They are having test drives for the Roadster near me this weekend and I will probably pop by to talk to the rep about the Model S and perhaps take a test drive. Does anyone have any questions that they would like answered either about the Roadster or the Model S while I am there .... :biggrin:
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Test Drives
- Thread starter Kevin Harney
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I'd like to know the status of the detailed-design of the new chassis. i.e. is it still in concept? Are their finalized CAD drawings? is there a prototype? is there a schedule?
They've said the packing density of the individual LiIon cells in the ESS/battery pack is improved for the model-S. By how much? What will be the specs for each new battery pack -- it seems that a standard battery pack would represent ~80 miles of driving range, but they may have broken it down into smaller units for geometric reasons/other. I would *love* to have a floor-mounted battery pack in the roadster; imagine the cornering!
The current prototype is more of a concept/advanced mule. If the DOE loans/etc are delayed, will they build a proper VP/EP prior to receiving the loans? Current schedule for a more production-intent prototype.
I am a bit worried about the price of the model-S rising as we get closer to production. At this point, I expect many of the costs can be reasonably well estimated. The one unknown is probably the marginal cost of assembly, since the model-S plant will use significantly different assembly techniques than the roadster. How comfortable are they (Tesla) with their cost estimates for final assembly and what portion of the overall vehicle cost does this represent.
//dan.
They've said the packing density of the individual LiIon cells in the ESS/battery pack is improved for the model-S. By how much? What will be the specs for each new battery pack -- it seems that a standard battery pack would represent ~80 miles of driving range, but they may have broken it down into smaller units for geometric reasons/other. I would *love* to have a floor-mounted battery pack in the roadster; imagine the cornering!
The current prototype is more of a concept/advanced mule. If the DOE loans/etc are delayed, will they build a proper VP/EP prior to receiving the loans? Current schedule for a more production-intent prototype.
I am a bit worried about the price of the model-S rising as we get closer to production. At this point, I expect many of the costs can be reasonably well estimated. The one unknown is probably the marginal cost of assembly, since the model-S plant will use significantly different assembly techniques than the roadster. How comfortable are they (Tesla) with their cost estimates for final assembly and what portion of the overall vehicle cost does this represent.
//dan.
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Somehow I don't see them answering hard questions like that outside of a planned interview or an email. You try dropping a rep a line?
graham
Active Member
You might be surprised. Many of the Tesla folks I know are very forthcoming when they know the answer. Of course sometimes they ask that you not post the information publicly.
OK I drove the Roadster today and here is what I have to say about it .....
WOW !!!! :biggrin:
Enough said right !?!?!?
Seriously though it was amazing. I have riden in it before but it was totally different driving it. It was fast and responsive and well heeled. More than I expected from it. Way too expensive and impractical for me but a VERY nice car all the same.
I did find out a couple little details about the Model S but nothing earth shattering. As usual the staff was very forthcoming with any info they could divulge. Ask and you shall receive is a good thing in my book.
First on the Chassis. No real progress. Still in CAD and not even a reality yet but they are definately using their design and not another already built chassis.
Second on the batteries. The batteries that are in the current Model S are the same ones that are in the Roadster but they are reconfigured. In the Roadster all of the modules are stacked side by side like on a book shelf. Model S uses the same modules but they are laying flat on the floor rather than standing side by side. Nothing earth shattering there I suppose. The current car does not have the 300 mile pack in it yet just a Roadster pack.
There will be no release of interior options and pricing until close to the 3rd 1/4 of 2011 when people will be locking in their orders.
No new news on the loans yet .... but soon
we hope ....
No comment on whether or not the Model S is being worked on prior to the obtaining of the loans. Research is definately being done but no comment on building a new car or an EP.
And I was told that the upgrade to the 300 mile pack will probably be in the $5-15K range but nothing definate on that number it is obviously constantly moving.
WOW !!!! :biggrin:
Enough said right !?!?!?
Seriously though it was amazing. I have riden in it before but it was totally different driving it. It was fast and responsive and well heeled. More than I expected from it. Way too expensive and impractical for me but a VERY nice car all the same.
I did find out a couple little details about the Model S but nothing earth shattering. As usual the staff was very forthcoming with any info they could divulge. Ask and you shall receive is a good thing in my book.
First on the Chassis. No real progress. Still in CAD and not even a reality yet but they are definately using their design and not another already built chassis.
Second on the batteries. The batteries that are in the current Model S are the same ones that are in the Roadster but they are reconfigured. In the Roadster all of the modules are stacked side by side like on a book shelf. Model S uses the same modules but they are laying flat on the floor rather than standing side by side. Nothing earth shattering there I suppose. The current car does not have the 300 mile pack in it yet just a Roadster pack.
There will be no release of interior options and pricing until close to the 3rd 1/4 of 2011 when people will be locking in their orders.
No new news on the loans yet .... but soon
we hope ....No comment on whether or not the Model S is being worked on prior to the obtaining of the loans. Research is definately being done but no comment on building a new car or an EP.
And I was told that the upgrade to the 300 mile pack will probably be in the $5-15K range but nothing definate on that number it is obviously constantly moving.
5-15k certainly isn't bad. What I wonder is:
#1 do the signature series get this standard
#2 how will the weight affect the handling
#1 do the signature series get this standard
#2 how will the weight affect the handling
graham
Active Member
I believe they have stated that the Signature Series will basically have every option including the large battery pack.
I would be very surprised if the larger pack was as little as only $5k more based on the information we have so far. But I do love surprises - if they can pull that off, I would be very happy.
When they said there would be no exact pricing before people started locking in options. Does that also include European prices ? I do hope we'll get a similar price to the $57490(as in early preliminary price) for Europe as well.
Cobos
Cobos
30 kwhs costs about $10,000 right now wholesale. The differences will be minor for different chemistry. So whatever the difference in kwhs between 160 miles, 230 miles and 300 miles, you can use that basic estimate of 30 kwhs for $10,000 to approximate what it costs Tesla.
Now Tesla may decide to charge more than their cost. That is perfectly rational.
THe hifference between 160 miles and 230 miles is going to be about $7,000 by my guess. Maybe another $7,000 to get 300 miles.
Or course, prices are dropping. Two years ago it was $1.50/Ah to buy LiFePO4 in bulk. Now it is fairly easy to get them at $1.20/Ah. I know that Tesla uses a different chemistry, but they all have to compete with each other and will all have the same approximate price declines.
The big advantage for Europe is the tax breaks for EVs. I think Denmark has something like a 100% tax on ICE vehicles. But 0% on an electric vehicle.
Some of the other countries are moving to a similar model. All of a sudden a Tesla Model S is competitive on price with a Toyota Camry.
Well I know.. but it's not actually tax breaks. The price is just lower, it doesn't touch your taxes at all.
And I know the Model S got a big price incentive here in Norway that's why I can realistically consider buying the car and is a big part of the pull for me.
With todays dollar the Model S costs $57490 or 385 000NOK
Basic trim Avensis 1.6L (we have the Toyota Avensis not the Camry) costs 283 000NOK and basic trim Lexus GS 300 Luxury costs 916 900NOK (Lexus only sells IS, GS and LS here in Norway it seems)
while a basic trim BMW 520i costs 465 200NOK
So yes the Model S should be very price competitive any similarily performing car and beat the entry model for most premium brands. Though not the basic models of cars like the Toyota Avensis. Though as you move up the engine tree for the Avensis you do pass the 390k NOK mark. The most expensive Avensis in Executive trim and 2.2 D-CAT diesel engine cost 451 400 with a 6spd manual.
But as you can see there is a big difference if the price will be around $50000 or $57500. At about $45000 the Model S would be cheapest new car you could buy in that size in Norway. Hence why I'm so anxious to know anything about European pricing.
Cobos
And I know the Model S got a big price incentive here in Norway that's why I can realistically consider buying the car and is a big part of the pull for me.
With todays dollar the Model S costs $57490 or 385 000NOK
Basic trim Avensis 1.6L (we have the Toyota Avensis not the Camry) costs 283 000NOK and basic trim Lexus GS 300 Luxury costs 916 900NOK (Lexus only sells IS, GS and LS here in Norway it seems)
while a basic trim BMW 520i costs 465 200NOK
So yes the Model S should be very price competitive any similarily performing car and beat the entry model for most premium brands. Though not the basic models of cars like the Toyota Avensis. Though as you move up the engine tree for the Avensis you do pass the 390k NOK mark. The most expensive Avensis in Executive trim and 2.2 D-CAT diesel engine cost 451 400 with a 6spd manual.
But as you can see there is a big difference if the price will be around $50000 or $57500. At about $45000 the Model S would be cheapest new car you could buy in that size in Norway. Hence why I'm so anxious to know anything about European pricing.
Cobos
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