Tesla Owners in Alberta

[Han Chen]

That was a fun/short meet! Great to put some names/faces to forum-names .

Sitting in gpetti's seats makes me excited to get mine. I believe Han will be twitching for the next couple of months now as the loooong wait for his car looms!

gpetti and 3s,

It was very gracious of you guys to spend a bit of time on your Family Day to show us your cars. It was a terrible idea on my part though as it's going to make for an even longer wait until April. Spring meet in Canmore!

 

[McMuggets]

Yes, thanks again for showing us your cars! I just got home and couldn't stop talking about it with the wife. I'm 100% sure I'm going with the blue now gpetti, and getting the full wrap.

 

[gpetti]

Yes, thanks again for showing us your cars! I just got home and couldn't stop talking about it with the wife. I'm 100% sure I'm going with the blue now gpetti, and getting the full wrap.

Great to meet you guys. Always love to show/talk about the car. Hope your kids weren't too cold - the wind was bitter.

 

[3s-a-charm]

Fun trip to Canmore this weekend. Driving fast we ended up with about 25% charge remaining after going there and back. Supercharger is not ready yet - all infrastructure there but power not connected nor is the transformer in place. Also the Canmore municipal building is under renovations so that charger is out of commission making for some nail-biting for our first road trip but the trip battery estimation function worked wonders in providing peace-of-mind.

 

[SkiD]

Weather was nice today, so did a Sunday drive from Edmonton to Red Deer and back to set a baseline for .167 firmware and to use a Supercharger for the first time.

Leg 1 - 166.0 km, 40.7 kwh - Avg. Energy 245 Wh/km
Temperature was about -12 in Edmonton and -7 in Red Deer, very slight headwind
Speed set at 110 km/h

Leg 2 - 166.3 km, 33.7 kwh - Avg. Energy 202 Wh/km
Temperature -5 in Red Deer and -2 in Edmonton, slight tailwind
Speed set at 115 km/h

Few screen shots during supercharging

 

[Spurkey]

Weather was nice today, so did a Sunday drive from Edmonton to Red Deer and back to set a baseline for .167 firmware and to use a Supercharger for the first time.

I did the same trip on Sunday, had to drive to Calgary for a meeting. I had pretty similar energy usages, it's interesting to see how little wind it takes to have an effect. These cars really need a pitot tube so you can see when the wind picks up. I've also seen similar amperage drops when using that Supercharger, it can start as high as 360A if your pack is quite empty. I've had the battery cooling fans kick on as well at the beginning, again if the pack is quite low, but eventually they turn off once you get to around 100km of range. I haven't used the SC enough to say specifically when they can turn on/off, I don't doubt the ambient air temperature may also affect that.

 

[m1ker]

Will let you know as I get more info. Apparently for our house Enmax has a 200A service to the meter. From the meter to our panel we have a 100A wire coming in. So all the is needed is to run a thicker gauge cable to carry 200A to our new 200A panel. This will give us enough capacity for two EV's AMD other stuff. I'll post more details as we go through this.

We we had to spend some money 3 years ago when we got our Nissan Leaf (about 2K), but no panel upgrade was needed back then as we only ran a 40A circuit to the EVSE in the garage.

Well our electrician has run into a snag. Apparently we only have 100A service to our meter. Enmax is going to check and let him know if we can upgrade to 200A and what the cost could be. If it's anywhere near what others have mentioned here, we will be dialing back from 80A to something like 50A or possibly 60A.

Is there any way to quickly find out which power box feeds our house (U dear ground not overhead). I haven't been able to find anything on their website.

Thanks all.

 

[3s-a-charm]

Well our electrician has run into a snag. Apparently we only have 100A service to our meter. Enmax is going to check and let him know if we can upgrade to 200A and what the cost could be. If it's anywhere near what others have mentioned here, we will be dialing back from 80A to something like 50A or possibly 60A.

Is there any way to quickly find out which power box feeds our house (U dear ground not overhead). I haven't been able to find anything on their website.

Thanks all.

I think @gpetti had some quotes done for upping his service from the street to the front attached garage. Not cheap - especially because all of the concrete work etc. I feel lucky to have overhead power lines and a garage panel right near the pole.

The City regulations are a little bogus in my opinion. If you get approved to juice up the HPWC to 50A... see if your electrician can rig it to accept 80A and only charge at night when there is low load. If you charge during peak times it may be like running the microwave and hairdryer at the same time LOL. It's electricity... I shouldn't joke.

 

[gpetti]

Well our electrician has run into a snag. Apparently we only have 100A service to our meter. Enmax is going to check and let him know if we can upgrade to 200A and what the cost could be. If it's anywhere near what others have mentioned here, we will be dialing back from 80A to something like 50A or possibly 60A.

Is there any way to quickly find out which power box feeds our house (U dear ground not overhead). I haven't been able to find anything on their website.

Thanks all.

thats crappy!
I wonder why the electrician thought you had 200 amps? Unfortunately the estimate process seems a bit of a sham. I hope you have better luck than me. I'm not aware of any drawings online to help with this.

 

[McMuggets]

I think @gpetti had some quotes done for upping his service from the street to the front attached garage. Not cheap - especially because all of the concrete work etc. I feel lucky to have overhead power lines and a garage panel right near the pole.

The City regulations are a little bogus in my opinion. If you get approved to juice up the HPWC to 50A... see if your electrician can rig it to accept 80A and only charge at night when there is low load. If you charge during peak times it may be like running the microwave and hairdryer at the same time LOL. It's electricity... I shouldn't joke.

I've got to have my service upgraded to 200A as well. Luckily my area already has 200A services and it is just a matter of upgrading my service box in the garage. We are trying to futureproof things a bit though by installing a 80A HPWC as well as a NEMA 14-50 plug for a second future EV if needed. However, this will put me over the 200A, so we will have to figure out some sort of "smart switch" whereby when one car finishes charging the other car plugged into the NEMA 14-50 will start charging and the HPWC will disconnect. All sounds elaborate but its the only way to be able to leave two EV's plugged in at once and pass city code on 200A. Apparently you can pay to have Enmax hang a wire that can do 400A on your block, but I am assuming that's going to cost an arm and a leg. Your neighbours may thank you for paying for that though!

 

[3s-a-charm]

I've got to have my service upgraded to 200A as well. Luckily my area already has 200A services and it is just a matter of upgrading my service box in the garage. We are trying to futureproof things a bit though by installing a 80A HPWC as well as a NEMA 14-50 plug for a second future EV if needed. However, this will put me over the 200A, so we will have to figure out some sort of "smart switch" whereby when one car finishes charging the other car plugged into the NEMA 14-50 will start charging and the HPWC will disconnect. All sounds elaborate but its the only way to be able to leave two EV's plugged in at once and pass city code on 200A. Apparently you can pay to have Enmax hang a wire that can do 400A on your block, but I am assuming that's going to cost an arm and a leg. Your neighbours may thank you for paying for that though!

Solution: Buy a second Tesla... only one charger needed!

 

[McMuggets]

Solution: Buy a second Tesla... only one charger needed!

Wait... but you can only plug one Tesla in at a time. I'm ultimately lazy, so I wanted to have the ability to plug in two Tesla's at the same time and not have to run out to the garage to unplug one and then plug in the other. Therein lies the problem... because two Teslas plugged in at the same time would "draw" too much power according to Enmax and they wouldn't pass it unless I had more than 200A service (because of all my appliances as well).

This is why I might have to prove to the City that there is some sort of switching mechanism that when one charger stops juicing one car it will automatically switch off and the other charger will switch on to charge my wife's future Model 3

 

[3s-a-charm]

Wait... but you can only plug one Tesla in at a time. I'm ultimately lazy, so I wanted to have the ability to plug in two Tesla's at the same time and not have to run out to the garage to unplug one and then plug in the other. Therein lies the problem... because two Teslas plugged in at the same time would "draw" too much power according to Enmax and they wouldn't pass it unless I had more than 200A service (because of all my appliances as well).

This is why I might have to prove to the City that there is some sort of switching mechanism that when one charger stops juicing one car it will automatically switch off and the other charger will switch on to charge my wife's future Model 3

Even if you were to spend the entire day driving around Calgary you wouldn't NEED to charge overnight with both cars. My experience has been once every 4-5 days for comfort (I never get below 30% or so then top-up to 70 or 80%). Before owning my Model S I thought I would plug in every night - not the case. I plug in from time to time and get lots of range and no worries now.

 

[McMuggets]

Even if you were to spend the entire day driving around Calgary you wouldn't NEED to charge overnight with both cars. My experience has been once every 4-5 days for comfort (I never get below 30% or so then top-up to 70 or 80%). Before owning my Model S I thought I would plug in every night - not the case. I plug in from time to time and get lots of range and no worries now.

Oh yeah this is true. I didn't think of not plugging it in every night. I guess it's the dogma that "a happy Tesla is one that is always plugged in regularly". Anyhow, long story short we are now going to have my HPWC installed sometime next week as well as a 14-50 outlet that is going to just be used for welding or some other purpose. Not as a car charging outlet.

 

[gpetti]

Wait... but you can only plug one Tesla in at a time. I'm ultimately lazy, so I wanted to have the ability to plug in two Tesla's at the same time and not have to run out to the garage to unplug one and then plug in the other. Therein lies the problem... because two Teslas plugged in at the same time would "draw" too much power according to Enmax and they wouldn't pass it unless I had more than 200A service (because of all my appliances as well).

This is why I might have to prove to the City that there is some sort of switching mechanism that when one charger stops juicing one car it will automatically switch off and the other charger will switch on to charge my wife's future Model 3

This raises a few points that don't reallY make sense to me but firstly, I'm pretty sure that there are devices like the one you mention as I discussed some similar ideas with an Electrician in the past, albeit in BC.
Firstly I think you should talk to an independent electricians about what the code actually says on this topic. Enmax won't be the ones inspecting it anyway and I feel that mostly they seem to be full of advice on what you can't do with very little in then way of helpful ideas. What I don't understand is why one has to provision for everything that could be plugged in. Technically if you went around plugging appliances in to every available socket and then turned on a few appliances you would always be over the 100 amps. Obviously if you add up all the breakers on a breaker box its a lot more than 100 amps. Currently you only have one electric car and having a 240v plug in the garage could be there for a number of reasons. My garage already had a 240v because the house was a show home once upon a time. My HPWC was approved nonetheless. Obviously besides the electrical code there is the reality of whether two cars would actually overload your 100 amp breaker; however that could be managed by staggering charge times etc.
Maybe posting some questions in the HPWC thread would be a good idea. People like flasherz usually have good information about this type of thing as far as general electrical code.

 

[3s-a-charm]

This raises a few points that don't reallY make sense to me but firstly, I'm pretty sure that there are devices like the one you mention as I discussed some similar ideas with an Electrician in the past, albeit in BC.
Firstly I think you should talk to an independent electricians about what the code actually says on this topic. Enmax won't be the ones inspecting it anyway and I feel that mostly they seem to be full of advice on what you can't do with very little in then way of helpful ideas. What I don't understand is why one has to provision for everything that could be plugged in. Technically if you went around plugging appliances in to every available socket and then turned on a few appliances you would always be over the 100 amps. Obviously if you add up all the breakers on a breaker box its a lot more than 100 amps. Currently you only have one electric car and having a 240v plug in the garage could be there for a number of reasons. My garage already had a 240v because the house was a show home once upon a time. My HPWC was approved nonetheless. Obviously besides the electrical code there is the reality of whether two cars would actually overload your 100 amp breaker; however that could be managed by staggering charge times etc.
Maybe posting some questions in the HPWC thread would be a good idea. People like flasherz usually have good information about this type of thing as far as general electrical code.

My electrician spoke to me about this. I figured that a 100A panel would be plenty if I relegated my charging times to at night when nothing else is really on in the home. The code speaks about a specific % use - he had to do a load calculation based on the electronics in the home (oven, lights, outlets, etc) and the code was something like 75% of max capacity so that yes, if you ran everything at once circuits would start tripping but this is not likely the case. They couldn't convince the City that I would follow a rule of only charging at night - hence the increased capacity. He said 100A would be just fine if I only charged at night - and likely even during the day too).

Interestingly... the codes for the HPWC are different than any other EV charger where you may not pass even with the proper electrical as you may need additional ventilation in the garage! The HPWC specifically addresses this on the label printed on it but the City inspector wanted proof that no additional venting would be required in the garage.

I like your idea of just installing an additional outlet for "welding" as that should future-proof you.

 

[Han Chen]

...

This is why I might have to prove to the City that there is some sort of switching mechanism that when one charger stops juicing one car it will automatically switch off and the other charger will switch on to charge my wife's future Model 3

I found this on the forum a while ago: http://evsellc.com/ev-powershare.shtml

I'm not sure if it is available or approved for use in Canada though. I called them and left a message a while ago but never heard back and I never followed up.

 

[gpetti]

My electrician spoke to me about this. I figured that a 100A panel would be plenty if I relegated my charging times to at night when nothing else is really on in the home. The code speaks about a specific % use - he had to do a load calculation based on the electronics in the home (oven, lights, outlets, etc) and the code was something like 75% of max capacity so that yes, if you ran everything at once circuits would start tripping but this is not likely the case. They couldn't convince the City that I would follow a rule of only charging at night - hence the increased capacity. He said 100A would be just fine if I only charged at night - and likely even during the day too).

Interestingly... the codes for the HPWC are different than any other EV charger where you may not pass even with the proper electrical as you may need additional ventilation in the garage! The HPWC specifically addresses this on the label printed on it but the City inspector wanted proof that no additional venting would be required in the garage.

I like your idea of just installing an additional outlet for "welding" as that should future-proof you.

I had some kick back about the venting too and I looked up the code with help from someone on TMC. It is designed for battery charging systems where you have something like lead acid batteries that give off some potentially explosive vapors. As long as the charging unit and or the car state ventilation not required then it's fine. Not sure why my electrician didn't look this up as they originally just told me I needed ventilation to pass the city inspection.

 

[McMuggets]

I had some kick back about the venting too and I looked up the code with help from someone on TMC. It is designed for battery charging systems where you have something like lead acid batteries that give off some potentially explosive vapors. As long as the charging unit and or the car state ventilation not required then it's fine. Not sure why my electrician didn't look this up as they originally just told me I needed ventilation to pass the city inspection.

I have heard about this too. But I think it depends on who the electrician talks to from the City inspectors. They assume all cars are created equal and apparently the first Volts (correct me if I am wrong Volt owners....) needed venting in their garages. Some inspectors took that as an "All EV's need venting in the garage to charge" rule, and hence the confusion today.

Anyhow, upgrading to 200A service is not very expensive for my area since we already have it and it is a matter of doing up a new panel in my house. At least now I know I'll likely have enough juice for potentially two Teslas!

 

[Doug_G]

No Volts require venting.

If the car tells the EVSE that it requires venting, and no venting is available, the EVSE is required to refuse to charge.

In fact no EVSE built today supports venting.