Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey... hopefully not for long!

[SteveG3]

like I noted many pages ago, you are probably correct, but it will be a long, tedious and costly undertaking. while the public detests the concept of lobbying the guys who have the power to alter the business is conducted seem to not be very inclined to end the way the lobbyists do their thing.

apv, I appreciate the humor in your new signature comment... it is funny, and good to see you can have a laugh about things.

didn't realize you'd agreed that this is probably the ultimate course this will run.

to be clear though, Tesla need not take on and overthrow the whole lobbying system (of course, that would be nice), they just need such an overwhelming public show of support (I wouldn't be surprised if it reaches 90+%) to counter the impact of the lobbying that will almost certainly continue to be in place two years from now. so Tesla's task will take resources, time and money, but nothing like the resources it would take to overthrow the lobbying system.

 

[Ralph K]

Does this mean I’ll get my Model X sooner? I can joke about New Jersey because I use to live there. I was an engineer installing one hour photo labs in the 80s. A union electrician would be waiting for me when I arrived to install our equipment into a NJ mall. He would pull the union card and tell me I could not install the equipment since I was not with the union! I would say OK install it, then i would let the owner know of the situation. We are talking about a machine which arrives in 2 separate pieces which needs to be wired together. The union electrician has no clue how or what to do but I’m prevented from doing my job because of him. How did we resolve this? The owner paid the electrician to watch me do the work! Next the plumbers union showed up preventing me from running plastic, gravity feed lines from the tanks to the equipment, this is not pluming by their standers but again the owner had to pay this guy to watch me work? What could the owner do? He is losing money every day he is not in operation. I believe it’s called extortion, that seems to be how that state is run and it’s sad and needs to be overhauled.
You still can’t pump your own gas in New Jersey…..maybe the gas pumpers union is behind this Too!

 

[apvbguy]

You still can’t pump your own gas in New Jersey…..maybe the gas pumpers union is behind this Too!

Isn't life in the NE part of the US great?
actually as far as I am concerned the NJ ban on self serve fuel is great!
would you really want to get out of your car in inclement weather and get all dirty and smelly pumping your own fuel?
in addition there are almost no security issues at NJ gas stations like you sometimes find here in FLA at the self serve places

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apv, I appreciate the humor in your new signature comment... it is funny, and good to see you can have a laugh about things.

I never got my knickers knotted about anything, others may have. at the end of the day we are all on the same side. just because I didn't play the group think thing doesn't mean I am anyone's adversary

 

[hockeythug]

The rationale given for the regulation change that requires auto companies to sell through dealers is that it ensures “consumer protection”. If you believe this, Gov. Christie has a bridge closure he wants to sell you!

:smile:

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/people-new-jersey

 

[Room_A113]

I think Tesla may have to edit their "Tesla Model S Cross Country Rally" video.
At 2:09 it says: "WELCOME TO NEW JERSEY"! Yeah, right. (I was riding along with the Tesla entourage in my Volt.)

http://youtu.be/AX90oDuwhPk

 

[apvbguy]

:smile:

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/people-new-jersey

you beat me to it.
elon needs to move in a more constructive manner to effect the changes to the sales environment in NJ and other states that he seeks

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I think Tesla may have to edit their "Tesla Model S Cross Country Rally" video.
At 2:09 it says: "WELCOME TO NEW JERSEY"! Yeah, right. (I was riding along with the Tesla entourage in my Volt.)

mmm, unusual routing why did they come in from the south?
FWIW teslas are certainly welcome in NJ, they just can't be sold to you by tesla

 

[JohnQ]

Please correct where I'm wrong here:
The statute defines a motor vehicle franchisor as someone who manufactures and sells motor vehicles, not as someone who has an agreement with a franchisee. Therefore, by definition in the statute, Tesla is a franchisor. As a franchisor, per the statute, Tesla must sell vehicles through a franchisee and, in the absence of any franchisee, was operating via a special exemption/license which has been revoked.

Given the above, and in the absence of an extension of the exemption, Tesla only has two choices in NJ. Either change the legislation to redefine a motor vehicle franchisor or challenge the statute in state court. I would be curious if there is a legal opinion (not a layperson's opinion, please) on whether a court case might be successful when addressing the, in my opinion, overly broad definition of a franchisor or if redrafting the legislation is the only realistic solution.

EDIT: See BradleyBang's post for his listing of the relevant parts of the statute (way upstream)

 

[SteveG3]

I think Elon did a tremendous job with this blog. extremely thorough, readable, coverage from the historical rational of how the laws came to exist to the practical realities for NJ Tesla consumers after April 1. he managed to be cheeky and let off some frustration towards the Christie administration, but in a way that I don't think will alienate anyone.

 

[JohnQ]

:smile:

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/people-new-jersey

Is it true, as Elon claims, that the law was changed or is it a case where the law is being enforced and Tesla's exemption was discontinued? I ask as the relevant statute is quite clear in its definition of a franchisor, even if that definition is illogical. Was that definition changed recently?

 

[xhawk101]

Perhaps it maybe a consideration for tesla to consider selling only on the website that way they can say nationwide they are only selling the on the website and avoid having to have this battle all together. They don't need to sell at their own stores at this point. However I suppose at some point in the future with the 3rd generation this might be more of a concern for high volume. One of the best ways to sell a product is for people to believe that it is hard to obtain so this will have the opposite effect that the dealers would be interested in having it would seem.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

.../ elon needs to move in a more constructive manner to effect the changes to the sales environment in NJ and other states that he seeks

It seems perfectly constructive to me.

 

[apvbguy]

Is it true, as Elon claims,

I think this has lept into the realm of legalese semantics.
the NJ MVC issued a "new interpretation" of a statute that already existed. they did not create or enact any new law.
to a non lawyer that might be incorrectly referred to as a change in the law but in govspeak, and I am not an attorney nor elected official, this was just an interpretation for enforcement purposes.
the NJ MVC does not have the power to repeal or enact laws, the can issue and or interpret laws that are on the books.

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It seems perfectly constructive to me.

everyone is certainly entitled to have an opinion

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Perhaps it maybe a consideration for tesla to consider selling only on the website that way they can say nationwide they are only selling the on the website and avoid having to have this battle all together.

this is certainly a very viable option that I am sure is being looked into.

 

[Krugerrand]

Perhaps it maybe a consideration for tesla to consider selling only on the website that way they can say nationwide they are only selling the on the website and avoid having to have this battle all together. They don't need to sell at their own stores at this point. However I suppose at some point in the future with the 3rd generation this might be more of a concern for high volume. One of the best ways to sell a product is for people to believe that it is hard to obtain so this will have the opposite effect that the dealers would be interested in having it would seem.

You've forgotten the main purpose of Tesla stores - education. The stores are not there to specifically 'sell' cars, indeed, there are no 'sales tactics' utilized by Tesla employees, no commission sales etc... The stores first and foremost educate the public about the advantages of pure electric vehicles. Without stores to provide that information and offer test drives Tesla can't do that. The very business model of not having dealerships in the first place was to offer an environment where people could learn about electric cars.

 

[JohnQ]

I think this has lept into the realm of legalese semantics.
the NJ MVC issued a "new interpretation" of a statute that already existed. they did not create or enact any new law.
to a non lawyer that might be incorrectly referred to as a change in the law but in govspeak, and I am not an attorney nor elected official, this was just an interpretation for enforcement purposes.
the NJ MVC does not have the power to repeal or enact laws, the can issue and or interpret laws that are on the books.

But it does matter. There's posturing on both sides and Elon's just as wrong about claiming that the law has been changed as the NJCAR is about dealerships being my best friend. I recognize that PR battles always play fast and loose with the truth; I simply want to know what the truth is. And, based on what I've seen, it's that the MVC has decided to enforce a literal reading of the statute (regardless of whether that was under pressure from NJCAR or the governor's office).

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

everyone is certainly entitled to have an opinion

Since we both live in fairly democratic countries – thankfully yes. And I’m going to side with Elon, Tesla management and ~99.9% of Tesla Motors Club on this one.

 

[apvbguy]

But it does matter. There's posturing on both sides and Elon's just as wrong about claiming that the law has been changed as the NJCAR is about dealerships being my best friend. I recognize that PR battles always play fast and loose with the truth; I simply want to know what the truth is. And, based on what I've seen, it's that the MVC has decided to enforce a literal reading of the statute (regardless of whether that was under pressure from NJCAR or the governor's office).

I would agree with you, many others on this forum would take you out to the woodshed for having heretical thoughts in the church of elon, notice how low my rating dropped

 

[Krugerrand]

I would agree with you, many others on this forum would take you out to the woodshed for having heretical thoughts in the church of elon, notice how low my rating dropped

Give it a rest.

 

[dsm363]

I would agree with you, many others on this forum would take you out to the woodshed for having heretical thoughts in the church of elon, notice how low my rating dropped

There is probably a reason for that. Have you ever had trouble like this on other forums?

 

[JohnQ]

I would agree with you, many others on this forum would take you out to the woodshed for having heretical thoughts in the church of elon, notice how low my rating dropped

Nothing heretical in my statement. I've found the forum to be tolerant provided there's a degree of respect. I focused on the specific of the law because it defines what Tesla can do to remedy the situation ... either legislative pressure or legal remedy. I expect Elon is simply pissed because he thought he had more time to resolve the situation and someone stole a march on him.

 

[apvbguy]

Since we both live in fairly democratic countries – thankfully yes. And I’m going to side with Elon, Tesla management and ~99.9% of Tesla Motors Club on this one.

you can choose whom you think is right but there is one rule that you cannot change, the golden rule! do you know the golden rule?
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_'He_who_has_the_gold_makes_the_rules'_mean?#slide=1
and once again I remind you that the US is not a democracy

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Nothing heretical in my statement. I've found the forum to be tolerant provided there's a degree of respect. I focused on the specific of the law because it defines what Tesla can do to remedy the situation ... either legislative pressure or legal remedy. I expect Elon is simply pissed because he thought he had more time to resolve the situation and someone stole a march on him.

I focused strictly on the law and the decision and the machinations of the game in NJ in a very unbiased unemotional and factual way. and we now go back to how I got myself in trouble around here because I noted how elon or his people really screwed the pooch on this issue because of their poor preparation and poor planning.
if they would have ceded some of the groundwork to a local professional the outcome may have been the same but then again it could have been different. Now all elon can do is huff and puff and quite frankly IMHO that will not ingratiate himself with the poohbahs running the show (scam) in trenton.