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Lets just say a union did end up negotiating the ability for employees to buy options. Have anyone compared the stock price of unionized auto vs no unionized?

GM has gone nowhere since IPO(even dropped below IPO)
F's share price has gone nowhere for 20+ years

Your options are as good as toilet paper in a union, so having options on the table doesn't mean anything. Whoever thinks they are not compensated well enough at Tesla while their follow peers became millionaires recently are just too stupid to not buy company stock(because they are the typical American who spends every cent they make).
I’m not sure that’s entirely fair to GM and Ford considering they have been paying out dividends along the way. And that’s a huge benefit as an employee shareholder as well, you’re buying into the company and then getting a bigger and growing slice of the company’s earnings.

Even people who bought Tesla in the early days would probably be wise to not sell their stock prematurely unless they think it has reached a price that doesnt accurately reflect future discounted cash flows, because an early entry point just means you will see even more insane return of capital when the company eventually fully matures and starts paying back cash to investors — how much it’ll pay back in the future is what the stock price is trying to figure out.

And having people looking at those long-term returns is surely what companies want. Creating millionaires who then retire and leave your company/industry is probably not in the best interests of the company when you think about it.
 
Saw my first Kia EV6 in the wild today. Looked great and a solid attempt at an EV better than ICE. $42k CAD with gov. incentives compared with $62k CAD for lowest price Tesla Model 3. This South Korean company knows the future and glad they are taking EVs seriously and sexy. More EV choices will only expand the EV pizza pie-ya.

So to date, I have now seen one Kia EV6, one Mercedes EQS, two Audi e-tron, four Ford Mustang Mach-E and five Posrche Taycans total, ever. That compared to seeing over a dozen Teslas in a short 15 minute ride this morning. Teslas are more common here than apple pie, and this is 2400 miles away from Fremont. Come on competition. You all look great. Now let's get out there and show everyone how to play.

 
I agree with this statement for the US. For the rest of the world it really depends on the country and situation.

Also true for any EU country. Where a union operates in the EU, only stagnation can occur. No exception. Speaking from way too much experience with fighting the unions in several EU entities (private and public).
 
Not really. If you look at the trend for the past few weekends, there’s hardly ever been Berlin made Y deliveries over the weekends
What???

That's because they are not normally doing ANY deliveries over the weekends. Last Saturday is the only other weekend day in June they did. It was only German deliveries that day.

Granted. It had to be since the Chinese cars had not started arriving yet.
 
Saw my first Kia EV6 in the wild today. Looked great and a solid attempt at an EV better than ICE. $42k CAD with gov. incentives compared with $62k CAD for lowest price Tesla Model 3. This South Korean company knows the future and glad they are taking EVs seriously and sexy. More EV choices will only expand the EV pizza pie-ya.

So to date, I have now seen one Kia EV6, one Mercedes EQS, two Audi e-tron, four Ford Mustang Mach-E and five Posrche Taycans total, ever. That compared to seeing over a dozen Teslas in a short 15 minute ride this morning. Teslas are more common here than apple pie, and this is 2400 miles away from Fremont. Come on competition. You all look great. Now let's get out there and show everyone how to play.

Spice EVs will flow to the "best" markets.

Highest penalty for selling too many ICE vs BEV, other restrictions (clean air zones, tolls, number plates eg Shanghai), best incentives.

I'm guessing European countries (plus maybe China, few others) will soak up production for a while. My understanding is that Hyundai/Kia have NOT produced enough to satisfy demand, and are a long way from doing so. I'm still not convinced they are fully (or even reasonably) supportive of EVs. I do wonder if they have different parts of the empire, even politicians, fighting EV production.

Last I heard, Tesla are pretty easy to get in UK compared to other makes. Anecdata, not anything solid, but info coming from leasing companies with associated "we can get a Tesla sooner".

If Elon/Tesla are going for extreme volume, then this is the right call to me. EV adoption increasing, plenty of unserviced markets, limited interest or capacity at other OEMs, complete ignorance from Japanese OEMs, strong pricing => massive open goal to whoever can make good EVs in large volume - Tesla
 
My autopilot always phantom brake at the same spot on the highway and has been constant at phantom braking at the same place every week for one year now.
I have sent 52 times the « Bug Report »
while holding the wheel scrollers. The day they fix it I buy FSD I promise.
Should try driving the 401 between Mississauga and Milton (either direction) where the new 12 lane section is going in.

The alignment of the new lanes is changed just enough that the map data and the (TACC/Autosteer/NOA) set speed argue with each other seven times on that stretch of road.

Nothing more invigorating than a hard phantom brake event at 0430 with nobody around…
 
Personally I have observed only marginal improvements since last year, when I first got the FSD Beta software. They have come slowly and steadily, but with many steps backward. And I'm mostly driving around Bay Area suburbia, which ought to be pretty easy and familiar to Tesla's developers. There have been no "step changes", which I've found very disappointing.

No FSD step changes since last year? Really?

I don't test in Bay Area suburbia or anything similar because that type of FSD driving is already well covered. I test on a mountain road where one small mistake can lead to death. Cliffs or near cliffs on both uphill and downhill sides of the road, narrow and twisty with inconsistent corners and cambers, grades abruptly changing, lane markings that most often don't exist at all, no centerline or shoulders and almost every corner is 100% blind with no good clue as to what is coming next. Trees and rocks block vision everywhere. Because the road was built in the 1920's, the corners are dictated by the terrain and drainage needs which is why there are decreasing radius and off-camber corners, inconsistent grade changes etc. There are also no guardrails at all, the road edges are often a direct route down the mountain. In short, a nightmare for any system with pretenses of being autonomous. Humans tend to drive it either like Mario Andretti (because they know the road) or a complete beginner peeing their pants.

For the first 3 years I would typically end my testing at the beginning of the steep climb, the last 9 miles to the summit because it would fail multiple times, every time, and often in ways that were very deadly if intervention was not immediate. One of its favorite failure modes was to think the old-growth forest backdrop of a hairpin corner was a long straight-away. I suspect it was aiming for a large trunk as it would try to accelerate off the road at high speed into large trees, I can tell you, that would not end well. I would slam on the brake at the last possible moment and come to a stop at the outside shoulder of the hairpin turn.

Still, every few months I would let it have a go at the last section of road when traffic was non-existent, but it couldn't consistently and properly position itself to enter blind corners. I would stay hyper-alert for the first sign of on-coming traffic while letting it do its thing. Even letting it have its dangerous way, it could not hope to complete this section of road without multiple human interventions to avoid certain disaster. It was completely hopeless, and the most discouraging part was that it seemed to have no idea how to position itself to safely enter narrow and blind corners and it didn't help that there are no lane markings whatsoever on many of these corners. Just blacktop patches or chip seal blurring invisibly into road sand, forest duff, trees and rocks.

About 4 weeks ago, after much of the winter snow had melted, I gave it another go. I didn't have much hope other than my M3P had a new verion of FSD. To my surprise and delight, it drove the entire road without a single intervention, and, more importantly, it had learned how to set itself up to safely enter blind corners! This was a huge step change of the highest order! It was not a gradual improvement.

The entire 9 miles the car drove very much like a human, save for one 300-degree corner near the top where it briefly hesitated by slowing to 15 mph instead of driving smoothly around at 20 mph. In all other cases, the car slowed appropriately for each corner and accelerated smoothly and confidently out of each one (unless there was another sharp corner immediately in which case it just continued around, as a human would).

In the last couple of miles there was a wide pile of snow avalanche debris comprised of heavy, wet, melted snowpack completely covering the downhill lane. It was shaped like a tongue and was about 20 feet wide and 4 feet deep on the uphill edge of the road and tapering to zero exactly at the centerline, which is marked on this section of road. This would cause considerable damage to any car that drove into it at 30 mph. On the uphill leg, FSD simply drove by the avalanche debris in the downhill lane at 30 mph as if it didn't exist. On the downhill leg I was concerned because there was a blind bend in the road only a little more than 100 feet beyond the avalanche debris. If FSD exhibited uncertainty and poked along at slow speed in the on-coming lane, it would be subject to a head on collision if another motorist coming around the blind corner didn't react quickly enough.

Descending the mountain, I felt like we were approaching the wall of snow awfully quickly at 30 mph and FSD was showing no signs that it recognized the threat. I did not look at the center display because I had my full attention on "driving" and was preparing to take over because the uphill lane had no shoulder and no guardrail and any car venturing off the narrow pavement would accelerate as they bounded hundreds of feet down a 60-degree slope. Since my attention was outside the vehicle. I don't know when or if the center display pictured the avalanche debris, but the car smoothly changed into the on-coming lane and went immediately back into the downhill lane, as smoothly as the most professional driver, before gently applying the brakes (regen) and taking the corner at 25 mph. As if it were nothing at all. I could not have done it smoother or more appropriately myself! Going slower would have been more dangerous because it could have left us with nowhere to go in the event a fast-moving vehicle had rounded the blind corner at the inopportune moment.

The entire trip, up and down the mountain, positioning itself appropriately for the entrance to blind corners, slowing down and speeding up smoothly, very similar to the way a good human driver would react, avoiding the avalanche debris more safely than your average human would have done, all without intervention, I would call that a real step change in FSD. Remember, the FSD team does not work on all scenarios and driving conditions simultaneously and just because you, personally, are not driving in scenarios that have undergone massive transformation, that doesn't mean huge improvements have not been made. Just last year, FSD would try to kill me every time by accelerating off into old-growth trees or entering blind corners too wide.

The primary reason FSD is such a difficult problem is due to the huge variety of driving scenarios that must be solved for. I'm super impressed with the recent improvements on narrow twisty roads, often lacking any pavement marking whatsoever. People who think FSD is nothing more than a glorified "stay between the lines" are in for a surprising awakening!
 
Johna Crider who met Elon Sat at Giga Austin says he is well:
Many ppl are worried about
@elonmusk
since he’s been offline for some time. I saw him yesterday at Giga TX. The fact that he took the time to meet with me was awesome, His focus was on working but he was safe and healthy. He’s also chill
😎
He’s dedicated to Tesla and SpaceX
 
MODERATOR:
A charged subject like labor unions does, to no one’s surprise, have a tendency to veer away from Tesla and in other ways bring about unsupported, highly personal, blanket statements.
Post VERY CAREFULLY lest the entire sub-topic be shut down. Were that to happen, YOU would be the cause.

Perhaps this site needs a disclaimer of potential discussion with certain trigger words? Warning would include warning to readers that such things might take place and that posters might shut down sub topics.

I think Numbers trigger some folks here, that could be added to "the list". These things don't trig me, but I understand others can be obtuse. I don't take sides on such things as I don't have an angle.

What else triggers people here?
 
I'm still researching solar for the home and happened upon this:

 
Also true for any EU country. Where a union operates in the EU, only stagnation can occur. No exception. Speaking from way too much experience with fighting the unions in several EU entities (private and public).
We've certainly seen that with Volkswagen, where their union has opposed the companies efforts to transition to EVs. Union leadership does not tend to look at long term consequences.