Teo Takes Tesla To Task

[bonnie]

Part of the pushback, Teo, was also your suggestion to record Tesla on the phone, tell them you were recording, and share that recording everywhere ... with no in-between to give them a chance to respond (and never mind the fact that what you were originally suggesting was illegal).

People want to work with Tesla to get this resolved. I understand that people like golfski, who have paid money for access, will be upset to be iced. They have a right to be. The flip side of that coin is that as an early adopter (pre Model S), I feel a responsibility to help people understand that EVs are not threatening, etc.

To bully my way in to get what I want, even though legally entitled, is the short game. My personal goal (and I suspect the goal of the people pushing back on you) is the long game: Wide acceptance and adoption of EVs.

I don't want to be keyed in a parking lot because someone is mad about Teslas and EVs. I want to share the parking lots. I wish these spots were in more inconvenient places, honestly. I hate looking like I'm entitled, it just adds to the problem. And I want to work this problem out, not force a solution by embarrassing people and calling them out publicly. Because then I've only solved it for one place.

I'm not after a war between EVs and ICE. I want ICE drivers to look at EVs and want one. And feel sorry about the time they were so small that they ICEd a spot. Not feel challenged and keep doing it, 'just to get even'.

Long game.

 

[Teo]

... not force a solution by embarrassing people and calling them out publicly. Because then I've only solved it for one place.

In big companies problems continue to happen because the information doesn't get through to higher management. Look at this Porsche guy who had problems with his car. His issue was solved after this video had over a million views.
Porsche 911 991 issues: UPDATE: Porsche and I have reached a solution - YouTube

 

[dsm363]

Do you know for a fact the property owners didn't say 'you can put a supercharger here but we want it to be general parking'? A I understand the law here, the fines only apply for ICEing a spot if the proper signage is up. If the owner doesn't wish to do that then the ICE has every right to block someone from charging although they shouldn't of course. I do wish Tesla would properly mark the spots but there must be a reason other then no one had secretly recorded them and alerted the media to shame them yet.

 

[bonnie]

In big companies problems continue to happen because the information doesn't get through to higher management. Look at this Porsche guy who had problems with his car. His issue was solved after this video had over a million views.
Porsche 911 991 issues: UPDATE: Porsche and I have reached a solution - YouTube

That's true. But Tesla is different. We have a company where their senior management actively stays in touch with what is going on - there are numerous stories on this forum where people like Jerome Guillen and George Blankenship (prior) reached out directly to get problems resolved. And many many other examples. Just look around the forum for a bit.

Tesla has not been one of *those* companies. You can dismiss my opinion and others as merely 'fanboys' or 'fangirls', but please keep in mind that our opinions have been formed by actual real world experience with Tesla, not just theory. I've had them come through for me on every single occasion - not because I took them to task publicly, but because I talked to them rationally, one on one. That seems to have been the most effective method. I suspect if I had tried to embarrass them publicly, they still would have done the right thing, but I would have lost a lot of goodwill. Again ... long game.

- - - Updated - - -

And good example as to why I will never again own a Porsche.

 

[Merrill]

Part of the pushback, Teo, was also your suggestion to record Tesla on the phone, tell them you were recording, and share that recording everywhere ... with no in-between to give them a chance to respond (and never mind the fact that what you were originally suggesting was illegal).

People want to work with Tesla to get this resolved. I understand that people like golfski, who have paid money for access, will be upset to be iced. They have a right to be. The flip side of that coin is that as an early adopter (pre Model S), I feel a responsibility to help people understand that EVs are not threatening, etc.

To bully my way in to get what I want, even though legally entitled, is the short game. My personal goal (and I suspect the goal of the people pushing back on you) is the long game: Wide acceptance and adoption of EVs.

I don't want to be keyed in a parking lot because someone is mad about Teslas and EVs. I want to share the parking lots. I wish these spots were in more inconvenient places, honestly. I hate looking like I'm entitled, it just adds to the problem. And I want to work this problem out, not force a solution by embarrassing people and calling them out publicly. Because then I've only solved it for one place.

I'm not after a war between EVs and ICE. I want ICE drivers to look at EVs and want one. And feel sorry about the time they were so small that they ICEd a spot. Not feel challenged and keep doing it, 'just to get even'.

Long game.

Having been in a position my career to make something happen I learned that honey works better than acid. Did lots of negotiations over the years and even if you are in a position of saying it's my way or the highway, that never works. You need respect to have people listen to you and you get that by being open and fair and listening, not demanding. This situation is no different, it needs to be addressed by Tesla and we should start by making them aware of the specific situations with pictures and an explanation.

 

[stopcrazypp]

In big companies problems continue to happen because the information doesn't get through to higher management. Look at this Porsche guy who had problems with his car. His issue was solved after this video had over a million views.
Porsche 911 991 issues: UPDATE: Porsche and I have reached a solution - YouTube

The main push back against your tactic is because we have not reached a point where it is clear Tesla is not listening to complaints (unlike the Porsche case you presented where the same owner had multiple complaints on various issues and clearly his car is a lemon). The only evidence presented so far hinting at that is a third party account of an owner who said Tesla was called and that they "were not helpful at all". We don't know what "were not helpful at all" means and how the particular Tesla rep responded.

As for complaints posted on forums: forums are not an official channel for complaints (even though sometimes Tesla does look and respond). That's why there's been many times where people who come to "vent" are directed back to contacting their Tesla rep.

Also, even up to this point, no one, including you, can say for sure Tesla violated any law about signage, nor the exact situation with the station (is it legitimately shared "general" parking?). We are all guessing here.

For example, what if an EVSE is installed in someone's garage or driveway in WA? Is it expected that a sign must be posted up in that situation? Does the police have the authority to issue a fine (esp. on private property)? The situation is the same here, if the sign is not posted up, it may be because the hotel does not want to designate the spot as an "electric vehicle charging station" but rather keep it as a private spot, where the chargers are there for convenience only. There is not enough clarity in the law as it is written to resolve this ambiguity.

 

[Cottonwood]

That's true. But Tesla is different. We have a company where their senior management actively stays in touch with what is going on - there are numerous stories on this forum where people like Jerome Guillen and George Blankenship (prior) reached out directly to get problems resolved. And many many other examples. Just look around the forum for a bit.

Let's not try to solve a problem before it's gets even close to happening.

I have been to 28 Superchargers. I have never had to wait (got close in Hawthorne and Barstow), and have NEVER had a problem because a Supercharger was ICEd.

The only place where I have seen an ICE'ing problem even close to happing was in Glenwood Springs at the Marriott Residence Inn. There they put the Supercharger Stalls in a very prime location and were getting ICEd regularly by lazy, late-arriving hotel guests. The hotel management took on the problem and put little orange cones in front of the stalls. Most Tesla drivers understand, move the cones when they charge, and move the back when they leave; simple solution to a simple problem.

No reason to go to battle until we start seeing hints of a problem. Even then, small solutions will often work well. No reason to make enemies right away...

 

[Teo]

No reason to go to battle until we start seeing hints of a problem.

So are you then accusing the OP for lying or did you skip reading the opening message?

I have been to 28 Superchargers. I have never had to wait

I'm glad in your mind you live in a perfect world where problems don't exist if they don't happen to you.

 

[NigelM]

I'm glad in your mind you live in a perfect world where problems don't exist if they don't happen to you.

You do seem preoccupied with assumed problems that don't happen to you.

 

[dsm363]

Concerns about waiting in line for superchargers

So are you then accusing the OP for lying or did you skip reading the opening message?


I'm glad in your mind you live in a perfect world where problems don't exist if they don't happen to you.

You really need to ease off little. You've raised your concerns. No reason to jump on people who have actually Supercharged and shared their experiences when you never have. You think it is a big problem now while others who have actually Supercharged more than zero times don't.

 

[Lloyd]

Do you know for a fact the property owners didn't say 'you can put a supercharger here but we want it to be general parking'? A I understand the law here, the fines only apply for ICEing a spot if the proper signage is up. If the owner doesn't wish to do that then the ICE has every right to block someone from charging although they shouldn't of course. I do wish Tesla would properly mark the spots but there must be a reason other then no one had secretly recorded them and alerted the media to shame them yet.

I know that in our area each office/business has to allocate a set number of spaces per 1000 square feet of business depending on the type of business. If you allocate those spaces away to another specific purpose, then you may be in violation of county code and subject to a correction notice. We are also required to have minimum % of landscaping to lot size, so many times you can't just add spaces without violating the landscaping requirement. Government in action!!

 

[Teo]

rpo,

If you take a picture of an ICED station you can submit a tip on one of the following websites that have regular Tesla news:

http://www.engadget.com/about/tips/
http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/contact-us-and-faq/22468682
http://transportevolved.com/contact-us/
http://insideevs.com/about/

 

[bonnie]

rpo,

If you take a picture of an ICED station you can submit a tip on one of the following websites that have regular Tesla news:

http://www.engadget.com/about/tips/
http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/contact-us-and-faq/22468682
http://transportevolved.com/contact-us/
http://insideevs.com/about/

Is there a reason you wouldn't recommend telling Tesla?

And everyone ... certainly you can also send pictures to these sites of the non-ICEd superchargers you visit. Just so they can keep the problem in context.

 

[Teo]

Is there a reason you wouldn't recommend telling Tesla?

You can try. According to the OP, in Ellensburg somebody contacted Tesla but was unimpressed with their response. My guess is that Tesla refused to contact the host because the signage doesn't prevent general parking. What is the person supposed to do? Keep contacting Tesla repeatedly like a stalker? Send them pictures after the fact and tell that even though Tesla couldn't care less when he was stuck at a station for over an hour, here are some pictures for them to look, about the exact same problem they refused to help on the phone?

 

[bonnie]

You can try. According to the OP, in Ellensburg somebody contacted Tesla but was unimpressed with their response. My guess is that Tesla refused to contact the host because the signage doesn't prevent general parking. What is the person supposed to do? Keep contacting Tesla repeatedly like a stalker? Send them pictures after the fact and tell that even though Tesla couldn't care less when he was stuck at a station for over an hour, here are some pictures for them to look, about the exact same problem they refused to help on the phone?

You don't know. None of us can possibly know what happens internally at Tesla. You're projecting a reason to fit your responses. As multiple people have said, Tesla has been informed of repeated problems at Hawthorne (as an example) and they fixed it. But I DO know this: If you don't inform them of a problem, then there is no way they know of the problem & it is far less likely they will do anything. And that's not helpful, is it?

Any place can have a problem from time to time. Obviously Tesla needs to know each time it's a problem so they can determine if it is on-going or a one time thing. Partnering always seems to work better in my experience. It seems your experience has been different. I'm sorry.

 

[dsm363]

Make sure you also call all four network television stations if you see someone in the city parks too close to a fire hydrant or otherwise parks illegally. We can no let this stand!

 

[stopcrazypp]

You can try. According to the OP, in Ellensburg somebody contacted Tesla but was unimpressed with their response. My guess is that Tesla refused to contact the host because the signage doesn't prevent general parking. What is the person supposed to do? Keep contacting Tesla repeatedly like a stalker? Send them pictures after the fact and tell that even though Tesla couldn't care less when he was stuck at a station for over an hour, here are some pictures for them to look, about the exact same problem they refused to help on the phone?

I think you are reading too much negative speculation into a third party account about an owner that said that Tesla "were not helpful at all". It is just as likely the owner is unhappy because the cars were not immediately removed even when Tesla talked to the hotel (which would have been useless anyways as the hotel obviously does not want to try to contact the owners and towing does not appear to be an option as it is in other locations).

The owner can always contact their ownership/customer experience representative after the fact by phone or email and tell them to send an official complaint about the issue. This is a separate channel from the dedicated line about superchargers. This is ALWAYS an option no matter what the complaint and should always be tried before going to more "extreme" measures. Not sure where you get the idea that complaints will just get ignored and not even recorded.

If you think about it a bit deeper, people have even successfully complained about local Model S owners using stations daily, or about general wait times, and Tesla have responded with changes to the stations (Gilroy). And that is only a "courtesy" issue (where the car occupying the space is a fellow Model S owner). I see no reason that Tesla would ignore this if it's as serious as you are making it out to be.

 

[Teo]

It is just as likely the owner is unhappy because the cars were not immediately removed even when Tesla talked to the hotel

That's possible but not probable.
1) The hotel said they don't care (check opening message)
2) The person said "Tesla wasn't helpful at all" (this is not a description of Tesla trying to help but not succeeding quickly enough)
3) The FAQ says don't contact Tesla if the stall is not dedicated. In Ellensburg none of the stalls are.

Not sure where you get the idea that complaints will just get ignored and not even recorded.

When I said I don't think they keep records I wasn't talking about a follow up compliant after you have the problem which will be far less. I was talking about calls to the phone line when you have the problem which will be more in number of calls. The FAQ page says don't call us if shared parking. This means Tesla doesn't want to collect data about ICE problems in stations like Ellensburg.

If somebody decides to call Tesla or the hotel to find out more, here are the phone numbers and a few possible questions to ask.

1) Does Tesla contact the host if somebody can't charge in Ellensburg?
2) Does Tesla have records of how many times people reported they couldn't charge in Ellensburg?
3) Does the hotel or Tesla know what time of day and what day of the week the stalls are more likely to be occupied?
4) Is the problem in Ellensburg getting worse?

------------------------

If a non-Tesla vehicle is blocking a ‘dedicated’ Supercharger stall, please notify Tesla at (877) 798-3752

------------------------

Holiday Inn Express Ellensburg
[email protected]
Hotel Front Desk
1-509-962 94 00
Holiday Inn Express Hotels Ellensburg - Ellensburg, Washington

 

[bonnie]

3) The FAQ says don't contact Tesla if the stall is not dedicated.

Nowhere in the FAQs does it say that. Absolutely no place. That is YOUR interpretation. You state these things as fact and it is not factual. You are misleading people by saying that. Please stop.

 

[golfski]

Nowhere in the FAQs does it say that. Absolutely no place. That is YOUR interpretation. You state these things as fact and it is not factual. You are misleading people by saying that. Please stop.

Come on bonnie, this is why the whole "fanboy" wrap exists. You are so caught up in the argument that YOUR making ridiculous statements. Here is the language that is on Tesla's site. It mentions "dedicated" stalls and "enabled" stalls, but it ONLY states to contact them if a "dedicated" stall is occupied. Any reasonable person can deduce that it implies don't contact them if its not dedicated. I have a problem with the fact they have any "enabled" stalls, they should all be "dedicated" when they are trying to push this is as something we have to pay for (by upgrading to an 85kWh or 60kWh + SC).

A non-Tesla car is parked in a dedicated Supercharger stall, what should I do?

Many Supercharger sites are outfitted with ‘dedicated’ stalls (meant only for Tesla vehicles) and a few ‘enabled’ stalls (which allow for time-restricted general parking). Please be aware of stall signage. If a non-Tesla vehicle is blocking a ‘dedicated’ Supercharger stall, please notify Tesla at (877) 798-3752