Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[MP3Mike]

Thanks go to Sawyer Merritt for sharing this.

Updated guidelines on $7500 tax credit for point of sale. Released today.

View attachment 980132

Why can't people provide links to the information?

The actual guidance:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rp-23-33.pdf

The press release:

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1783#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20%E2%80%93%E2%80%AFAs%20part%20of%20Bidenomics%20and%20the%20Biden-Harris,sale%20for%20new%20and%20previously%20owned%20clean%20vehicles.

Two important points:

(7) An attestation that the taxpayer will file an income tax return for the taxable year in which the vehicle is placed in service on or before the due date of the return (including extensions), reporting the taxpayer’s eligibility for the § 30D or § 25E credit, as applicable, including the vehicle’s VIN, and the taxpayer’s election to transfer the credit to the eligible entity, and repaying any credit amounts subject to recapture, if applicable

i.e. if they didn't have the tax liability to support the full credit that they received at the point of sale that they will repay the extra they received.

(9) An attestation that in the event the taxpayer’s modified AGI exceeds the applicable modified AGI limitations, they will repay the amount received as an addition to tax for the tax year the vehicle was placed in service.

i.e. This doesn't bypass the MAGI limitations.

 

[Knightshade]

Thanks go to Sawyer Merritt for sharing this.

Updated guidelines on $7500 tax credit for point of sale. Released today.

View attachment 980132

Relevant bit for folks who were unsure what happens if you take the credit then later realize you didn't qualify for some/all of it:

Section 30D(g)(10) provides that in the case of any taxpayer who has made a
vehicle transfer election with respect to a new clean vehicle and received a payment
from an eligible entity, if the section 30D credit would otherwise (but for section 30D(g))
not be allowable to such taxpayer pursuant to the application of the modified AGI
limitations in section 30D(f)(10), the income tax imposed on such taxpayer under
chapter 1 for the taxable year in which such vehicle was placed in service must be
increased by the amount of the payment received by such taxpayer.



So as suggested previously- IRS will reconcile with you when you file taxes and you'll owe the $ back at that time.... this might also hit you with underpayment penalties depending on the amounts involved and other circumstances- so you'll want to insure you understand the credit qualifications before taking it as POS.

 

[raffiniert]

I did my part today. How about you?

MS Plaid Ultra Red, Enhanced AP, 19", Yoke (YES!), Winter tire package, black interior. My 9 year old P85 will go to a friend.

Lets go!

 

[jerry33]

Agreed.

I still believe the in-car Tesla App Store is coming someday, where you'll be able to buy new games or other apps and features for the car UI and such. If the store does come, then having as many cars in customers hands becomes important because that equals a larger potential store customer base. Software sales in-car, high margin sales. This would of course become MUCH more lucrative if Level 5 FSD is solved and the passenger needs to find things to do in the car while being driven around.

I would pay good money for themes so the dash would look the way I would like it to look.

 

[AndrewZ]

My initial pessimism regarding US price cuts is at least somewhat tempered by price hikes with inventory vehicles as well as in other countries. More of a mixed bag than I initially realized.

There can be other drivers for this though, like the Krona and Krone coming down against a ridiculously strong USD

Prices need to go up just to offset the exchange rates, treasury yields in the US are driving the USD way up

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Don't see all the fuss in margins dropping when....

EV Maker Lucid’s $338,000 Loss Per Car Turns Investors Off

(Bloomberg) -- The diverging fortunes of the two most prominent electric vehicle startups in the US show Wall Street is picking a side — and it’s not Lucid Group Inc. Most Read from BloombergThe 5% Bond Market Means Pain Is Heading Everyone’s WayThe Moral Case for No Longer Engaging With Elon...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[mongo]

Why can't people provide links to the information?

The actual guidance:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rp-23-33.pdf

The press release:

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1783#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20%E2%80%93%E2%80%AFAs%20part%20of%20Bidenomics%20and%20the%20Biden-Harris,sale%20for%20new%20and%20previously%20owned%20clean%20vehicles.

Two important points:



i.e. if they didn't have the tax liability to support the full credit that they received at the point of sale that they will repay the extra they received.



i.e. This doesn't bypass the MAGI limitations.

Relevant bit for folks who were unsure what happens if you take the credit then later realize you didn't qualify for some/all of it:

Section 30D(g)(10) provides that in the case of any taxpayer who has made a
vehicle transfer election with respect to a new clean vehicle and received a payment
from an eligible entity, if the section 30D credit would otherwise (but for section 30D(g))
not be allowable to such taxpayer pursuant to the application of the modified AGI
limitations in section 30D(f)(10), the income tax imposed on such taxpayer under
chapter 1 for the taxable year in which such vehicle was placed in service must be
increased by the amount of the payment received by such taxpayer.



So as suggested previously- IRS will reconcile with you when you file taxes and you'll owe the $ back at that time.... this might also hit you with underpayment penalties depending on the amounts involved and other circumstances- so you'll want to insure you understand the credit qualifications before taking it as POS.

It's the opposite
There is only recapture if you violate the income cap (which is lesser of current or previous year). There is no clawback if your tax burden is under $7,500.

C. 1. Treatment of Electing Taxpayer Proposed §§1.25E-3(e)(1) and 1.30D-5(d)(1) would provide the Federal income tax treatment of a vehicle transfer election as to an electing taxpayer. Specifically, the proposed regulations provide that the amount of the clean vehicle credit an electing taxpayer may transfer as part of a vehicle transfer election can exceed the electing taxpayer’s regular tax liability (as defined in section 26(b)(1) of the Code) for the taxable year in which the sale occurs, and the excess amount, if any, generally is not subject to recapture unless recapture pursuant to section 30D(f)(5) or (g)(10) applies. In addition, the payment made (whether in cash or in the form of a partial payment or down payment for the purchase of such vehicle) by the eligible entity to the electing taxpayer is not includible in the electing taxpayer’s gross income for the taxable year. Finally, to ensure appropriate application of the basis reduction rule in section 30D(f)(1) (and section 25E(e) by cross reference to section 30D(f)(1)), the proposed regulations would provide that the payment described in the preceding sentence is treated as repaid by the electing taxpayer to the eligible entity as part of the purchase price of the vehicle.

 

[2daMoon]

Disagree with the indication of «malice» in your statement, Tesla got the competition aboard because NACS has the superior coverage and quality over there, leading to a far better experience for all impacted EV owners.

... and, the NACS very likely costs less, bringing down COGS for every mfg that adopts it.

 

[Tony73]

It doesn’t matter how big the percentage of market share is if the total is nominal. 90% of 10 is only 9. Your market and the interest for the vehicles isn’t big enough to be worth it to Tesla anymore.

You’ve had your say on the topic. Please move on. Tesla isn’t making S/X for your market any longer no matter how much you talk about your upset.

The post you are responding to had absolutely nothing to do with S/X in the UK.
It was talking about possible motivations for 3/Y price cuts.

Your post was rude and unnecessary. You owe cliff Harris an apology

 

[betstarship]

I might be too old for this forum nowadays

 

[alhounos]

Ok this is super bullish IMHO:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1710310520325071225

This is not a few release candidates for testing. This is proper production run stuff. There MUST be a delivery event announcement soon. I know gigatexas is big, but there must be a limit to how many CTs they can hide in a corner

WOW! We’ve seen a dozen or so release candidate Cybertrucks in the wild so far, but this is clearly HUNDREDS of castings. Assuming these are indeed CT castings and not for MY, this confirms that CT is entering production. Huge news!

 

[MP3Mike]

The post you are responding to had absolutely nothing to do with S/X in the UK.

I disagree, it did to some extent:

MG4 is also small, and more suited to UK roads.

I am constantly seeing people say that all Teslas are too big for the roads in the UK. And if he is saying the Model 3&Y aren't well suited to the UK roads, then the S&X are really not suited to the UK roads.

 

[mongo]

WOW! We’ve seen a dozen or so release candidate Cybertrucks in the wild so far, but this is clearly HUNDREDS of castings. Assuming these are indeed CT castings and not for MY, this confirms that CT is entering production. Huge news!

That's 145 Cybertruck castings* surrounded by Y castings in racks.
*per Greggertruck

 

[Tony73]

I disagree, it did to some extent:


I am constantly seeing people say that all Teslas are too big for the roads in the UK. And if he is saying the Model 3&Y aren't well suited to the UK roads, then the S&X are really not suited to the UK roads.

It absolutely did not have anything to do with Tesla making a RHD model S/X. It was not in response to any other post. He simply posted something he thought others might find interesting. Nowhere do the words model S or model X appear.

Unless you think a UK poster is not allowed to post about the UK market.
And frankly, even if it did what gives a non-moderator the right to tell anyone to “move on”.

I’m done with this.

 

[Drumheller]

Be happy that Tesla has such competent leadership....

Corporate America Is Ignoring Jay Powell and Bingeing on Debt

(Bloomberg) -- For the past 18 months, Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell has frantically been trying to break Americans' borrow-and-spend habits. It’s critical to his fight against inflation.Most Read from BloombergThe 5% Bond Market Means Pain Is Heading Everyone’s WayThe Moral Case for No...

finance.yahoo.com

This is an underrated comment. While reading this thread, I frequently remind myself that many of the contributors are retired and have been out of the corporate world for years. I'm still working and my impression of most C level staff is not favorable. My current employer is the best I've had in a long time and yet the place is full of inefficiencies and productivity inhibitors. I keep trying to improve things but am constantly met with resistance. I'm currently in my 32nd meeting this week.

I would pay good money for themes so the dash would look the way I would like it to look.

I would, too. However I understand that is adding complexity to the software stack. I was very involved in forum communities in the past, including server and software management. I did mods and themes and realized, over years, how much that added to maintenance and support.

I would very much like Tesla to stop removing software features. Nav is less useful now than it was in the past. I don't understand why some of the features were removed.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Due to excess Tesla Advertising, I picked up 50 chairs.

Advertising kicked in, sold 50.

 

[Buckminster]

Superbull Jonas note:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1710310915424317847

 

[replicant]

Superbull Jonas note:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1710310915424317847

Summary: "Just wait". How useful.

 

[Knightshade]

It's the opposite
There is only recapture if you violate the income cap (which is lesser of current or previous year). There is no clawback if your tax burden is under $7,500.

Not sure why you say it's the opposite when the bit I quoted specifically cites the income cap as the one that causes recapture.

Some folks here previously thought all requirements go away with POS-- that one does not and they will claw back if you're in violation of it.


THAT said- the other violation you bring up, which effectively makes this a refundable credit for those with LOWER income, IS surprising and a pretty huge bit of news if the final rules end up that way (the text you quote being proposed, but not final). It's especially great news for folks in places like CA that have low-income credits where the overlap to get both was narrow-- it's much larger now if this sticks.

 

[SOULPEDL]

That's 145 Cybertruck castings* surrounded by Y castings in racks.
*per Greggertruck

So only ~75 make-able? Fewer if the Fronts and Backs are not equal, or not 100% correct.
Hopefully this collection moves on through. As I recall Giga Texas startup, it seemed like we saw these sit around forever.
I have a feeling we're going to at least get a date soon, maybe today, on the delivery event.