Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[dqd88]

Tesla or Elon Musk need to do something right away. If shorts get their way, some of the most loyal Tesla supporters will be permanently hurt. These people have large concentrated positions and many used leverage. They are likely to be forced to close positions. Stock movement has momentum. I think the only way that can help the situation is a strategic partner decides to buy a large stake from the open market. If some companies/investors want to acquire a 20% stake, and is approved by Tesla, this is a great opportunity to get a lot of shares at a good price. If this doesn't happen right away, many shareholders will suffer permanently, especially those who used margin at much higher level.

Loyal supporters will be hurt - true
Many used leverage - yikes. that is/was unadvisable. They do so at their own risk. Elon would not approve. He only wants long term people on board.

What if a million retail investors pool their money, say $10k each into a fund. That fund will have much power. $10B. It could probably cause a short squeeze and then make those shares unavailable for shorting. A pooled fund would be much more powerful than the individuals because of the concentrated power.

 

[BornToFly]

The lower the SP gets, the higher the probability of some announcement that causes a 10%+ gap up in after hours. I can imagine a go-private at 300. I know Elon said he didn't want to screw over the investors that can't own part of a private company, but he isn't going to let the company get hurt by the market either. And I don't believe he won't take it private at 300 just because he originally wanted to take it private at 420 - completely different situation now. At some point, he is going to take his ball and go home. My plan is to very slowly sell off my shares as the price drops, and be ready to jump back in immediately. Hopefully I will lower my cost basis without missing the boat.

 

[StealthP3D]

The most important rule is actually "Don't lose money". My rule #5 is designed to force me to obey this rule.

I agree with the rule "don't lose money" but not every investment or trade is going to be profitable. I disagree that using the profit from one trade to enter a speculative position on another trade can prevent you from losing money. Once you have a profit on one closed out position, that is money you have made and you are free to do what you want with it. But don't fool yourself that you won't be losing money if you put it into a speculative position that loses money! As I said, the source of your investment capital is irrelevant, all that matters are your overall returns.

 

[StealthP3D]

The lower the SP gets, the higher the probability of some announcement that causes a 10%+ gap up in after hours. I can imagine a go-private at 300.

I agree with #1 but there is no way there will be a "go private" announcement (at $300 or any other price).

 

[Skryll]

Good point Fred!

Running 24/7 in every gyms locker room, sports bar, ...

 

[dqd88]

I'm wondering, if in theory, a bunch of retail investors could pool enough money to buy all the open shares.
For ex, to raise $30B, we would need 2 million people to each put in $15k. I would think this is possible.

So basically what I'm trying to understand - is there enough money in all retail investors to actually buy Tesla Inc?

 

[TradingInvest]

The last thing we need is for TSLA to plan their business moves based upon someone who unwisely used margin to buy shares they couldn't afford!

I agree. However I do think TSLA has a lot of investors with concentrated position because of all sorts of reasons. When these guys get wiped out, they will not be able to support Tesla and Tesla products down the road. It's relevant to Tesla's business. Some people put their lifetime saving of 10 million dollars into this stock, others put 800 dollars into this stock, of course the two will think differently.

I always think it's a mistake that Elon said Tesla will likely to become a trillion dollar company in 10 years. A recession in the middle could wipe out lots of his believers. Instead he should say what I have been saying: "Follow sound investment rules, diversification is important, don't use leverage."

Companies should always give conservative forecast, then try to beat the forecast.

 

[StealthP3D]

What if a million retail investors pool their money, say $10k each into a fund. That fund will have much power. $10B. It could probably cause a short squeeze and then make those shares unavailable for shorting. A pooled fund would be much more powerful than the individuals because of the concentrated power.

That would be illegal market manipulation.

I do believe it's what the bears are essentially doing, but with a wink and a nod, not any highly organized collusion and not with a pooled fund. It's just a matter of a bunch of people with similar beliefs spreading the "religion" that when the time is right, we will all act. To be fair, this happens on the bull side too but it's even less organized.

 

[Dangleitus]

I'm wondering, if in theory, a bunch of retail investors could pool enough money to buy all the open shares.
For ex, to raise $30B, we would need 2 million people to each put in $15k. I would think this is possible.

So basically what I'm trying to understand - is there enough money in all retail investors to actually buy Tesla Inc?

you mean like the Investment pools of the late 1920s; which later became the reasonfor writing the SEC act of 1934? Yeah. Not going to happen.

 

[StealthP3D]

I always think it's a mistake that Elon said Tesla will likely to become a trillion dollar company in 10 years. A recession in the middle could wipe out lots of his believers. Instead he should say what I have been saying: "Follow sound investment rules, diversification is important, don't use leverage."

When Musk voiced his opinion on the future value of Telsa, I think you misunderstood it as investment advice. It was not, it was simply his opinion on his company's future.

The few times I have heard Musk give investment advice, especially regarding Tesla, he preached extreme caution. Every time!

One of those times was when he said (something to the effect of) "if you don't like volatility, don't buy TSLA".

 

[MarcusMaximus]

I'm wondering, if in theory, a bunch of retail investors could pool enough money to buy all the open shares.
For ex, to raise $30B, we would need 2 million people to each put in $15k. I would think this is possible.

So basically what I'm trying to understand - is there enough money in all retail investors to actually buy Tesla Inc?

One problem: The stock price isn't static. If you raise $30bn and start accumulating all the shares, those are shares that are being bought but not sold. Available supply decreases, causing price to increase. On top of that, people see the price going up and will likely pile on, buying more to ride that wave. You'll never get close to half the float.

 

[TradingInvest]

I'm wondering, if in theory, a bunch of retail investors could pool enough money to buy all the open shares.
For ex, to raise $30B, we would need 2 million people to each put in $15k. I would think this is possible.

So basically what I'm trying to understand - is there enough money in all retail investors to actually buy Tesla Inc?

This will not work. Have you ever heard that shorts could sell more shares than the total float? I know it's illegal, but who can find out about it when there are so many entities lending shares?

One idea might work is that someone creates a mutual fund that concentrates in EV companies. The biggest holding by far is TSLA. Buyers of this fund is essentially investing into TSLA, then this mutual fund doesn't lend shares. As the fund grows to very large size, shorts will not be able to borrow shares.

 

[dqd88]

you mean like the Investment pools of the late 1920s; which later became the reasonfor writing the SEC act of 1934? Yeah. Not going to happen.

It would seem to me the structure would be similar to a mutual fund or hedge fund. How is pooling money into a fund illegal?

 

[dqd88]

One problem: The stock price isn't static. If you raise $30bn and start accumulating all the shares, those are shares that are being bought but not sold. Available supply decreases, causing price to increase. On top of that, people see the price going up and will likely pile on, buying more to ride that wave. You'll never get close to half the float.

That's fine. We wouldn't have to buy the whole thing. But at least we'd own a good chunk of it. And if SP drops we can decide to buy more.

 

[dqd88]

This will not work. Have you ever heard that shorts could sell more shares than the total float? I know it's illegal, but who can find out about it when there are so many entities lending shares?

One idea might work is that someone create a mutual fund that concentrates in EV companies. The biggest holding by far is TSLA. Buyers of this fund is essentially investing into TSLA, then this mutual fund doesn't lend shares. As the fund grows to very large size, shorts will not be able to borrow shares.

Well, if "the fund" bought a majority of shares, the fund would not lend those out to shorts. So it would decrease the supply of shares available to be shorted. Relying on individuals like myself won't get 'er done as we are not sophisticated enough on our own. We are just laymen.
I like the idea.

 

[anthonyj]

Stock is reminding me of GoPro >.> Larry Ellison pls save us. Let’s see those Form 4’s tonight

 

[Pras]

Stock is reminding me of GoPro >.> Larry Ellison pls save us. Let’s see those Form 4’s tonight

You have to compare the products. A camera vs a car (much different). The size of revenue. Yes. The stock price action can look like so many other stocks...why not a natural gas E&P stock, or steel manufacturer or snap ...but all are different cases. Just the intellectual capital in Tesla manufacturing plant is of great value. Nobody is even talking about Tesla software.

 

[guidooo]

So basically what I'm trying to understand - is there enough money in all retail investors to actually buy Tesla Inc?

According to the following link there should be about 45-55 million "self directed equity retail investors" in the US. Whatever that means... Guess that says that IF every "self directed equity retail investor" holds 4 TSLA shares into eternity and don't lend them out all TSLA shares are off the market. And 45-55 million investors can have a huge party at the annual shareholder meeting. Lucky for some market entities most of those 50 million US investors appear not interested in owning TSLA.

https://www.quora.com/How-large-is-...e-investors-and-the-amount-of-assets-invested

Relying on individuals like myself won't get 'er done as we are not sophisticated enough on our own. We are just laymen.

Me don't understand... How sophisticated is it to buy a few shares, don't lend them out and have a voting party at a shareholder meeting every once in a while ?

 

[MarcusMaximus]

You guys should check out Elon's Twitter account. He is handing out BTCs?

Thats a fake account.

 

[Unpilot]

You guys should check out Elon's Twitter account. He is handing out BTCs?

GO AWAY TROLL