Musskiah
DisGruntled
SMR's take on CYBRTRK in PRC is at least entertaining, at most informative, at times ridiculous
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Elon's new PDF for tech companies:
Remember when Wall St. hedgies were setting Plaid S on fire on Options expiry day? Well, if they want to empty out the chicken coop, 'go ahead make my day'.
New business courts coming to Texas. They can take on new cases in September. New Business Courts Coming To Texas | JD Supra
It'll take a few years for corporations to trust the new Texas business courts. Verdicts that favor corporations can be appealed. Only when favorable verdicts towards corporations are upheld would Texas be a trusted state to incorporate a LLC. I believe the board of directors might also want to consider relocating to Nevada, which has a track record that favors corporations.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
I think they'll do both. They'll move swiftly to vacate Malaware and redomicile to Texas. But they'll likely have to appeal the 'Malapropism in Malaware' because the legal fees are like 5 bills I think. Also need to discourage the camp followers by burning down their tents.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Elon has planted his flag in Texas, and that's where he'll make his stand. There'll be no going back.
I truly doubt that judge McCormick's rulings are politically influenced in any way- but assuming that they were, probably a lesson in there for CEOs considering jumping into the political fray.
mars_or_bust
Member
I think Elon will go medieval on Delaware, the same way go went after Disney for example. In the next few years Delaware will likely lose a lot of companies. Good riddance.
I don’t see much of a pattern of planting, more of just moving a lot. Next move seems likely to be further south toward Mexico.
Being largely self funding these days, Banking would not be as much of an issue. Work force issues with bots going away soon.
MeXico is a rising star that would welcome him and could support large manufacturing facilities. Do R&D in Austin but do the scale in Mexico.
The closer SpaceX launch facilities are to the equator the better.
Taxes might be better, liability laws, Chinese relations etc. lots of things could improve far beyond what any US state could offer.
Of course he would never tip his hat by wearing a sombrero
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Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Musk Industries are centered around Austin, TX. Tesla has it's headquarters and lead factory there. SpaceX and The Boring Company have manufacturing facilities at Basrop, just 20 miles East of Austin. Many folks don't know Neuralink has its research faciilty in Austin.
Elon Musk's Neuralink is relocating to Austin | kvue.com (Sep 09, 2022)
Care to bet when/where X.com HQ moves to? Server farms?
They've actually been losing some big companies for a few years now, the DE courts have become suspect for some time now. It's only beginning to become a more aware issue lately, and certainly this reversal of the Tesla board's pay package will draw even more attention to the court's recent activities and judgements.
I think the DE exodus towards other states is already underway, it might start to accelerate though.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
It's grown to the extent that local media are publishing critical opinions on the court:
This is how chancery court corruption threatens Delaware’s economic future | Opinion Keandra McDole | delawareonline.com (May 11, 2023)
Indeed, any CEO who receives compensation in the form of stock options, or any Board of Directors compensated with shares now have to consider the risks to their income.
The point is “moving“ not the particular destination of the moment. There is always a better location, better laws, better politics, greener pastures etc.
The best stake in the ground is no stake in the ground.
Increasingly what is best for SpaceX wins the day. EM has clearly stated he is uncomfortable and my read is that is more related to SpaceX than Tesla. So my eye holds on SpaceX if you want to know the future of Tesla. YMMV
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
A decision in one state has no bearing in another. Does it?
Regarding Delaware Chancery Court:
insights-from-delaware-litigators
These and numerous other articles point towards a major effort by the Delaware Chancery Court to 'update' rules and 'harmonize' their rulings with Federal rules. Those are frequently obscure, although overall they do give increased latitude to plaintiffs in litigation with Delaware corporations and increase burden of proof by the corporations.
Both the recent Musk decisions, the Twitter and the Tesla compensation, reflect the change in approach by that court. Numerous other decisions do illustrate those changes. In giving more credence to plaintiffs, thus reducing burden of proof for class actions these change many years of historical treatments.
Texas, as a result of a 2023 law, will be considerably more subject to political intervention than many others. That may or may not give short term benefit to new large corporations, such as Tesla.
It should be noted that the same Texas Governor signed a new law that resulted in new supplemental BEV tax:
www.globalfleet.com
In short, there is exactly zero assurance that Texas Incorporation will be more favorable to Tesla. All the massive Tesla, SpaceX, Boring Company and Neuralink investments in Texas have thus far resulted in the counting restrictions on direct sales and extra taxes too add.
Nevada might well be the most stable best bet at the moment. Certainly not Texas!
insights-from-delaware-litigators
These and numerous other articles point towards a major effort by the Delaware Chancery Court to 'update' rules and 'harmonize' their rulings with Federal rules. Those are frequently obscure, although overall they do give increased latitude to plaintiffs in litigation with Delaware corporations and increase burden of proof by the corporations.
Both the recent Musk decisions, the Twitter and the Tesla compensation, reflect the change in approach by that court. Numerous other decisions do illustrate those changes. In giving more credence to plaintiffs, thus reducing burden of proof for class actions these change many years of historical treatments.
Texas, as a result of a 2023 law, will be considerably more subject to political intervention than many others. That may or may not give short term benefit to new large corporations, such as Tesla.
It should be noted that the same Texas Governor signed a new law that resulted in new supplemental BEV tax:
Texas levies new $200 annual charge on electric vehicles
New registration fee aims to compensate for lost gasoline tax revenues.
www.globalfleet.com
In short, there is exactly zero assurance that Texas Incorporation will be more favorable to Tesla. All the massive Tesla, SpaceX, Boring Company and Neuralink investments in Texas have thus far resulted in the counting restrictions on direct sales and extra taxes too add.
Nevada might well be the most stable best bet at the moment. Certainly not Texas!
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
It seems reasonable to have incorporation in a different state than the one where you operate.
The voting block of Elon's companies, their suppliers, and the 100,000+ Tesla owners in Texas are getting a bit too big to be ignored. As ICE and dealership sales decline, there will be less money to purchase politicians. It won't happen overnight but it will happen that the laws will change. Isn't Nevada the state that doesn't even allow Tesla to have Service Centres?Regarding Delaware Chancery Court:
insights-from-delaware-litigators
These and numerous other articles point towards a major effort by the Delaware Chancery Court to 'update' rules and 'harmonize' their rulings with Federal rules. Those are frequently obscure, although overall they do give increased latitude to plaintiffs in litigation with Delaware corporations and increase burden of proof by the corporations.
Both the recent Musk decisions, the Twitter and the Tesla compensation, reflect the change in approach by that court. Numerous other decisions do illustrate those changes. In giving more credence to plaintiffs, thus reducing burden of proof for class actions these change many years of historical treatments.
Texas, as a result of a 2023 law, will be considerably more subject to political intervention than many others. That may or may not give short term benefit to new large corporations, such as Tesla.
It should be noted that the same Texas Governor signed a new law that resulted in new supplemental BEV tax:
Texas levies new $200 annual charge on electric vehicles
New registration fee aims to compensate for lost gasoline tax revenues.
In short, there is exactly zero assurance that Texas Incorporation will be more favorable to Tesla. All the massive Tesla, SpaceX, Boring Company and Neuralink investments in Texas have thus far resulted in the counting restrictions on direct sales and extra taxes too add.
Nevada might well be the most stable best bet at the moment. Certainly not Texas!
Isn't the main advantage the reduction of nuisance lawsuits because the plaintiff has to file in another state so there is a barrier to suing? (assumes both legal systems, tax, etc. are similar)
Stretch2727
Engineer and Car Nut
It really doest matter whether the judge was politically motivated or not. I don't really care.
When someone with 9 shares can overturn the vote of thousands of other shareholders with millions of shares it is just wrong. As investors we are not ignorant to the fact that Musk controls Tesla and the board. In fact Elon was chairman in 2018. If the lawsuit was backed by a large % of shares I would have a different view. How can companies expect to do business when some basic large decisions cannot be put into a contract with all parties in agreement. It's not like now there are a large percentage of shareholders saying this package was flawed. It's 9 shares. To me it is just fundamental to capitalism that contracts can be put in place where all parties agree regardless of the process they used to get to agreement.
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