It has nothing to do with itemizing. You either qualify to use it or you don't. (Or you can use part of it.) Changing to a point of sale credit doesn't change that. You still have to qualify for it, and have enough tax liability to use it.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Or trying to keep the product from being Osbourned by its China made cousin. It is odd that Tesla would debut a new car on two separate continents and think it would not effect sales of the older 3 here on this continent.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
I don't see how you perceive this as me taking it personally. It doesn't feel that way to me.
It seems more like you are measuring Tesla's "success" by how much you profit and may be ignoring a clear, written strategy that Tesla hasn't deviated from at any point.
Rather than taking that approach at measuring things, I accept how Tesla's approach is different and know that as the market figures this out the SP will follow. In the mean time it makes perfect sense to me what is going on. Granted, I am disappointed in how slowly this realization is happening, that's the problem with entering an "S" curve. It is pokey, pokey, pokey, POP.
I hold no preconception that Tesla makes as big a focus on satisfying the shareholders as do more traditional companies. I read the Mission Statement, and, understand it.
The points you keep repeating seem to be those of someone who is expecting that Tesla making the shareholder happy to be the focus of a company's decisions.
What if that is not the case with Tesla?
What if the way to play this is to sit back and enjoy the ride until those who, like you, finally see the forest for the trees and suddenly want to buy TSLA as the inevitable reveals itself over time.
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I suspect a lot of Americans use software or tax preparers so it's not really difficult for them. 1040-EZ was removed so unless you're 65 or older you're using the same form.
PoS claims will help because people will immediately benefit, although expect some issues when circumstances change.
Also, the bigger issue is people not understanding how the tax credits work. We have numerous people on here asking or just getting it wrong.
I think the Asia/Europe models are mostly for markets where the S and X risk being considered too large, as the 3 Highland in particular builds in some of the S features at a much lower price. And the S and X are only made here, so they need to be shipped over and can be subject to tariffs and such.
We don’t really know how the point of sale change will roll out with the IRA, between the increasing battery mineral/component requirements and the knowledge that batteries containing any Chinese components are supposed to qualify for $0. Though with how generously it has been implemented so far, I wouldn’t be shocked to see that have minimal impact.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Didn't they also switch back to an Alcantara covering for the dash instead of faux-wood?
There’s some legitimacy to this argument. That‘s how I placed an order for the Model S back in the day. While I had heard about the Tesla Roadster, I was very skeptical of a battery powered sports car (stupid me, would have been fun to own one). I only really paid attention to Tesla when they had their Model X reveal which actually happened before Model S started shipping. So I started following Tesla and pulled the trigger to buy an S later that year.
So yes, big launch events are indeed big advertising events. Apple plays this game very well, as does Tesla.
But more importantly, the mission. 3D Checkmate.
Convincing other automakers to adopt the NACS standard in 2024 while continuing to cut prices is a genius move. Signals to the US government that Tesla is trying to be inclusive and help with the overall EV transition. Gets (nearly) all the other automakers to commit to the NACS standard. And at the same time, crushes the competition, so that by 2024 most will be unable to profitably make EVs. Thus, Tesla and Tesla owners will still largely have the supercharger network to themselves, and NACS will be solidified as the national standard.
Get your competition on board, and then crush them. Brutal.
Get your competition on board, and then crush them. Brutal.
Drumheller
Active Member
Looks like a Put wall at $250. Target for Friday close.
The $7500 tax credit going to Point of Sale will result in lower monthly payments. Many people shop for cars based on monthly payment. That's how dealers rob people blind using the four quadrants pen and paper BS
I still think we should do a crowdfunded TV ad; something really informative unlike Danny boy Super Bowl commercial. I bet that would get a lot of news exposure "Tesla Refuses TV Ads, So Fans Roll Out Their Own" and maybe that will help Elon wake up.
Legacy had their chance, time to bury them all.
It's all in a days work; part of the mission - and can't happen fast enough.
Seriously, the primary reason is that each factory thus far has been a large advance on each prior one, with the famously 'kludgey' but impossibly cheap, Fremont the hardest to scale and each successive plant reflecting the 'state of the art' when it was built. That really si the primary reason why each factory is no now a mirror image of each other, so they each must be updates in sequence. Similarly, they shut down one factory at a time so they do not lose as much production as they would if done at the same time. As an added factor, each factory has local suppliers and some battery flavors (e.g. BYD) serve only one factory, and each factory has local variations as well, so no two factories are exactly identical. Perhaps the easiest illustration is to note which factories have enough Gigapress capacity to have both front and rear castings for Model Y and which do not. That alone makes factory updates quiet different from one factory to another.
I am certainly not a manufacturing specialist. I do understand the impact of the Brandenburg paint shop vs those of Shanghai, Austin and Fremont. Add those to all the other differences and we can see that the very flexibility of TSLA production evolution carries with it massive version control implications from product to product, factory to factory and supplier to supplier. Logistics alone would overwhelm an effort to make every factory identical.
This question rarely arises for other OEM cases because almost nobody other than internal engineers pays attention to factory homogeneity.
Just as an illustration, think about Tesla Model Y having just become the largest global car sales champion replacing Toyota Corolla.. The Model Y has the same form factor globally, even though manufacturing differs between each factory. The Corolla, by contrast, has a plethora of models with unique body styles, drive trains and branding variants, all of which aggregate as "Toyota Corolla" for sales reporting, but nothing much else:
When we assume that Tesla, approaching two million sales per annum, should have all factories upgrade simultaneously, we are forgetting how different the products and production processes are in each factory. Tesla makes it look easy. That is part of the incredible complexity that Tesla manages almost invisibly.
We heard all about that when Tesla adapted to whatever semiconductor they could get during the supply criss while others had to stop production. Spectacular and wonderful!! Now, just think about version control and individual factory differences. It is amazing that they're able to make all that seem easy. They cannot quite do the same upgrade to each line for each model at the same time.
Why? Does anybody outside of Teslaphiles even know? ...or care?
Drumheller
Active Member
I share this view. All of the people calling for ads: pool your resources, make one, air it, and see how it goes.
Would we get to benefit from the increased sales, selling prices? And improved share price doesn't count. Honestly, this shouldn't be that difficult. They could easily devote $1k per vehicle towards marketing and put some serious promotion together to get word out to combat the general public's misconceptions.
Its been all over tech and auto media, Youtube, Tick Tok and Twitter (x or whatever). And my Yahoo front page. Is it the majority? I don't know, but a sizeable amount of people, Do they care? Price it low enough and the answer is no.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Mentioning the S-curve earlier led me to think about the very limited number of shares available to trade, thanks mostly to long-term investors (who have no reason to rant and rave) and how this affects price movements in ways that seem extreme to the short-term players.
Currently, if this pool of shares is small, it makes it easy to manipulate the price for the Options players.
However, once the wave of understanding Tesla crests, this same limited number of available shares will allow for the sort of sky-rocketing share prices as we have seen on occasion in the past.
Is there any published metric that shows the percentage of actual shares available to trade which doesn't include the "fake" shares bandied about in the options market?
Currently, if this pool of shares is small, it makes it easy to manipulate the price for the Options players.
However, once the wave of understanding Tesla crests, this same limited number of available shares will allow for the sort of sky-rocketing share prices as we have seen on occasion in the past.
Is there any published metric that shows the percentage of actual shares available to trade which doesn't include the "fake" shares bandied about in the options market?
Agreed, and I have mentioned this before with my extensive Bucees experience
. The EV charging time matches their ideal customer dwell time, best I can determine: Bucees has lots of things for you to look at, fresh(?) food being made -- with nowhere provided for you to sit down and eat it.This means Bucees have designed their stores for you to come in from the highway, empty your bladder, browse the store, buy your drink and taco / sandwich ... and get the hell out of the way to make space for the next customer. The smiling beaver mascot never says it, but you generally have no choice but to "eat in your own damn car".
The in-store timeframe ends up being 15-20 minutes, just about perfect for EV charging at current Tesla battery and charger rates. And if your car isn't done, well, you can eat while not moving - infinitely safer. I'm sure the beaver is happy about that.
I am rather convinced that the Bucees management team is well informed about the good match between SC charging time and their customer-flow-based business design, leading to their significant and rapidly executed Supercharger partnerships.
I believe many highway-stop establishments have a similar model. Many I have stopped at actually provide seating for you to eat your sandwich ... I wonder if those seats will go away and be replaced by another rack of beef jerky or exotically flavored corn puffs, to keep us moving through faster, as we follow the beaver into the brave new world of the future.
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