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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Your assertion is laughable.

25,000 dead in Italy. 100,000 in Europe,
US deaths approaching 50,00.
Economic losses in the trillions.
Retribution against China would not surprise me.

Gotta wonder if Tesla will be caught in the crossfire.

The subject was China, not the virus. The virus is real despite those weak Republican governors and Trump. That hostility with China is being drummed up as our "Great Satan" is inflated by the administration as a weapon against Biden is self-admitted. That is the rope Trump hopes to hang the Democrats. Designed to appeal to the dope vote.
 
Don't underestimate the power of being the first private company in the history of mankind to transport astronauts to the International Space Station. If done successfully, this will put Elon a very tall pedestal in the eyes of most people. Failure (death) will bring a lot of negative publicity but remember the old saying, "Any publicity is good publicity".

Agree. Although the casual follower of SpaceX is certainly aware that SpaceX will be transporting astronauts to the IIS soon, many have no idea and will amazed over what is taking place in Boca Chica, Texas with the agile development of Starship. A roll coaster ride to be sure but when Starship succeeds with a fully reuseable spacecraft and lands back at the launch location with a "skydiver" maneuver never done before the publicity will be extremely high. Assuming both Starlink and Starship ambitious plans happen Elon's pedestal will be incredibly "tall". If I could invest in SpaceX I might just buy more stock then I own in Tesla. It's an amazing space journey.
Although I still check this forum everyday I've found Starship particularly interesting as I track the daily photos/videos and the discussion. SpaceX Super Heavy/Starship (BFR/BFS) - Earth to Deep Space It's a upcoming show not to be missed which I'm sure will include both spectacular successes and failures as they iterative from one Starship to the next. Prototype #4 this week and next followed by rapid development and testing of prototype #'s 5-10 over the rest of the year. Elon doesn't have to worry about his image.
 
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i agree with hock, it’s not for the faint of heart or those not willing to learn the way they work.
however unlimited downside isn’t exactly true unless you sell calls. even selling puts has a finite cost when stock price = 0

point is that many suggest cash backed stock investing over
- leveraged stock positions
- cash backed options positions, or worse
- leveraged options positions
- or worst, leveraged futures

how about the idiots who bought may oil futures on margin when the price approached 0 yesterday unaware that negative pricing was a ‘thing’ and then it settled at negative 37 or whatever....don’t forget these particular WTI futures have a 1,000 multiplier on the cash- settled contract
and the other has a 500 multiplier
...we’ll see if the cftc and cme let the settlement price hold up

disclosure - i do trade options but not day trading or top expert. however, i have worked closely with them for 17 years. so i’m at a higher level, but not the highest, and not the lowest - and by no means does any of that mean i never lose money trading them. but i also don’t over-extend my means, use margin... or in the few cases i’ve sold puts, i had the cash to buy the 500 shares when i was short 5 contracts.

At the beginning, I took a very in depth online class that lasted for a month, costed $5000 and is 4 hours long per day for 3 times a week. It covers real time trading of the teachers while the students follows along in a training account. It was a quality class that I deemed amazing and took a chance on because online teaching was still new back then and options just started mass roll out to retail investors. I'd be hard pressed to find something like that today with so many frauds teaching. But if you can find one, I highly recommend taking a class.

What I find is really great about options is that it is a really good startup point from very low capital. It is the best value proposition to get from $5000 to about $50 000. It is a skillset that gives you the ability to jump start yourself backup if you ever crash down to 0 and then manages to wage slave you way to $5000 in capital for trading. However after that first $50 000, I find it much more stable to to leverage by borrowing and buying stock instead of using options as leverage where you have no control of "Time". Also, a $5000 loss is easily replaceable by today's wage standard so the loss is not significant however a $50 000 loss is a big one and will take too long to replace through wages. This made buying options the most optimal at that capital range. Just like you see daily on WSB.
 
I don't see it as an "either or" situation. What you see as the market failing to price in next quarter's (or next years) drop in economic productivity, I see as the market averaging the economic activity over a long enough period that it only knocks 15%-23% off the value of the market (depending upon the index) from where we were sitting at the beginning of the year, well before CV had any effect on the market. Those numbers are based on the DJIA (-19.24%), SP500 (-15.23%) and NYSE (-23.00%). In other words, I think the negative changes to economic activity have been fairly priced in if one assumes companies are valued for their expected long-term performance. "Long-term" means different things to different people but the market averages it all out. That said, the market also prices in short-term fear which is why I expect a short-term drop in market valuations which we will (again) quickly recover from.

I chose to not worry about these corrections and bear markets because they are happening on an ever-accelerating time-scale. Meaning they work through quicker than ever. I don't think we are going to see anymore decade long bear markets. This is a function of the speed and wide availability of information coupled with modern economic policy and the willingness to print money. If anything, this should make one scared to be in too much cash. In a modern world, it's more important than ever to have productive assets to protect against the devaluation of money.



I've never believed in having a broad exposure to the market because I don't equate portfolio volatility with long-term risk. I'm willing to have a volatile portfolio as long as the long-term returns are good. So I've always invested in technology and innovation and left housing, real estate, clothing, food, and popular fashions and fads to others. Because technology and innovation is not going away. Innovation is where true VALUE is created by making things faster and cheaper with less. It's also where the best returns lie if you know how to avoid most of the dead-ends and non-profitable business plans. So this is another reason I am long-term bullish on the market - I actually tend to agree with you that much of the market is becoming less relevant and less valuable.

But the technology and innovation that businesses depend upon is not going away. It improves the lives of even people who eschew technology by making the products they buy less expensive and more easily available. I did invest in the early days of Starbucks but that was because the business model was simply too compelling. And I do have some BP oil (which is a disaster in terms of capital depreciation) but it has almost covered its losses with the dividends it's paid over the years. But, in general, I stick with technology and it's served me well over the last 30 years. And, yes, I consider Tesla a tech company as they innovate and push the cost of manufacturing down.

I appreciate this back and forth. We agree in just about every detail that matters (at least to me).

And my #1 criteria for good posts is whether I'm smarter afterwards than before. Whether I draw the same conclusion or not.
 
What a rollercoaster day for tsla. Up to 750, then down to 683, up to 710, then faded to 686.

I did sell some 200501 700/600 put spreads today for ER on April 29th

Glad I took some off the table 300 @ 750 last Friday for 120k gain when the position was initiated on 3/18

Why did I sell ?

1) short term indicator was overbought at 750
2) Tesla Stock Was Up for the 10th Straight Day. Stocks Don't Move Like That
 
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What a rollercoaster day for tsla. Up to 750, then down to 683, up to 710, then faded to 686.

I did sell some 200501 700/600 put spreads for ER on 4/29

Glad I took some off the table 300 @ 750 last Friday for 120k gain when the position was initiated on 3/18

Why did I sell ?

1) short term indicator was overbought at 750
2) Tesla Stock Was Up for the 10th Straight Day. Stocks Don't Move Like This
Sorry, what date did you say?
For my part, I find it extremely confusing when people post typos in numbers. Popular is the wrong hundreds.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: MaxPain
I'm not talking about people who sell 1 option. But even so, I think that the majority of people fooling around with options here are not fully aware of their ramifications.

I disagree with this but both of us are just speculative guessing. I don't think we have too many people HERE that are trading dozens of options that have no clue how to balance the trade.
 
Yesterday - on 4/20 Elon Musk Day - my younger brother placed an order for 309 shares, which was executed today. He already had 111 shares he bought last year, so his total now stands at... 420 :D

Symbolism is very important to him. He’s completely zen with his new position and said he will hodl for at least the next 10 years.
 
My other tech stocks are not going up as much as Tesla. Something seems up with TSLA

Not to invoke the usual, but max pain is around 700 for this week. Given how it was pinned to 750 yesterday, suggested a very active involvement from early in the week. Today’s macro action caused an overshoot so they’ll work to get it back up.

Remember bears and MMs are not the same thing, even though they both are often in opposition to longs.

EDIT: Both ENPH and TSLA dropped ~8% (9 for ENPH). Their charts were similar and differed from other energy and solar stocks. ENPH is up a little under 2% AH and TSLA is up a little over 2%.
 
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Not to invoke the usual, but max pain is around 700 for this week. Given how it was pinned to 750 yesterday, suggested a very active involvement from early in the week. Today’s macro action caused an overshoot so they’ll work to get it back up.

Remember bears and MMs are not the same thing, even though they both are often in opposition to longs.
This is likely accurate. With low volume each day they shouldn’t have trouble with it.