Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Fact Checking]

* The AP testing programme announced in late September was for 100-200 employees.

There was a second, larger round of employees enrolled in FSD beta testing, in late December, to "hundreds" of employees, with a $5k price reduction, free EAP and FSD - with the condition to beta test and to take delivery in Q4.

 

[Fact Checking]

* Lower ASP is guidance. Guidance is also to maintain margins at 20% despite the lower ASP. Model 3 margins is of course the billion dollar question here.

Lower ASP is a fact of Tesla delivering around 50% of Model 3's in the Medium Range version, which is RWD and had an ASP of $47k.

In Q3 more than 70% of deliveries were AWD, IIRC, with a Q3 ASP of $59k-ish.

This brings down Q4 ASP by way of plain arithmetics.

 

[avoigt]

Sigh. I love the fact that a Model 3 is 10x cheaper to run than an ICE car. However, I don't think it's necessary to embellish this to 16x (based on your gas guzzling Porsche) and base European demand on this personal data point. Embellished arguments are more vulnerable to be taken apart by FUDsters etc, which does not help the cause.

I'm a committed Tesla fan and Model S driver, our house is running on solar energy and I would never drive an ICE car again. Not sure which part of my replies made you think I disagree that BEVs are lower in total costs. Because I certainly don't.

Okay, I hear you on the 16 times part but lets put this to bed as it does not add value if its 16 times, 2 times or € 20,000. Still my arguments stand and so far FUDsetrs have not managed to use my argumentation on any social boards. As long as you have sources and facts to back your points they usually disappear quickly as most of those guys like to put wild statement out that they cannot prove.

The only part that matters is that it gets now more and more obvious that in particular in Europe the cost advantage is in the premium class segment high and over time that will also apply to the mid market segment Tesla will sell into hopefully starting 2nd half of 2019.

Appreciate your support and contribution this forum and movement so lets move on.

 

[NicoV]

Sigh. I love the fact that a Model 3 is 10x cheaper to run than an ICE car. However, I don't think it's necessary to embellish this to 16x (based on your gas guzzling Porsche) and base European demand on this personal data point. Embellished arguments are more vulnerable to be taken apart by FUDsters etc, which does not help the cause.

I'm a committed Tesla fan and Model S driver, our house is running on solar energy and I would never drive an ICE car again. Not sure which part of my replies made you think I disagree that BEVs are lower in total costs. Because I certainly don't.

I think it is interesting to quantify the TCO benefit to something that is easy to understand by people that don’t think of Tesla 24/7. My rule of thumb is that a Model 3 saves about 7K euro per 100K km, compared to a fairly efficient gasoline ICE (6 or 7l/100km), purely based on fuel cost savings. I can amend that now saying if you’re interested in driving a Porsche like @avoigt , it will probably more like 15K euro per 100km. When I explained it like that to my neighbours (who are Tesla sceptics), the discussion quickly shifts from ‘a Tesla is so expensive’ to ‘you still have to pay that upfront’. Meaning that they can see the savings for their situation, and start thinking how to finance it.

With @avoigt’s use case in mind, what would you like to drive (for the same money): a old fashioned Porsche, or a Model 3 Performance that runs rings around the Porsche and saves you 15K euro per 100K km in fuel alone.

 

[FrANce]

I think it is interesting to quantify the TCO benefit to something that is easy to understand by people that don’t think of Tesla 24/7. My rule of thumb is that a Model 3 saves about 7K euro per 100K km, compared to a fairly efficient gasoline ICE (6 or 7l/100km), purely based on fuel cost savings. I can amend that now saying if you’re interested in driving a Porsche like @avoigt , it will probably more like 15K euro per 100km. When I explained it like that to my neighbours (who are Tesla sceptics), the discussion quickly shifts from ‘a Tesla is so expensive’ to ‘you still have to pay that upfront’. Meaning that they can see the savings for their situation, and start thinking how to finance it.

Hope your Tesla sceptic neighbors will convert one day soon!

With @avoigt’s use case in mind, what would you like to drive (for the same money): a old fashioned Porsche, or a Model 3 Performance that runs rings around the Porsche and saves you 15K euro per 100K km in fuel alone.

That would be an excellent question for a Porsche owner. Personally, I'm happy with what I've got.

 

[avoigt]

Galis initiative to democratize shareholders ability to ask questions on the "say" platform gives a nice overview what investors are mainly interested in. Amount of shares in ownership are used as a question ranking and obviously large shareholders or many small ones can move the needle.

I would not be surprised if those questions top of the list will be answered from Elon as they represent likely more Retail investors and we all remember when he gave Gali the opportunity last year to ask a lot of questions. Elon likes small Retail investors who support the mission and Gali coordinated with Tesla before he started 'say'.

Here is the list as of now:

SEAN M. ASKS

Owners, many of them with large followings online, are becoming very vocal about Tesla's worsening customer service experience with delivery, service, and repair. This has a severe impact on sales and returning sales. What are you doing to change this growing negative reputation?

42,873 SHARES
158 VOTES

ROBERT M. ASKS

How are feeling about demand right now across the product line? Is 500k-700k units at ~$42k ASP still a realistic annual target for Model 3, even considering the impact of Model Y on demand? Do you continue to see S/X ~100k annually?

29,543 SHARES
42 VOTES

ANUARBEK I. ASKS

If and when will Tesla switch Model S & X to 2170 battery cells? What percent range improvement do you expect?

28,163 SHARES
69 VOTES

GALILEO R. ASKS

Where will the Tesla Semi & Model Y be produced? Can you share a timeline on the expected production ramp of these vehicles?

23,046 SHARES
111 VOTES

SEAN M. ASKS

You have now done away with the 75 kWh Model S and X, making the entry price $94K-$97K. Will you be introducing any new battery variants for the two vehicles in 2019 and will they include 2170 cells?

22,551 SHARES
37 VOTES

ROBERT M. ASKS

In December, Bloomberg reported that Tesla notified holders of the $920M convertible notes due in March that half would be exercised with stock and half would be paid in cash. Can you comment on the payment plan for those convertibles and the accuracy of that report?

18,499 SHARES
34 VOTES


Say

 

[Buckminster]

Firstly, I'm not sure the 6.6s 0-100 acceleration is true, the German press is reporting "less than 6 seconds":

Audi e-tron (2018): Reichweite, Preis, Test, Infos, Fahrbericht - autobild.de

"Zwei E-Maschinen mit insgesamt 300 kW (408 PS) und bis zu 660 Nm Drehmoment sollen den Audi e-tron in weniger als sechs Sekunden auf 100 km/h beschleunigen. Die Höchstgeschwindigkeit liegt bei 200 km/h. Bei entspannter Fahrweise treibt die hintere der beiden Asynchronmaschinen den e-tron an, beim Segeln sind die beiden Motoren frei von Schleppmomenten. Rekuperiert der e-tron, dann werden beide E-Maschinen zum Aufladen der Batterie benutzt. Dabei wird der Energiespeicher sowohl beim Gaswegnehmen als auch beim Bremsen befüllt. Per Elektronik entscheidet der Audi, ob ein Bremsvorgang über die konventionelle Bremse oder über die beiden Generatoren erfolgt – diese speisen die Batterie bis zu einer Verzögerung von 0,3 g. Darüber helfen die elektrohydraulisch betätigten Radbremsen mit. Der Rekuperationsgrad lässt sich in drei Stufen am Lenkrad einstellen. Anzeigen im Kombiinstrument informieren den Fahrer, sobald er seinen Fuß vom Gaspedal nehmen kann, um Energie zu sparen. Berechnet werden diese Hinweise durch Streckendaten, Radarinfos, Kamerabilder und Car-to-X-Informationen."

(Slightly edited Google translation

"Two drive units with a total of 300 kW (408 hp) and up to 660 Nm of torque are expected to accelerate the Audi e-tron to 100 km / h in less than six seconds. The top speed is 200 km/h. In relaxed driving, the rear of the two asynchronous motors drives the e-tron, while cruising, the two engines are free of drag torque. When the e-tron recuperates, both drive units are used to recharge the battery. In this case, the energy storage is filled both when taking the foot from the accelerator and when braking. Via electronics, the Audi decides whether to brake using the conventional brake or via the two generators - these feed the battery up to a delay of 0.3 g. The electrohydraulically operated wheel brakes help with this. The recuperation rate can be adjusted in three steps on the steering wheel. Indicators in the instrument cluster inform the driver as soon as he can take his foot off the gas pedal to save energy. These indications are calculated by route data, radar information, camera images and car-to-x information."​

If top speed is indeed only 200 km/h then this means that acceleration might already be somewhat painful at 140-150 km/h - but this depends on the exact gearing they are using.

The worst part of that is that this will perform somewhat poorly at highway speeds, overtaking and simply cruising on mountainous terrain. Especially on the German Autobahn you WANT to overtake dynamically even if you are driving only at ~120-140 kmh, because there's always very fast cars you don't want to get in the way of, and there's always slower trucks as well that force you into the inner lane, cruising at 80-90 kmh.

Does anyone know what the e-tron's true actual acceleration is at German highway speeds, compared to the Model 3 and the Model X?

So unless the 6,6s is sandbagged and the real number is something like 5.5s I'm not sure what Audi's game plan is there:

• If Audi wants to position the e-tron as a 'city car' then the form factor and price is wrong (too large, too expensive),
• if Audi wants to position the e-tron as a family car good for road trips then the acceleration and range is probably a bit too low for that weight class.

Maybe they are simply trying to position it slightly cheaper than the entry price Model X, which is currently 109,500€ for the entry level Model X 100D. In that sense the e-tron's 80,000€ entry price is more than competitive, especially if it's list MSRP that leaves a few thousand Euros of negotiation space.

But the Model Y would kill it dead, and maybe even a Model X with a 95k € entry price. It's very interesting that Tesla decided to pull the 75D exactly when competitors are introducing new models in that price range. I'm not sure what Tesla's game plan is there.

6.6 seconds is ample for the majority of buyers. Tesla's are so quick that they have distorted our expectations. e-tron will fail on other more critical points. Lack of SCs & cost are enough reasons to not buy an e-tron. Many will buy the M3 or stick with an A4 or A6 for the time being if they do any research.

 

[KarenRei]

There was a second, larger round of employees enrolled in FSD beta testing, in late December, to "hundreds" of employees, with a $5k price reduction, free EAP and FSD - with the condition to beta test and to take delivery in Q4.

The actual email, which was sent some time between December 25th and December 27th (was published on Electrek on the 27th and dated to "this week". And unlikely the 25th, since that was Christmas).

"Tesla needs a few hundred more internal participants in the full self-driving program, which is about to accelerate significantly with the introduction of the Tesla designed neural net computer (known internally as Hardware 3). This has over 1000% more capability than HW2!

If you elect to participate in the program and provide feedback for improvement to the Autopilot team, the $8,000 cost of FSD will be waived. This is on a first to purchase basis and will close as soon as we have enough participants. this is the last time the offer will be made."

Are you claiming that Tesla sold hundreds of such cars to employees in under a week? I see no indication of a condition to "take delivery in Q4".

The request for buyers of the first 100-200 was announced just before the end of Q3. Why are you wanting to credit both those to Q4, and these to Q4, despite the fact that the requests are almost identical and almost exactly one quarter apart?

 

[KarenRei]

Lower ASP is a fact of Tesla delivering around 50% of Model 3's in the Medium Range version, which is RWD and had an ASP of $47k.

In Q3 more than 70% of deliveries were AWD, IIRC, with a Q3 ASP of $59k-ish.

This brings down Q4 ASP by way of plain arithmetics.

My point is that that the lower ASP is not some sort of "sudden surprise change" that Tesla had to make in the middle of a quarter. Tesla guided for 20% margins taking into account the lower ASP. So it's not correct to pretend like the ASP issue is separate from the margins issue - margins should only be shifted if there's reason to believe that Tesla was too optimistic or pessimistic with its estimate of how good of margins it could achieve at this quarter's ASP.

I should add that Tesla had full control over this quarter's ASP, and repeatedly tuned pricing during it. So a meaningful margin miss would be IMHO quite surprising. Tesla would have to basically decide that they wanted a margins miss (e.g. if they felt that was their only way to boost "flagging demand"). Or if they had done an unexpectedly poor job at tracking their margins.

 

[Hock1]

I wonder what went wrong.

Well, whatever they find out to be a problem at 350kw, they should pass on to Porsche which is "planning" on having 800kw chargers!

 

[avoigt]

6.6 seconds is ample for the majority of buyers. Tesla's are so quick that they have distorted our expectations. e-tron will fail on other more critical points. Lack of SCs & cost are enough reasons to not buy an e-tron. Many will buy the M3 or stick with an A4 or A6 for the time being if they do any research.

For:

- those who like acceleration: the P3 is with 3,5 sec an order of magnitude faster - you will look pretty old in a head to head race
- those who like to drive fast: 200 km/h is very fast but the P3 makes you look old again on a German Autobahn
- those driving long distances: with likely 300 km more realistic range you will look old versus an up to +500km in a 3 LR or S
- those want to go to holiday: fast charging network is very limited and therefore charging in average will take longer
- those need space in the car: the e-tron looks like having a lot of space but thats true for other BEVs as well
- those want to go off road: you will have fun in a e-tron but off road is very much limited in Europe and the X brings the same fun
- those want to use driving assist systems: AP is much more advanced and has more data and closer to L3/L4 than Audi
- those want a well build car w nice interior: Audi will likely be better build with nice interior for some buyers
- those want a silent car and smooth ride: e-tron has likely an edge on noice control and a nice suspension as well
- those want an affordable BEV: prices start right now in Germany at € 108k which is double than the MR (Lemur)
- those want a long lasting BEV: Audi has not yet experience with batteries, degradation may be high
- those want over the air updates: not as of today compares to what Tesla does offer free of charge
- those want a safe car: Tesla is building the most save cars in the world and it will be a challenge for Audi to beat that
- those want the latest innovation: beside the side mirrors which create mixed feedback the e-tron is rather a follower
- those want low cost charging: fast chargers from Audi ask for a flat rate cost model likely in average more expensive than SC
- those want fast delivery: with 40k units its a nice product and you likely have to wait long for that car

So I do see a market for the e-tron and I like very much that they change the perception of people about electro mobility but I do not see where the e-tron has an edge against a Tesla BEV yet.

However much more important is that Audi will gain experience over time and with the money and efforts they put in I am convinced that they will put good BEVs on the road that find their market.

Tesla did not cut it at day one too and we should give Audi the credit for getting in and working on it.

 

[Krugerrand]

Many Camry and Accord buyers are buying Model 3 as are Prius owners who get 50 MPG. Yes the Model 3 is better in most respects but for many people they just want a reliable car. Not a performance car.

Real world experience: A friend with a Prius bought a 3. They just really liked mine (nothing specific - a general feeling/impression) and were getting close to needing a new car. I, of course, told them they’d be a fool not to buy one and we couldn’t be friends any longer if they bought something else. (Yeah, I said it and at least meant that last part a bit - ok, kind of a lot.)

You’re absolutely right that reliability was a top criteria - so far so good. And then something changed after a few weeks of 3 ownership. They started remarking how little (and big) things about the car gave them (unexpected) joy; hardly ever needing to use the brakes, no key/fob, TACC...

Recently (like last week) they told me how much they’d (unexpectedly again) begun to enjoy their otherwise often stressful, sometimes mind-numbing mundane and always tiring commute to and from work. How dreading getting in a car to fight traffic for an hour or 4 twice a day had turned into a peaceful, stress *reducing!*, now looking forward to, part of their day.

Think about that for a second. A non-car person, doesn’t really like to drive and doesn’t really care what they drive because they actually would rather be anywhere else but in a car suddenly starts looking forward to the time they get to spend in their car. Ack!

That’s what a Tesla does; it changes ones life experience in a positive way. And now they own TSLA too.

 

[Fact Checking]

Why are you wanting to credit both those to Q4, and these to Q4, despite the fact that the requests are almost identical and almost exactly one quarter apart?

Why do you think I want to credit Q3 expenses to Q4? I don't want to and never suggested to.

I see no indication of a condition to "take delivery in Q4".

It's in the email:

Are you claiming that Tesla sold hundreds of such cars to employees in under a week?

No, it's a potential downside/headwind.

The price reduction from $47k to $42k and the inclusion of $5k+$6k features for free made this a really good deal: a $56k value car for $42k.

Furthermore, this was described by Elon as the final enrollment, and the Q3 enrollment was smaller. So any employee who spent a quarter regretting not acting upon the Q3 offer fast enough now had a second chance.

No idea how many took the offer.

 

[Buckminster]

- those who like acceleration: the P3 is with 3,5 sec an order of magnitude faster - you will look pretty old in a head to head race
- those who like to drive fast: 200 km/h is very fast but the P3 makes you look old again on a German Autobahn
- those driving long distances: with likely 300 km more realistic range you will look old versus an up to +500km in a 3 LR or S
- those want to go to holiday: fast charging network is very limited and therefore charging in average will take longer
- those need space in the car: the e-tron looks like having a lot of space but thats true for other BEVs as well
- those want to go off road: you will have fun in a e-tron but off road is very much limited in Europe and the X brings the same fun
- those want to use driving assist systems: AP is much more advanced and has more data and closer to L3/L4 than Audi
- those want a well build car w nice interior: Audi will likely be better build with nice interior for some buyers
- those want a silent car and smooth ride: e-tron has likely an edge on noice control and a nice suspension as well
- those want an affordable BEV: prices start right now in Germany at € 108k which is double than the MR (Lemur)
- those want a long lasting BEV: Audi has not yet experience with batteries, degradation may be high
- those want over the air updates: not as of today compares to what Tesla does offer free of charge
- those want a safe car: Tesla is building the most save cars in the world and it will be a challenge for Audi to beat that
- those want the latest innovation: beside the side mirrors which create mixed feedback the e-tron is rather a follower
- those want low cost charging: fast chargers from Audi ask for a flat rate cost model likely in average more expensive than SC
- those want fast delivery: with 40k units its a nice product and you likely have to wait long for that car

So I do see a market for the e-tron and I like very much that they change the perception of people about electro mobility but I do not see where the e-tron has an edge against a Tesla BEV yet.

 

[NicoV]

Fastned also disables their 175 kWh CCS chargers for safety concerns with the cables Fastned

Seems to be a worldwide issue with huber + suhner cables.

 

[Tslynk67]

6.6 seconds is ample for the majority of buyers. Tesla's are so quick that they have distorted our expectations. e-tron will fail on other more critical points. Lack of SCs & cost are enough reasons to not buy an e-tron. Many will buy the M3 or stick with an A4 or A6 for the time being if they do any research.

Guess it depends what you're used to. I had a P85 and when I was looking to buy my Model X I test-drove a 75D and was almost sleeping it was that sloooow. So I had no choice but to get a an XP100D, for everyone's safety, can't have me falling-asleep at the wheel.

 

[Fact Checking]

those who like acceleration: the P3 is with 3,5 sec an order of magnitude faster

Note that Tesla was sandbagging the 3.5 seconds P3 numbers - they meanwhile have corrected it to 3.3 seconds, but with good tires it's actually around 3.1 seconds, stock.

3.1 seconds: very few cars can do that, and none that cost less than 100k€ in Germany newly ordered, AFAIK.

 

[NicoV]

Real world experience: A friend with a Prius

Think about that for a second. A non-car person, doesn’t really like to drive and doesn’t really care what they drive because they actually would rather be anywhere but in a car suddenly starts looking forward to the time they get to spend in their car. Ack!

That’s what a Tesla does; it changes ones life experience in a positive way. And now they own TSLA too.

Are you talking about me? All of that applies to me.
And now a friend of me, who also drives a Prius, is waiting for his Model 3.

 

[Buckminster]

Guess it depends what you're used to. I had a P85 and when I was looking to buy my Model X I test-drove a 75D and was almost sleeping it was that sloooow. So I had no choice but to get a an XP100D, for everyone's safety, can't have me falling-asleep at the wheel.

Yup. Approx 80-90% of UK A4 range is slower than 6.6. Many are 1/3 slower. Don't make me dig out the Nissan Qashqai specs...

Name 0-62mph Top speed CO2 MPG Price
1.4T FSI SE 4dr 8.70secs 130mph 126g/km 53.30mpg £26 265
1.4T FSI SE 5dr 9.00secs 130mph 131g/km 51.40mpg £27 665
1.4T FSI Sport 4dr 8.70secs 130mph 126g/km 53.30mpg £27 215
1.4T FSI Sport 5dr 9.00secs 130mph 131g/km 51.40mpg £28 615
2.0 TDI 190 Quattro S Line 4dr S Tronic 7.20secs 146mph 118g/km 62.80mpg £35 775
2.0 TDI 190 Quattro S Line 5dr S Tronic 7.40secs 143mph 120g/km 61.40mpg £37 175
2.0 TDI 190 Quattro Sport 4dr S Tronic 7.20secs 146mph 114g/km 64.20mpg £34 325
2.0 TDI 190 Quattro Sport 5dr S Tronic 7.40secs 143mph 116g/km 62.80mpg £35 725
2.0 TDI 190 S Line 4dr 7.70secs 149mph 113g/km 64.20mpg £32 815
2.0 TDI 190 S Line 4dr S Tronic 7.70secs 147mph 111g/km 67.30mpg £34 345
2.0 TDI 190 S Line 5dr 7.90secs 146mph 116g/km 62.80mpg £34 215
2.0 TDI 190 S Line 5dr S Tronic 7.90secs 143mph 113g/km 65.70mpg £35 745
2.0 TDI S Line 4dr 8.90secs 137mph 106g/km 70.60mpg £31 915
2.0 TDI S Line 4dr S Tronic 8.70secs 136mph 109g/km 67.30mpg £33 445
2.0 TDI S Line 5dr 9.20secs 133mph 111g/km 67.30mpg £33 315
2.0 TDI S Line 5dr S Tronic 9.00secs 132mph 112g/km 65.70mpg £34 845
2.0 TDI Ultra 190 S Line 4dr 7.70secs 130mph 107g/km 68.90mpg £32 815
2.0 TDI Ultra 190 S Line 4dr S Tronic 7.70secs 130mph 109g/km 67.30mpg £34 345
2.0 TDI Ultra 190 S Line 5dr 7.90secs 130mph 111g/km 67.30mpg £34 215
2.0 TDI Ultra 190 S Line 5dr S Tronic 7.90secs 130mph 112g/km 65.70mpg £35 745
2.0 TDI Ultra 190 Sport 4dr 7.70secs 130mph 102g/km 72.40mpg £31 365
2.0 TDI Ultra 190 Sport 4dr S Tronic 7.70secs 130mph 103g/km 70.60mpg £32 895
2.0 TDI Ultra 190 Sport 5dr 7.90secs 130mph 106g/km 68.90mpg £32 765
2.0 TDI Ultra 190 Sport 5dr S Tronic 7.90secs 130mph 106g/km 68.90mpg £34 295
2.0 TDI Ultra SE 4dr 8.90secs 130mph 99g/km 74.30mpg £29 515
2.0 TDI Ultra SE 4dr S Tronic 8.70secs 130mph 101g/km 72.40mpg £31 045
2.0 TDI Ultra SE 5dr 9.20secs 130mph 104g/km 70.60mpg £30 915
2.0 TDI Ultra SE 5dr S Tronic 9.00secs 130mph 104g/km 70.60mpg £32 445
2.0 TDI Ultra Sport 4dr 8.90secs 130mph 99g/km 74.30mpg £30 465
2.0 TDI Ultra Sport 4dr S Tronic 8.70secs 130mph 101g/km 72.40mpg £31 995
2.0 TDI Ultra Sport 5dr 9.20secs 130mph 104g/km 70.60mpg £31 865
2.0 TDI Ultra Sport 5dr S Tronic 9.00secs 130mph 104g/km 70.60mpg £33 395
2.0T FSI 252 Quattro S Line 4dr S Tronic 5.80secs 155mph 141g/km 45.60mpg £37 345
2.0T FSI 252 Quattro S Line 5dr S Tronic 6.00secs 155mph 144g/km 44.80mpg £38 745
2.0T FSI 252 Quattro Sport 4dr S Tronic 5.80secs 155mph 136g/km 47.90mpg £35 895
2.0T FSI 252 Quattro Sport 5dr S Tronic 6.00secs 155mph 139g/km 46.30mpg £37 295
2.0T FSI S Line 4dr 7.20secs 149mph 130g/km 49.60mpg £30 465
2.0T FSI S Line 4dr S Tronic 7.30secs 149mph 119g/km 53.30mpg £31 995
2.0T FSI S Line 5dr 7.50secs 146mph 135g/km 47.90mpg £31 735
2.0T FSI S Line 5dr S Tronic 7.50secs 148mph 124g/km 52.30mpg £33 395
2.0T FSI SE 4dr 7.20secs 149mph 127g/km 50.40mpg £28 065
2.0T FSI SE 4dr S Tronic 7.30secs 149mph 116g/km 55.40mpg £29 595
2.0T FSI SE 5dr 7.50secs 146mph 132g/km 48.70mpg £29 335
2.0T FSI SE 5dr S Tronic 7.50secs 148mph 121g/km 53.30mpg £30 995
2.0T FSI Sport 4dr 7.20secs 149mph 127g/km 50.40mpg £29 015
2.0T FSI Sport 4dr S Tronic 7.30secs 149mph 116g/km 55.40mpg £30 545
2.0T FSI Sport 5dr 7.50secs 146mph 132g/km 48.70mpg £30 285
2.0T FSI Sport 5dr S Tronic 7.50secs 148mph 121g/km 53.30mpg £31 945
3.0 TDI 272 Quattro S Line 4dr Tip Tronic 5.30secs 155mph 134g/km 55.40mpg £39 265
3.0 TDI 272 Quattro S Line 5dr Tip Tronic 5.40secs 155mph 139g/km 53.30mpg £40 665
3.0 TDI Quattro S Line 4dr S Tronic 6.30secs 155mph 123g/km 60.10mpg £37 495
3.0 TDI Quattro S Line 5dr S Tronic 6.40secs 152mph 126g/km 58.90mpg £38 895
3.0 TDI Quattro Sport 4dr S Tronic 6.30secs 155mph 119g/km 61.40mpg £36 045
3.0 TDI Quattro Sport 5dr S Tronic 6.40secs 152mph 123g/km 60.10mpg £37 445
3.0 TDI S Line 4dr S Tronic 6.60secs 155mph 114g/km 64.20mpg £36 065
3.0 TDI S Line 5dr S Tronic 6.70secs 152mph 117g/km 62.80mpg £37 465
3.0 TDI Sport 4dr S Tronic 6.60secs 155mph 109g/km 67.30mpg £34 615
3.0 TDI Sport 5dr S Tronic 6.70secs 152mph 114g/km 64.20mpg £36 015
S4 Quattro 4dr Tip Tronic 4.70secs 155mph 166g/km 38.70mpg £43 615
S4 Quattro 5dr Tip Tronic 4.90secs 155mph 171g/km 37.70mpg £45 015

 

[KarenRei]

Why do you think I want to credit Q3 expenses to Q4? I don't want to and never suggested to.

It's in the email:

No, it's a potential downside/headwind.

I agree that it's possible that some took delivery in Q4, but its hard to say, given that the enrollment to get such a car was all the way up until midnight on New Years Eve, and after you enroll, you then have to arrange delivery.