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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I have no idea if allowed by rules and regulations but from a purely logical perspective there is another possibility: Broker X can create 4 new phantom shares for each phantom share they had before the split and distribute those together with the 4M shares they got from tesla.

My take on this is that would cross the line they don't want to cross. It would simply be too blatant. That's the kind of stunt that can easily cause you to end up in jail. I assume if there are/were millions of phantom shares, they were able to do it under some semblance of "normal business", wink, wink. ;)
 
The short only has to provide the 4 new shares when she closses her short position. The lender just has their IOU increased to 5 shares from the 1 share.

If 5 post split shares have the sane price as the 1 pre split share there is no money lost or gained by anyone.
Thanks for providing an easy-to-reply-to post. First, two comments for @Boomer19:
1) your example scenario is way too complicated to reply to.
2) the DTCC only gives new shares in the amount of 400 and 800, not the 500 and 1000 you said.

Back to @Steve m:
I don't think you are correct about not needing to provide shares until the position is closed. The broker who borrowed the shares from the guy in the first place is on the hook to make sure he is, and remains, whole. The broker does this by ensuring that she (Susan) is able to return the shares when necessary, which can be for a number of reasons: (1) the lender (Len) sells his (borrowed) shares, (2) Susan closes her position, (3) the value of the shares increases past Susan's margin limits. (There may be other reasons.)

Hypothetically, Tesla announces on battery day that batteries are no longer necessary, they have a working Mr. Fusion. Stock goes from $420 up to $10,000. Now Susan, who has only ever borrowed one share, needs to return $50,000 worth of shares. If she can't, the broker has to instead, and they don't want to be in this situation. So, at the time of the split being effective, the broker would have borrowed the extra shares on Susan's behalf. Susan doesn't notice; before the split, she had borrowed $2,100 worth of one share, and after the split she has borrowed $2,100 worth of 5 shares @$420. So, no margin call or anything at that time. Now when Mr. Fusion comes along, the broker just takes everything they can get their hands on of Susan's, until they can satisfy her debt (or they assume the part she can't cover). Edit: meant to stress here that at least they have the shares to return to Len, because they were already borrowed. This prevents contributing to a short squeeze over and above the margin calls. End Edit.

Of course the hypothetical is ridiculous, unless it isn't, but the reality is that TSLA could easily climb 100% in a couple of weeks, and there is no way that the broker would assume responsibility for that situation. As I said, they address it by borrowing on Susan's behalf at the time of the split, not later when it becomes necessary. They can do this, because it's part of the agreement Susan signed when she applied for permission to trade on margin and sell short.
 
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So, that's enough shares for another split (2:1) after the 5:1 without needing shareholder approval to authorize more shares! :)
OK, time for just thinking (and not knowing).
I was a bit worried about why would the stock split not be 1 to 10 instead of 1 to 5. I thought the 10x would make it easier on everyone...now from readfing what all of you in the know are "discussing." It seems like this is going to mess with the brokerage firms that are using naked shorts for their financial gain, or the game they are allowed to play with naked shorts.
So the stock split will Xuck em. And the reason for only doing a 5 for 1 split? So if the brokerage MM's want to start doing it again Tesla still has one on the chamber, the 2 for one split.
Here again, just ant thoughts.
 
Holy duck, has taken me all day to dredge though all this garbage! (mostly on account of sacrificing myself on the altar of beer https://twitter.com/AskDrStupid/status/1296819720268767232 )

So, where to begin...

100% concur re: Cramer. Scary that he's still so "off" on Tesla; his interview with Rob demonstrates that the knowledge of a retail investor can now be so much better than what's held by the "experts."

As for Karen and FackChecking: A massive loss for this forum that they were run off. Depressing really, to see such idiocy by heavy-handed mods.

Please don’t call our mods idiots.

Was nothing to do with Fred, grr or Itnl Prof, OK? And well, speak of the devil...

Bull Trip is a joke.
Just like Bear Tripp.

Tripping Trip Chowdry is a Demi-god in Telsa history, mock him at your peril!

I think Rob is great, I really do, and I agree he's very professional, and dressed really well in the Cramer interview.

However, I also think that if you cut out everything below the neck, he kinda looks like a homeless person :p Maybe it's just me. Not too many people with that much facial hair here, having lived in Asia for the past 7-8 years.

No, not with you here at all, Frank. I dress like a hobo, if people don't like it, they can go fornicate themselves. I deal with content, not presentation.

Ok today is record date for split, what happens to newly purchased share next week before split date ?

Nothing, business as usual.

Sorry for such a potentially absurd response or question in this thread....

I kick myself for depositing money into a trade account but not proceeding with buying shares of TSLA in april when it was in the $400 range. I kick myself when it dipped a couple weeks ago to 1380.... Even at $2000 a share today, is it foolish for me to not get in today, before the split?

Buy LEAPS, maybe, not an advice

Would require multple cameras to cover all spots in the car. Radar can bounce into all parts of the interior and detect movement wherever it happens, however small.

OK, I was going to ask why the existing intrusion sensors weren't sufficient, but seems that radar can smell baby-farts, so is redundant.

I guess you have to take the bad with the good! ;)

Honestly, I really don't think it's a good thing to have to emulate those who use a suit and tie to lend credibility to their BS. Good analysis should be able to stand on it's own and people need to start realizing that a suit and tie are superficial things that don't add any value to the conversation. If you think differently, I would say it's only because you have been brainwashed your entire life.

Yup, don't judge a book by the cover.

This is for the shorts.
View attachment 578954

It's one of those hold overs. I'm not a formal guy myself, but there are many people who won't take you seriously if you aren't dressed up and I'm aware of that. Heck, I listen to Gali and he usually has the techie/hacker look going.

Did Steve Jobs dress in a suit? Does Elon most of the time? No.

Just a quick check: If I have shares at the end of the day, then the amount of shares will be countend an payed out as dividend on the 31st?

Yes, and b-next week too, nothing "weird" is going to happen, except, maybe, perhaps, we don't know, to the naked shorter/FTD crowd.

You’re absolutely right. The idea, though, is to show some respect to the other person, the tradition, the job, et al... by dressing in a manner befitting the situation.

Personally, I don’t care one way or another but a lot of people do. Knowing your audience and putting your best foot forward has literally no negative side effects. It also tells others you care what ‘they’ think, which again has no negative side effects.

Generally as we age we give less ****s. I mostly don’t give any about anything. However, I totally know how to present myself when I want something from someone, when I want to be seen in a particular light, when I want to show respect when I feel it’s deserved etc... It might annoy me to do it, but it doesn’t hurt me.

Never mind. Scratch all that. I sometimes forget how exhausting it can be to be nice. Middle finger all the way.

Charisma and talent trumps clothes.

I agree that a suit and tie shouldn't be required per se, but dressing well and presenting oneself well has 2 benefits:
  1. People are visual creatures. Almost everybody will at least subconsciously react more positively to a person who takes care of his/her appearance than to a person who does not.
  2. Just like being able to explain things eloquently shows off that specific skill and is a reflection of oneself, so too does being in decent shape shape show that a person can take care of his/her own health, and dressing well shows that a person can present him/herself well.

Charisma bags all.

I never thought the mods were idiots, but the actions could easily be described as idiocy. They were dis-engaged from the members on virtually every level but "Delete" and "Suspend."
I tried to talk sense to them back then, I am STRESSING the "back then" aspect. I even gave them an out when I tried to talk to them by mentioning how difficult their position must be. But instead of discussing the issue their "communication" was that of a corporation not concerned about any individual. I got back form letters when I wrote them. And when I asked why I received such questionable inflammatory content their response was everybody got the same letter.
Since then there has been a MAJOR shift. Both in tolerance and respect...on both sides.

Current mods are superb, previous mod was draconian, seems he's back - I welcome that, I think he's a good guy, but I hope he's learned his lesson in humility.


I took the quote from this, but can't remember why...

Dress is a precursor to formal communication, and a support during communication. It establishes the framework, and the message delivered should be assimilated based on ALL the available information.
In Rob's situation there are several aspects he considered. First amongst them was the audience...Cramer's Audience. Cramer wants to be the guy that has his shirt sleeves rolled-up as if he's been working hard all day to get the facts. Cramer wants his audience to see him as having been dressed up earlier in the day, but through out the day he's worked so hard that he needed to take his suit jacket off.
And Cramer wants to be seen as the ONLY guy working that hard for you.
And Cramer knows the sector of his audience that needs to assimilate Rob's information. I think Rob asked what to wear to present the information to the segment of the audience that he and Cramer were trying to influence. And if he didn't "ask" he was told.
Now to my observation... didn't that suit look a little large and dated? Maybe that was on purpose as well, or perhaps Rob's Dad is a little larger than he.

I don't own a suit.

I’ve been following the Investors Roundtable thread faithfully since 2017 when I finally started purchasing TSLA, and intermittently for a few years prior as I was contemplating TSLA. I come to learn and rarely post as I don’t have the experience and insights to offer that others do.

Since it’s a roundtable, there’s bound to be the odd diversion. I just want to let you know @Right_Said_Fred how much I appreciate your excellent sense of when to step in and gently steer things back on course. Your timing and style are impeccable. Thank you for that. I hope you can keep it up.

He is a bit grumpy though, don't you think?

Look at that! Your calls just doubled in value!

Edit: If you bought them when I think you did, now they've tripled! Good timing!

No, they didn't. I'm in vacation (for the last two weeks) in south of France. The wifi is dreadful and the 4G (LTE) variable. So I missed the opportune buying/selling window. The time-decay killed it, so even though the SP hit new daily highs, the moment was lost. Good news is that I offloaded them on a peak and took the profits of a meal at a good restaurant (with wine)...
 
Somebody accumulating and trying not to make too much noise, seems very controlled. Let’s see what happens in the last hour.

I totally agree with this! Amazingly narrow range for a company that could be reasonably valued over a huge spread just about any way you want to slice it!

Edit: Now that's more normal looking!
 
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Thanks a million, literally, to this forum. I’m happy to say this week I’ve joined the Teslanaire club. Started buying the stock in early 2018 after reading Ashley Vance’s biography about Elon, recognized his vision was the right one for doing something constructive to address climate change (by trade, I’m a federal scientist that studies climate effects on endangered species), luckily discovered this discussion board in mid 2018, and went all-in over the next year as I learned everything about Tesla from reading your posts 20-30 minutes a day, everyday. I’ve learned more about investing from this hive mind in the last 2 years than the previous 18 going it alone. My portfolio and prospects for an early retirement and doing good for my family and friends have swollen beyond my wildest dreams and life going forward is irrevocably altered regardless of how the stock may fluctuate over the next decade or more that I continue to hold it. In particular, my thanks for wealth wisdom & technical insights over the last few years to: Neroden, FactChecking, StealthP3D, The Accountant, Reflex Funds, KarenRei & dozens of others that contribute nuggets of gold to this collective.

My family still doesn’t own or drive the cars but unbeknownst to the wife, she’ll find a M3 parked in the garage for her next xmas morning, which’ll be joined by my Cybertruck a few years later. We went solar on our new house several months ago and look forward to driving exclusively on sunpower in the years ahead. We didn’t start out as a wealthy family, and the thought never crossed my mind of owning Teslas a few years ago when I started buying the stock, but it’s just the next logical thing to do. Millions of other families will reach that same conclusion in the years ahead and the fossil fuel era will pass into history as that process reaches its culmination. I just hope that Elon’s brilliant plan and execution of the plan have come soon enough to avoid catastrophic climate consequences later this century—that part of the story is yet unknown and to be written. But at least now we have a fighting chance & we'll have some fun while in the fight! Thanks Elon, thanks TMC. Dan