of mass compared to an Elise. He told me that it was actually lower than that of the Elise owning to the shape of the battery pack filling the space otherwise consumed by the Elise's fuel tank. Li-ion cells must weigh a lot more per unit volume than does gasoline!

    I had imagined that the Roadster might be more top-heavy than the Elise just because of the weight and height of the battery pack, but I had not thought about the arrangement of the mass not needed for the Elise's conventional IC engine and transmission. If the extra weight of the ESS can be somewhat compensated by an even lower center of mass, I expect the Roadster to be just as much fun to track drive as was the Elise Sport. It might be even more fun because its "E-drive" should accelerate way better than the comparatively wheezy motor In the Elise.

    The Elise Sport turned in great lap times mainly because it didn't need to slow down as much as other cars through the corners. Imagine if it could accelerate, too!

    Anyway, I think it will be great fun to get another set of wheels, mount some A048 tires on them, and take the Roadster to a track!
     
  4. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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  5. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Hmmm....

    Tesla Motors - think

    " TEG2 wrote on October 26th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
    I know you folks have your hands full (to say it mildly), but I wanted to toss out the suggestion for a “Roadster Light” someday:
    • 35kWH pack
      One gear
      90MPH top speed
      170mile average range
      2300lbs (2/3 ESS capacity and no transmission might get you there already)
      $80,000 "
    Now, lets hope the price falls into line considering far fewer batteries.
     
  6. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    By the way, I know that dsacks (who runs this forum) has a particular interest in seeing the roadster as a track car.
     
  7. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Tesla drifting?

    I was just watching some "Drifting" on ESPNHD.

    Being RWD with good handling could make the Roadster a possible drift candidate. With complete DSP control over motor torque someone could make some "drift mode" firmware. Take a reading off the front wheel speed, and tell the eMotor to spin the rear wheels at 120% of front wheel speed. Pedal to the floor and go.

    "Burn rubber not gasoline..."

    exige_drifting_small.jpg
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  8. BBHighway

    BBHighway Member

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    DSP controlled drifting, that's a cool idea, although drift affectionados would says that's takes all the fun out of it.

    The Roadster would also need some sort of limited-slip differential, or maybe an active differential. Currently, only the right wheel spins (driving in a straight line) if the traction control is disabled. That would probably also improve the 0-60 time by a tenth or so.
     
  9. power

    power Member

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    #29 power, Nov 30, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2008
    As an avid SCCA Pro/Club racer, I’m getting very excited about the possibility of racing an electric racer! Right now, I currently race a car that was not ever thought of as being a car with "race potential" but it does very well and has logged over 110 race days! (and its still driven to the track) I don’t think that the tire compound really makes that much of a difference, as i get near 21mph to the track and near 4mpg on the track using DOT R compound tires year round.
    The idea of using a Tesla roadster on the track, could become a reality if a few questions can be answered. If the Tesla and its 25kwh power plant was to be used on a race track, certainly its 200mile distance capability would be chopped to a small fraction. If you need all full power, its would be in the 15 mins range. However, in racing, you generally are at full throttle only about 50% of the time. so, as is, a 30 min session or race might be in its capabilities. As was mentioned, in paddock charging might be possible as it is not uncommon to have several hours between practice, qualifying and racing sessions. Time trial days, or DEs might be possible, but you might have to miss a session or two as those events focus on maximum track time. :)
    In my mind, can the power plant exert full power or 50% duty cycle/ 10 seconds? (meaning full power for 10 seconds, off for 10 seconds). can the lithium batteries handle the high current discharge without losing too much voltage. (This has always been a challenge for this rechargeable battery type) . What happens to their capacity? I bet it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to have the battery capacity cut in half for max discharge rates. I know the cells have a internal cut out circuit, but do they reset after time or can they be permanently damaged?

    As a side note, safety would also be a concern. obviously, a 2300lb Tesla could be a potent racer, maybe as fast or faster than a lotis Exige. Also, it has already passed crash tests, but in extreme impacts, are the batteries a danger? Probably no more than all the leaky fuel cells I’ve seen go up in flames on impact on occasion.

    Getting back to performance, if there was a way to get a second speed to spend more of the vehicle's time at or near its max power capabilities, 30-40% more performance might be had on the track. Since most of the time on the race track is spent between 70 and 110mph, a second gear to increase available HP might be something found in a race version.

    These are exciting times. With VW and their TDI diesels showing a commitment to "green" racing, it would be a natural for one of the electric manufactures to REALLY show a green effort and one that isn’t a compromise of performance like Tesla would be able to produce.

    mk
     
  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    I think others have pondered many of the same questions you mentioned. They probably have contacted someone within Tesla about this, although I don't know who. I suspect Tesla has some plans for eventual racing but it doesn't seem to be their priority right now.
     
  11. elirentz

    elirentz Member

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    Also being a certified track day junky myself one thing I worry about is the ability for the emergency crews to deal with an EV in a crash. Not that it would be any more dangerous than a fuel filled race car/ bomb but the emergency crews at any roadcourse are trained and equiped to deal with them and probably less with high energy density electrical components.

    Ev's IMO would be a perfect for racing though as they are highly efficient, more reliable with fewer components with (typically) higher revving motors.

    Another side to this is that if racing started going more toward electricity there could be more race tracks built because there would be a lot less for anyone to complain about with so much less noise.
     

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